Any meta team whose best/only counter is itself is going to feel unhealthy. When that team is also one of the slowest we’ve seen and a merciless health sink, it’s a recipe for complaint.
Here is an example of a pick-3 team that can win but I wouldn’t say is a counter. Kind of hilarious for getting hulk down to 1 health point, this started out as a hulk/Crystal/Chasm team. It eventually flooded the board to the point chasm couldn’t keep up, which is another strategy that could work if there were a 5* who can do what Polaris does. Carbage is the closest who can do it passively.
My middle character there is Electro, probably would have worked better with somebody else some the yellow was only good for making one strike at a time.
There are a few counters to Chasm/iHulk in pick-2 already but they fail the speed and probably healthpacks test. Speed test is subjective. Personally, ~ 2 minutes win speed is fine for me. Some players probably expect 45-60 second matches. Riri/Dr Thor might fail the healthpack test.
Replace Polaris with Ultron/Apocalypse and it will be much better. Electro will take 50% fewer damage, instead of 25% fewer damage. Ultron will help to buff and create strike tiles, while Apocalypse will boost his permanent damage to over 10k.
@HoundofShadow said: After looking back at all the 5* meta in pvps since Thorokoye, I say players still don't understand the aftermath of the tyoe of team they want in pvps. If we were to use all the meta since Gambit (Bishop aside) as benchmarks, here are the typical attributes players want: 1) speed in finishing matches (Thorokoye) 2) 1-2 healthpack usage every few matches (Britty) or zero healthpack usage (Thorokoye) 3) Good scarecrow (iHulkoye due to sheer offense, or Britty or Colossus/Wanda due to defense) Players want to put up a team that can do 1, 2 and 3 in pvp, but they also hate teams that can do 1, 2 and 3. Thorokoye meta has 1&2 but players were complaining due to lack of variety. Then, we had Britty, who has 2&3. Complains: matches against them were slow. It was slow using them as well. IHulkoye had all three, and players wanted them nerfed because fighting against them means using healthpacks or having slow matches (Britty). Then, Wanda/Colossus came and they could also do all three. There were players who wanted them nerfed as well before weekly 5* boost was introduced. The complain was matches were slow and they require players to use healthpacks against them. If your criteria in dealing with meta like Chasm/iHulk need to have 2 & 3, then prepare for slow matches when you fight against them. Either that, prepare for healthpack usages if they were decimating iHulk/Chasm with speed. So far, there has not been a successful counter meta that doesn't invite complain for these past 4-5 years. ShangChi/America Chavez is probably our modern Thorokoye but given today's standard, not even players with 550 SC are using them because they are glass cannon.
@HoundofShadow said: After looking back at all the 5* meta in pvps since Thorokoye, I say players still don't understand the aftermath of the tyoe of team they want in pvps. If we were to use all the meta since Gambit (Bishop aside) as benchmarks, here are the typical attributes players want:
1) speed in finishing matches (Thorokoye) 2) 1-2 healthpack usage every few matches (Britty) or zero healthpack usage (Thorokoye) 3) Good scarecrow (iHulkoye due to sheer offense, or Britty or Colossus/Wanda due to defense)
Players want to put up a team that can do 1, 2 and 3 in pvp, but they also hate teams that can do 1, 2 and 3.
Thorokoye meta has 1&2 but players were complaining due to lack of variety.
Then, we had Britty, who has 2&3. Complains: matches against them were slow. It was slow using them as well.
IHulkoye had all three, and players wanted them nerfed because fighting against them means using healthpacks or having slow matches (Britty).
Then, Wanda/Colossus came and they could also do all three. There were players who wanted them nerfed as well before weekly 5* boost was introduced. The complain was matches were slow and they require players to use healthpacks against them.
If your criteria in dealing with meta like Chasm/iHulk need to have 2 & 3, then prepare for slow matches when you fight against them. Either that, prepare for healthpack usages if they were decimating iHulk/Chasm with speed.
So far, there has not been a successful counter meta that doesn't invite complain for these past 4-5 years. ShangChi/America Chavez is probably our modern Thorokoye but given today's standard, not even players with 550 SC are using them because they are glass cannon.
You left out the 5* god boost meta which was actually the healthiest I believe the meta has been in a very very long time; maybe ever. Prior to Chasm, I feel that they figured it out. Chasm broke that.
