***** Hit Monkey (E.D.I. Suit) *****

roderic1

5* Gorgon finally? Maybe rerelease Enemy of the State as well?

Borstock

No meta demands their hard counter be good on defense, too.
At first glance, I think I like this kit. I'll have to see it in action, but if it works against ChaHulk the way it looks like it should, then I have to say I'm happy.

HoundofShadow

I just noticed something. Since both iHulk and Chasm damage themselves, does it mean they will also automatically down themselves once they reach <15% because it reads "any damage"?

4* Deathlok is the best pick-2 if you're playing for wins and don't care about defense. He feeds at least 1 purple and 1 red each turn and he puts Chasm on a loop by forcing him to target only purple ap every single turn. On top of that, he reduces target damage by 40% and AoE by 25%. This character also counters iHulk by turning green basic tile to purple or red, so you won't really need Electro.

With Deathlok+this, you target iHulk first since his hp is really low (40-50k). This character's average match damage is about 3.8k. his red is likely to deal 15-18k damage. By the time you hit 7 red aps, iHulk would likely to be left with ~15k hp. Then, down essential. By then, Chasm wouldn't have much hp left and you can fire red again.

IrisRyu

I’m very curious to see how the red passive works in practice. It could be great, but I could also see it being an unintended boon for Chasm if it accelerates his revive/stun mechanic.

I’m not sure this one is a meta changer. At 63K health, whoever this is, ain’t lasting long against the 550 Chasms in my MMR. I get that there’s damage mitigation, but that hasn’t helped Colossus to break through Chulk (unless similarly max champed). Genuine question without an answer, but what percentage of players have a hoard large enough to make this character viable in the face of the many max champed Hulkgasms out there?

Borstock

@IrisRyu said:
I’m very curious to see how the red passive works in practice. It could be great, but I could also see it being an unintended boon for Chasm if it accelerates his revive/stun mechanic.

I’m not sure this one is a meta changer. At 63K health, whoever this is, ain’t lasting long against the 550 Chasms in my MMR. I get that there’s damage mitigation, but that hasn’t helped Colossus to break through Chulk (unless similarly max champed). Genuine question without an answer, but what percentage of players have a hoard large enough to make this character viable in the face of the many max champed Hulkgasms out there?

Meta counters don't need to be viable against 550's unless they are also max-champed (or close). Someone who hoarded for a 550 Chasm deserves to have an advantage that isn't stopped cold by baby champs. It's unfair to ask for that.

IrisRyu

Sorry, if my original question was ambiguous, but I wasn’t advocating that the new toon be a baby-champed God-killer. I’m just wondering if players will be able to get enough covers for this character to be a viable counter to the many max champed Chulks. The much requested counter is here (again), but can players get enough covers for this one to breakthrough the existing meta? This toon looks pretty flimsy at lower levels and I’m not seeing a lot of potential to punch up. Coming so quickly on the heels of some popular releases, I’m not sure this one will stop the Chasm complaints at the higher levels of PVP play. We shall see!

acescracked

I'm guessing Hit-Monkey since there is a new animated show.

Sekilicious

It was noted on Reddit that this counter will not impact the 550s much as very few have the hoard required to get it to that level. Ya know, because they already spent it on the Chasm, Thor, Kamala trio. If it is effective then it will impact the baby champed meta the most.

However, I think it does have an outside chance for helping some as the red passive states:

‘Deals 10% increased damage to AFF4, and any damage dealt to AFF4 automatically downs them if they have less than 15% health.’

I think a few who spent their hoard on Chasm also have Wanda at a high level. Wanda, Colossus, Knull was the last time the veteran hoarders spent to get to 550, after all. If AFF4 refers to Chasm then this should give Wanda’s repeater 5 charges on turn 2 (AoE + match + Chasm passive) meaning iHulk becomes a detriment to the Immortal bros. The 550 Wandas will only need this character on the team to make quick work of even a 550 Chasm. If AFF4 refers to iHulk then it will be slower, but Chasm isn’t much of a deterrent at all on his own, unless at 550 of course. It will be interesting to see the reveal and what this character can do in practice.

IrisRyu

@Sekilicious said:
If it is effective then it will impact the baby champed meta the most.

So… another 20 pages in the ChaHulk Meta thread then? An interesting read shall continue!

Sekilicious

Yeah probably. Most nerf threads start when one of the characters is boosted so we might have a while before a new one starts. Unless, of course, the one we have up is still going on Chasm’s next boost turn.

Borstock

That there are so many 550 Chasms out there is a fault of the hoarding system, not the meta or the characters in question. Losing to 550's isn't losing to a meta at all. It's just losing to someone who hoarded better than you. I can live with that.

KGB

Are we sure that Red is going to make that great a counter?

The way I read the 2 part power is that only if firing the Red Active downs the target do they stay down. So match damage or damage from the purple power etc won't stop them from reviving.

The passive part helps because it gives a threshold where they are auto-downed (plus increased damage) but it still requires firing the active Red part to prevent the revive.

KGB

ThaRoadWarrior

Curious how hulk and she hulk behave when revived after this red by Lumbercap. Do they start from base damage again, or pick up where they left off?

