***** Kang (The Conqueror) *****

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Comments

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    They'll retain their top spots, but they'll have to work harder to do so in PvE because a lot more players will be able to put up competitive times.

    In PvP, their teams will be much more easily beatable, and potentially they'll be losing to some lower tier teams now too. They won't be able to float forever with (mostly) impunity the way they can now.

    This sounds relatively tame but is actually a complete disaster when your expectation is to trivially win everything forever.

  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,965 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    @entrailbucket said:
    They'll retain their top spots, but they'll have to work harder to do so in PvE because a lot more players will be able to put up competitive times.

    In PvP, their teams will be much more easily beatable, and potentially they'll be losing to some lower tier teams now too. They won't be able to float forever with (mostly) impunity the way they can now.

    This sounds relatively tame but is actually a complete disaster when your expectation is to trivially win everything forever.

    The people just want to win everything forever unchallenged is a pretty big strawman. Unless I missed people who actually claimed that.

    The issue most people have isn’t that there is a Chasm counter. The counters are
    1- You can keep AP
    2- (When patched) you can perma-down an Immortal Bro by sending the other away.

    People don’t have issues with this character disrupting their free shields (at least I haven’t seen that).

    Their issue is that along with the counters above, they gave Kang an alternate win condition. Essentially a 27 AP “whales” that gets 9 AP cheaper with each character that is downed. That’s the real issue. I ask what the problem with that is because 3* players aren’t really going to be killing 5* teams left and right like that. The match damage alone would kill them. And yes, PVE scores may be a bit tighter, but I don’t see any 3* players taking those top spots.

    Faster grinds are a QOL improvement for everyone and those who grind the best will take the top spots like always. I think we need to let this play out before the sky is falling.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    Yeah, but nobody's going to show up and say "I believe it is my divine right to easily take first place rewards and float for days with no shield," though.

    All we can do is wait and see. Things may change or they may not. There haven't been a ton of complaints here yet anyway, and I'm not plugged into the optimizer Line chats so who knows what they're up to.

    I'd say to watch who complains, though, and read a bit into what they're complaining about. The attitude I'm describing certainly exists.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:
    When people asked for a counter to Scarlet Witch, they didn't request an immortal guy who could absorb infinite damage and keep resurrecting forever.

    When people asked for a counter to Hulk, they didn't demand a character who also hard-countered cascades and attack tiles.

    When you continually escalate the overall power level to counter each previous overpowered guy, you're going to hit auto-win status eventually. This is what happens when you refuse to fix your mistakes.

    Ignoring the fact that this is a different dev team, I completely disagree with your conclusion. Take away the auto-win and Kang is basically perfect.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    I think I was agreeing with all this?

    There have only been a couple "nerf Kang" posts so far, and they haven't really argued much of anything. I did recognize them though, and made some guesses.

    Anyway I probably shouldn't have speculated about what their arguments would be, at least not until they made them.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards

    @Borstock said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    When people asked for a counter to Scarlet Witch, they didn't request an immortal guy who could absorb infinite damage and keep resurrecting forever.

    When people asked for a counter to Hulk, they didn't demand a character who also hard-countered cascades and attack tiles.

    When you continually escalate the overall power level to counter each previous overpowered guy, you're going to hit auto-win status eventually. This is what happens when you refuse to fix your mistakes.

    Ignoring the fact that this is a different dev team, I completely disagree with your conclusion. Take away the auto-win and Kang is basically perfect.

    You think they can keep pushing the power level forever? How? You're going to run out of design space eventually.

    Anyway, Chasm/Hulk is a mindless auto-win, SW/Colossus is a mindless auto-win, so why shouldn't all 3* players get their own mindless auto-win? Seems fair to me.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards

    Kang will be a piece of cake on defense? I think many of you are only focusing on 9 blues and away.
    But he's got a super cheap black hitting like a truck, and that AP can't be drained so the danger comes in black and blue.
    Paired with SW, there would be pain.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Has the dev said anything about nerfing Kang's blue in discord yet? Someone (Tony_Foot?) has verified that 5* Wasp rework won't counter Kang.

    And you don't need 5* Hawkeye for this to work. The situations where it's difficult for Kang team to work is where there are Carbage, Kitty, Dr Strange, Kraven/Carnage and strong enemy attack tiles on the board.

    And Kang Team still can't beat 672 Okoye or other boosted meta. I'm still getting booted out of T20 when all these metas are boosted.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,820 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    The only communication we've had is that they're "addressing" the interaction with the immortal guys as "high priority."

    Edit: didn't mean to say I doubt their priorities or their addressing! What I meant was, they didn't say what specifically they'd be fixing or when.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards

    Update is out and and they have fixed the order of Chasm's ap destruction. Instead of his ap destruction taking place in between player's passive and countdownx of cd/repeater, it's happening before player's passive.

  • fight4thedream
    fight4thedream GLOBAL_MODERATORS Posts: 1,973 Chairperson of the Boards

    Mod note: Removed a couple of inappropriate posts. Please keep the discussion civil and on topic. If you regularly find a particular user's comments to be objectionable, we recommend using the Ignore List function which can be found in the Edit Profile section of your account. Thank you.

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,811 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Has the dev said anything about nerfing Kang's blue in discord yet? Someone (Tony_Foot?) has verified that 5* Wasp rework won't counter Kang.

    No I said or should have said the rework isn’t to combat chasm.

  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,733 Chairperson of the Boards

    @entrailbucket said:

    @Borstock said:

    @entrailbucket said:
    When people asked for a counter to Scarlet Witch, they didn't request an immortal guy who could absorb infinite damage and keep resurrecting forever.

    When people asked for a counter to Hulk, they didn't demand a character who also hard-countered cascades and attack tiles.

    When you continually escalate the overall power level to counter each previous overpowered guy, you're going to hit auto-win status eventually. This is what happens when you refuse to fix your mistakes.

    Ignoring the fact that this is a different dev team, I completely disagree with your conclusion. Take away the auto-win and Kang is basically perfect.

    You think they can keep pushing the power level forever? How? You're going to run out of design space eventually.

    Anyway, Chasm/Hulk is a mindless auto-win, SW/Colossus is a mindless auto-win, so why shouldn't all 3* players get their own mindless auto-win? Seems fair to me.

    You're not pushing power levels by having a counter that is also beatable by other teams. That's your narrative.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,274 Chairperson of the Boards

    @HoundofShadow said:
    Update is out and and they have fixed the order of Chasm's ap destruction. Instead of his ap destruction taking place in between player's passive and countdownx of cd/repeater, it's happening before player's passive.

    I'm being a bit thick today - what does this mean exactly?

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    Don't worry, I don't understand the difference either.
    I also have no idea what this means in practical terms.

  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited February 2023

    It depends on your team composition. For example, you are using Arcade and 1/2 Thor is tanking red/green/yellow. You end the match with Arcade being in front. On your next turn and before this fix was available, 1/2 Thor destroys tiles and ends up tanking due to matching red/yellow/green. Next, Chasm will destroy aps and deal damage to Thor due to the order of interaction.

    Assuming the same scenario above but with this fix out, Chasm will destroy aps and then deal damage to Arcade, followed by 1/2 Thor destroying tiles.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,274 Chairperson of the Boards

    So it just changes the order in which Chasm ruins the game for me?

  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards

    I mean it's not a rework, he just functions now like he's supposed to.

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