@HoundofShadow said: There are a few counters to Chasm/iHulk in pick-2 already but they fail the speed and probably healthpacks test. Speed test is subjective. Personally, ~ 2 minutes win speed is fine for me. Some players probably expect 45-60 second matches. Riri/Dr Thor might fail the healthpack test. Replace Polaris with Ultron/Apocalypse and it will be much better. Electro will take 50% fewer damage, instead of 25% fewer damage. Ultron will help to buff and create strike tiles, while Apocalypse will boost his permanent damage to over 10k.
@HoundofShadow said: There are a few counters to Chasm/iHulk in pick-2 already but they fail the speed and probably healthpacks test. Speed test is subjective. Personally, ~ 2 minutes win speed is fine for me. Some players probably expect 45-60 second matches. Riri/Dr Thor might fail the healthpack test.
The problem with Chasm counters more than any of the three things you listed is the “target test”. Does playing this team put a target on my back where I’m getting hit to the point I’m losing points faster than I gain them. And trust me, if you are playing anything other than Hulkgasm (and yes that includes a boosted Chasm/Crystal), I’m hitting you and not thinking twice about it. Last PVP I think I joined too late and people “figured it out” that unboosted Hulk is a better partner than boosted Crystal because that’s all I could find and had to hit only Hulkgasm for like my last 300 points. I don’t really play the PvP meta game (coordinating, using line, memorizing times to play optimally etc.). I just hit targets that look good and don’t look at the names. So I’m likely doing a ton wrong.
I look at pvp from a more pragmatic approach: how can I hit 1200 in the fewest wins possible? Variety is less of a priority to me. If I see 6X-7X, I hit. On the other side of the spectrum, there's at least 1 550 player who wants the dev to reduce 5* boost level by 70-80%. I'm not in Line, so I'm not sure what % of the 550 players in Line support that idea.
The thing about counter that also don't put a target on your back means that it's either slow to play against, or you use 1-2 healthpacks to take them down. I noticed a lot of 550 SC in SCL 10 when I went up to take a look recently. I guess it's due to them pulling for SC in vaults/stores. However, I don't recall seeing 550 SC in pvps. I've seen some other organic 550 meta like Okoye/Apocalypse/BRB being paired with other characters. SC actually pass speed and healthpack test but he's a glass cannon. In essence, the trade off is either slowing down of matches or causing heavy healthpack usage to deter multiple attacks in quick succession.
I have no problem hitting 1200 without relying on Hulkgasm in slice 1. It has always been the case that you will find limited targets due to joining late. It happened to me even when Chasm didn't exist back then. I assume joining late means joining with. 4 or fewer hours left. I think the differences could be due to different playstyles and personal comfort levels when it comes to risk appetite.
@HoundofShadow said: I look at pvp from a more pragmatic approach: how can I hit 1200 in the fewest wins possible? Variety is less of a priority to me. If I see 6X-7X, I hit. On the other side of the spectrum, there's at least 1 550 player who wants the dev to reduce 5* boost level by 70-80%. I'm not in Line, so I'm not sure what % of the 550 players in Line support that idea. The thing about counter that also don't put a target on your back means that it's either slow to play against, or you use 1-2 healthpacks to take them down. I noticed a lot of 550 SC in SCL 10 when I went up to take a look recently. I guess it's due to them pulling for SC in vaults/stores. However, I don't recall seeing 550 SC in pvps. I've seen some other organic 550 meta like Okoye/Apocalypse/BRB being paired with other characters. SC actually pass speed and healthpack test but he's a glass cannon. In essence, the trade off is either slowing down of matches or causing heavy healthpack usage to deter multiple attacks in quick succession. I have no problem hitting 1200 without relying on Hulkgasm in slice 1. It has always been the case that you will find limited targets due to joining late. It happened to me even when Chasm didn't exist back then. I assume joining late means joining with. 4 or fewer hours left. I think the differences could be due to different playstyles and personal comfort levels when it comes to risk appetite.
@HoundofShadow said: I look at pvp from a more pragmatic approach: how can I hit 1200 in the fewest wins possible? Variety is less of a priority to me. If I see 6X-7X, I hit. On the other side of the spectrum, there's at least 1 550 player who wants the dev to reduce 5* boost level by 70-80%. I'm not in Line, so I'm not sure what % of the 550 players in Line support that idea.