GrimSkald

@KGB said:
Are we sure that Red is going to make that great a counter?

The way I read the 2 part power is that only if firing the Red Active downs the target do they stay down. So match damage or damage from the purple power etc won't stop them from reviving.

The passive part helps because it gives a threshold where they are auto-downed (plus increased damage) but it still requires firing the active Red part to prevent the revive.

KGB

Soft counters are always problematic, particularly when they're on active powers. Lumbercap and Archangel were both built to counter Gambit's passive AP generation and prevent him from using his powers. This was completely ineffective because a) neither of these characters were good enough to use on their own, and b) their counter wasn't strong enough to shut down Gambit appreciably.

Scarlet Witch is an excellent counter to iHulk (though not iHulk/Chasm for other reasons,) because she is pretty good on her own and really good at negating damage from AoEs.

Will this be a good counter to Chasm? Speaking my personal opinion, I doubt it. 7 ap is reasonably cheap, but on the expensive end when running against Chasm -- at least it's not this guy's strongest color, but it's still hard to gain AP against Chasm between board shenanigans and constant AP drain. IMHO I think they're going to have to tame down Chasm's AP drain sooner or later, but I'm willing to wait and see. We'll see how well he interacts with the Boosted 5* meta, so far it looks like the answer to that is "unreasonably well."

GrimSkald

Oh, Addendum - I'm not saying it's bad or even useless to introduce powers that counter the revive meta, I really like the idea in general and hope we see more like this in the future. What I'm saying is that Chasm's biggest issue is not his revive, but rather his AP drain, so while I think this character's perma-kill will help, I don't think it does anything against the underlying issue.

This looks like an interesting character, TBH, and I look forward to playing them. My guess was Nightcrawler based on "Multi-dexterous," but those powers don't look quite right for him. "Hero" affiliation rules out Spiral and Gorgon (at least Hand Gorgon, and he don't look like no Inhumans Gorgon.) At this point I'm a bit mystified.

KGB

@GrimSkald said:
Will this be a good counter to Chasm? Speaking my personal opinion, I doubt it. 7 ap is reasonably cheap, but on the expensive end when running against Chasm -- at least it's not this guy's strongest color, but it's still hard to gain AP against Chasm between board shenanigans and constant AP drain. IMHO I think they're going to have to tame down Chasm's AP drain sooner or later, but I'm willing to wait and see. We'll see how well he interacts with the Boosted 5* meta, so far it looks like the answer to that is "unreasonably well."

I agree with you, I don't think he will be a good counter at all for the reasons you mentioned.

I've been thinking for a while that the kind of character needed would have a Red similar to this characters Red (I'd change the Red to be that as long as the character did the damage there was no revival possible so match damage too would work) but would also have a 2nd power that punished AP destruction/theft via passive damage (say 500 @1 cover to 2500 @5 covers at L450 per AP stolen/destroy so Chasm could be damage 7500 a turn). That passive damage for AP theft would not only help ensure Chasm dies faster (eventually depleting his abyss tiles for revival) but also be useful against oodles of other character who destroy/steal AP.

KGB

axmoss

the title has one less star on the left.

Bad

Well, starting out the Logical Reasoning and Theorycrafting Factory:
AFF4 still needs to be know. However it will be chasm or the hulks. I think the hulks have more probabilities. It doesn't matter really much because without one the other won't win the battle.
If red's passive downs them forever it will be certainly a really hard counter, but if that's not the case still can save a lot of turns. And if Ihulk or chasm start being killed too fast they won't win the battle too.
7 red AP is good everytime you don't bring a character with red in strong power. That it will add to the passive downing them and then reviving with less health: danger. No matter what 7 AP is way way better than 12 and then waiting 3 turns more.
The chahulk team abuses on battle time. This character will cut off that certainly so this character will be great as a hard counter imo, on ofense (because the ally will down them if there is 15% health), and I think in defense versus 550 chasm too.
Why? Because chasm is hyper slow. Before killing a 63k character he very well could mess up and die. Also this character has invisibility, don't forget that.
This baby champed character activating invisibility could down any 550 chasm easily. And not chasm teams, too.
For these reasons the zombie meta will fear this character more than if it was Rick Grimes himself.
About the future: they released this character who is a fine hard counter on 5* and 3* tier, so they could release more reviving characters without fearing negative effects.

HoundofShadow

The release of this character is like putting the finishing line of a 200m race at the 100m mark.

If his red passive ability reads the following instead,

(PASSIVE) Deals 35% increased damage to AFF4, and any damage dealt to AFF4 automatically downs them if they have less than 15% health and they cannot return from downed through their own abilities.

It'd be like putting the finishing line of a 200m race at the 10m or 20m mark.

Bad

Also this character has up to 25% reduction damage on AFF5 so that 63k health could feel like 79k. My guess is against Villains.
And perfectly could be AFF4 red passive to be mutants or symbiotes i.e, depending on who is this character, that would be a really unexpected twist but in this case this character could be bullying others. My guess is 30% on this, though.