***** Kang (The Conqueror) *****

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  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @DrClever I didn't know about the countdown "bug" to send them away. I would expect an error message to pop up.

    Stun is the universal antidote to most poisons in the game. So, one can always stun.

  • ArchusMonk
    ArchusMonk Posts: 185 Tile Toppler
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    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    If people want to use a slow team on a non-repeatable node on a single enemy, let them.

    I'm not talking about from player perspective but Devs. If I was a programmer and my mini Boss is defeated without one move even needed then I would be embarrassed myself. Perhaps they don't care, I don't know but I would.

    I understand your bigger picture point, but I don’t understand why you’re worried about the specific node in question. Even when I was punching up, every “boss node” was a joke. I would sometimes struggle with the CN or 5e, but never these mini-bosses. I never considered them to be a challenge - just free rewards for completing 1 complete circuit of the map. Your argument would hold more weight if you were concerned about how Kang is trivializing CN’s. I save several minutes of time using a Kang team on CN’s. I don’t even use Kang on the mini-boss because it doesn’t save me any time over my standard pick 3 PVE team.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,089 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I have a feeling Kang will work on Kaecilius the first time he shows up. Gonna guess he'll work on puzzle gauntlet too.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Is Kang a threat on pvp? If he manages to send away one of your characters, yes he is a threat for making you lose some turns. But no more than the chahulk team.
    AI never will save 18 blues in order to win the player.
    And boss events can be defeated even by 3* characters.
    Before collecting 9 blues a boss event can be slaughtered by 5s.
    CNs are not a "challenge" anymore, even more if it's a challenge of 3
    characters buffed, or one 5* and 2 goons.
    The whole PvE content needs a major overhaul on difficulty levels and on more characters diversity and on bigger numbers of pves, imo.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,758 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @ArchusMonk said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    If people want to use a slow team on a non-repeatable node on a single enemy, let them.

    I'm not talking about from player perspective but Devs. If I was a programmer and my mini Boss is defeated without one move even needed then I would be embarrassed myself. Perhaps they don't care, I don't know but I would.

    I understand your bigger picture point, but I don’t understand why you’re worried about the specific node in question. Even when I was punching up, every “boss node” was a joke. I would sometimes struggle with the CN or 5e, but never these mini-bosses. I never considered them to be a challenge - just free rewards for completing 1 complete circuit of the map. Your argument would hold more weight if you were concerned about how Kang is trivializing CN’s. I save several minutes of time using a Kang team on CN’s. I don’t even use Kang on the mini-boss because it doesn’t save me any time over my standard pick 3 PVE team.

    That was just an example from yesterday's play tha jumped out at me - of course he makes CN pointless also. He trivialises everything. I also had my first 3* Kang appear in a red on PvP. So it isn't even just the 5 version.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    When the dev increases the difficulty levels, players are going to cry. :D

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @HoundofShadow said:
    When the dev increases the difficulty levels, players are going to cry. :D

    Welcome back, dear Strawman.
    We've missed you.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,758 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Actually it seems to me that the obvious counter to Kang's away power (and airbourne/stun) is one of the choices in the new character fan favourite poll thingy. Multiple Man - send him away and he makes a duplicate that replaces his displaced self until the original returns. Actually I think the poll closed yesterday so we might find out the winner soon.

  • Scofie
    Scofie GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,213 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @DAZ0273 said:

    @ArchusMonk said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    If people want to use a slow team on a non-repeatable node on a single enemy, let them.

    I'm not talking about from player perspective but Devs. If I was a programmer and my mini Boss is defeated without one move even needed then I would be embarrassed myself. Perhaps they don't care, I don't know but I would.

    I understand your bigger picture point, but I don’t understand why you’re worried about the specific node in question. Even when I was punching up, every “boss node” was a joke. I would sometimes struggle with the CN or 5e, but never these mini-bosses. I never considered them to be a challenge - just free rewards for completing 1 complete circuit of the map. Your argument would hold more weight if you were concerned about how Kang is trivializing CN’s. I save several minutes of time using a Kang team on CN’s. I don’t even use Kang on the mini-boss because it doesn’t save me any time over my standard pick 3 PVE team.

    That was just an example from yesterday's play tha jumped out at me - of course he makes CN pointless also. He trivialises everything. I also had my first 3* Kang appear in a red on PvP. So it isn't even just the 5 version.

    I use the 3* version in PvE because I've only got 2 blue covers for the 5* so far. CN competed 3 times in about 2 mins, including one retreat. HE died on the last run but had enough to win with just IM40 and 3Kang when the tiles expired. And I normally hate that CN.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,758 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Scofie said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @ArchusMonk said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    @Bowgentle said:
    If people want to use a slow team on a non-repeatable node on a single enemy, let them.

    I'm not talking about from player perspective but Devs. If I was a programmer and my mini Boss is defeated without one move even needed then I would be embarrassed myself. Perhaps they don't care, I don't know but I would.

    I understand your bigger picture point, but I don’t understand why you’re worried about the specific node in question. Even when I was punching up, every “boss node” was a joke. I would sometimes struggle with the CN or 5e, but never these mini-bosses. I never considered them to be a challenge - just free rewards for completing 1 complete circuit of the map. Your argument would hold more weight if you were concerned about how Kang is trivializing CN’s. I save several minutes of time using a Kang team on CN’s. I don’t even use Kang on the mini-boss because it doesn’t save me any time over my standard pick 3 PVE team.

    That was just an example from yesterday's play tha jumped out at me - of course he makes CN pointless also. He trivialises everything. I also had my first 3* Kang appear in a red on PvP. So it isn't even just the 5 version.

    I use the 3* version in PvE because I've only got 2 blue covers for the 5* so far. CN competed 3 times in about 2 mins, including one retreat. HE died on the last run but had enough to win with just IM40 and 3Kang when the tiles expired. And I normally hate that CN.

    Yup. The players are the winners so it is hard to really bang any drums or light any fires. Will the Devs remain content with this? No idea. They have let Winfinite teams (old Devs and new) exist although none are as fast as this (and getting faster in the Fun Team Thread!) Guess we wait and see. In the meantime might as well enjoy.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,730 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bowgentle said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    When the dev increases the difficulty levels, players are going to cry. :D

    Welcome back, dear Strawman.
    We've missed you.

    Is he wrong though? If the time to clear went up from 20 minutes to 40 because they added health and match damage to a rebalanced CL10 you can bet there would be a lot of rage.

    I personally would welcome it, the current CL10 becoming 9 and 10 being harder with slightly better rewards for my time. But I’d also welcome one node on the last day that scaled infinitely so you had to use as much of your roster as possible and find ways to keep trying to clear it.

    Or they could just make CL10 much harder and reduce the required clears by one. I think though people have played so long on auto pilot it wouldn’t be welcomed without a massive rewards increase.

  • captainheath
    captainheath Posts: 243 Tile Toppler
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    @Tony_Foot said:

    @Bowgentle said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    When the dev increases the difficulty levels, players are going to cry. :D

    Welcome back, dear Strawman.
    We've missed you.

    Is he wrong though? If the time to clear went up from 20 minutes to 40 because they added health and match damage to a rebalanced CL10 you can bet there would be a lot of rage.

    I personally would welcome it, the current CL10 becoming 9 and 10 being harder with slightly better rewards for my time. But I’d also welcome one node on the last day that scaled infinitely so you had to use as much of your roster as possible and find ways to keep trying to clear it.

    Or they could just make CL10 much harder and reduce the required clears by one. I think though people have played so long on auto pilot it wouldn’t be welcomed without a massive rewards increase.

    I think you could even change the current CL10 to like CL7 and add three tiers.

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I mean the easiest way to make PVE harder is to finally run Simulator again.
    I don't know why that was shelved, it was the only PVE with challenging nodes.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023
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    We have the first run of EotS coming up which will need brand new Challenge and 5* nodes and a new Boss event, so I guess we can see if the Devs have any plans to shake things up. We don't even know what the reward structure is going to look like, so next week will be interesting.

    Edit: Oh and it isn't beyond reason to suspect Kang may be the new Boss.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @DAZ0273 said:

    Edit: Oh and it isn't beyond reason to suspect Kang may be the new Boss.

    As if it was a team of thanos galactus and abraxas. The final outcome will be another easy boss, annoying to the most.
    They didn't repeat heroic again, because of the complaints and/or data tracked.
    I've already played 2 gacha games (or freemium if it's easier to call them), running for many years and having plenty of options more for endgamers.

  • Sekilicious
    Sekilicious Posts: 1,766 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Tony_Foot said:
    Or they could just make CL10 much harder and reduce the required clears by one. I think though people have played so long on auto pilot it wouldn’t be welcomed without a massive rewards increase.

    I am on board with making PvE harder but take less time. I disagree with Hound that most people would vent at the difficulty (though every thread about the puzzle gauntlet being unplayable proves that I am the one incorrect on this). Even with the dreaded immortal team it has been pointed out a few times it isn't about difficulty. It is the number of times we have to grind through difficult nodes to get rewards.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,089 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023
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    @Tony_Foot said:

    @Bowgentle said:

    @HoundofShadow said:
    When the dev increases the difficulty levels, players are going to cry. :D

    Welcome back, dear Strawman.
    We've missed you.

    Is he wrong though? If the time to clear went up from 20 minutes to 40 because they added health and match damage to a rebalanced CL10 you can bet there would be a lot of rage.

    I personally would welcome it, the current CL10 becoming 9 and 10 being harder with slightly better rewards for my time. But I’d also welcome one node on the last day that scaled infinitely so you had to use as much of your roster as possible and find ways to keep trying to clear it.

    Or they could just make CL10 much harder and reduce the required clears by one. I think though people have played so long on auto pilot it wouldn’t be welcomed without a massive rewards increase.

    The other thing they could do is give us an option. Create a CL10.5 that's way harder with fewer clears, with the same rewards as CL10. Let players choose which one they want, but make sure both options are equal.

    Edit, 5 seconds after posting: the problem with this is that the power level has gotten to the point that they cannot make difficult fights. Think about it -- even before Kang, we have plenty of combos that can win 100% of the time against enemies of infinite level with minimal thought.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Making nodes much harder by also making the AI smarter has been my suggestion for the past couple years, and it includes reduction in the number of clears and grinds needed.

    Unfortunately, we've reached a state where players want to feel that they are beating "challenging" nodes, where in fact, the difficulty level is medium at best. These are the list of events I remember that received some hate and they were challenging:

    1) Original Fight for Wakanda
    2) Places of Powers (because the dev didn't reveal the details on how to maximise the best rewards. Instead, the players have to work together to figure out the way)
    3) Boss events with limited character selections (BCS)

    Players expect great rewards for beating "challenging" nodes. Let's be honest, even if the dev increases the difficulty for scl 10, players will ask the dev to increase the buff level by 200-300 levels, and we'll be back to the same old request of how the "buffed" SCL 10 are not challenging.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,758 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bad said:

    @DAZ0273 said:

    Edit: Oh and it isn't beyond reason to suspect Kang may be the new Boss.

    As if it was a team of thanos galactus and abraxas. The final outcome will be another easy boss, annoying to the most.
    They didn't repeat heroic again, because of the complaints and/or data tracked.
    I've already played 2 gacha games (or freemium if it's easier to call them), running for many years and having plenty of options more for endgamers.

    If it is Kang I would expect maybe some sort of countdown dynamic that can send a character away and perhaps if all get sent away Kang wins type thing. I doubt it will be hard but assume Kang himself would at least be immune to the away status.

    No idea though, pure speculation.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,089 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @Bowgentle said:
    I mean the easiest way to make PVE harder is to finally run Simulator again.
    I don't know why that was shelved, it was the only PVE with challenging nodes.

    It's almost certainly due to their engagement metrics. Lower tier players just didn't play Simulator at all -- even in CL10 there were way fewer brackets that filled much more slowly. Always remember that we don't matter, the devs are concerned with the 95%, not us (the top 5%).