My “late” is under 24 hours. What non-hulkgasm teams are you using in pick-2 that don’t make you an instant target?
By the way I’m doing the chase wins/retal game this PVP and it’s so much nicer and the matches are insanely faster. Basically I joined at the beginning and beat seed teams with the loaner and 1* characters. Wait for retals from other 1-3* teams (because that’s all that can see me), then hit the retals with my loaner/1* widow/ 1* Spidey.
@Daredevil217 said: @HoundofShadow said: I look at pvp from a more pragmatic approach: how can I hit 1200 in the fewest wins possible? Variety is less of a priority to me. If I see 6X-7X, I hit. On the other side of the spectrum, there's at least 1 550 player who wants the dev to reduce 5* boost level by 70-80%. I'm not in Line, so I'm not sure what % of the 550 players in Line support that idea. The thing about counter that also don't put a target on your back means that it's either slow to play against, or you use 1-2 healthpacks to take them down. I noticed a lot of 550 SC in SCL 10 when I went up to take a look recently. I guess it's due to them pulling for SC in vaults/stores. However, I don't recall seeing 550 SC in pvps. I've seen some other organic 550 meta like Okoye/Apocalypse/BRB being paired with other characters. SC actually pass speed and healthpack test but he's a glass cannon. In essence, the trade off is either slowing down of matches or causing heavy healthpack usage to deter multiple attacks in quick succession. I have no problem hitting 1200 without relying on Hulkgasm in slice 1. It has always been the case that you will find limited targets due to joining late. It happened to me even when Chasm didn't exist back then. I assume joining late means joining with. 4 or fewer hours left. I think the differences could be due to different playstyles and personal comfort levels when it comes to risk appetite. My “late” is under 24 hours. What non-hulkgasm teams are you using in pick-2 that don’t make you an instant target? By the way I’m doing the chase wins/retal game this PVP and it’s so much nicer and the matches are insanely faster. Basically I joined at the beginning and beat seed teams with the loaner and 1* characters. Wait for retals from other 1-3* teams (because that’s all that can see me), then hit the retals with my loaner/1* widow/ 1* Spidey.
@Daredevil217 said:
I've tried that, but it takes a century to collect reds. Much faster to go for 1200. Or 3K, whatever your goal is.
Playing ~24 hour before pvp ends is considered plenty of time for me. In the previous pvp, I was using largely Chasm/Crystal + green/black match (+ yellow/red) damage boost because they are boosted. I also tried one other team mentioned: Chasm/Thanos. I hit 1200 in 25 wins, which includes 3 seed teams.
For the Riri pvp, I'll update later.
The abbreviation "hulkgasm" sounds quite bad, or quite obscene. Just saying. There is no team fighting chahulk which doesn't paints you a target on the back. So at a early climb they worth tasty points but after hitting 700 points, better to swicht to the slow zombie meta. That's one of the reasons why I don't bother to gain 1200 points anymore. And from I can see I'm not the only one lowering the point threshold.
Is it really that difficult to hit 1200 in slice 1 PvP? In the current Riri PvP, I've already hit 1200 in 22 wins. Majority of my team is Chasm/Crystal. My second team is Crystal +Thor + 4ap boosts (used not more than 3 times). I don't coordinate in Line and I don't shield hop. I'm not facing the kind of relentless attacks that others are facing despite my usage of teams that put target on my back. And I've not used Chasm/iHulk at all. If I've used iHulk/Chasm in Riri pvp, that might explain why no one attacks me.
I'm puzzled at the huge difference in pvp experience for Chasm boost weeks and I believe some are also playing in slice 1. If you are playing in other slices, such relentless attacks are expected.
I'd also like to know where that points dropoff is. Because Rags PVP was over 3k, and Riri looks like close to 4k.
I’m not facing relentless attacks, just finding myself in multi-minute battles that stabilize into never-wins that I then have to retreat from. 1200 points is possible, but SO utterly tedious to chase that I’ve been tapping out under 900 most of the week.
Man; I just queues up somebody that already has Riri at 459 lol; she is going to be everywhere.
I assume those multi minute battles are due to mirror matches? Crystal+Dr Thor didn't take long. ~2.5 minutes. I aoe stun them every 2 turns or so.
Correct, my Dr Thor isn’t that big, and seems to never make it out alive.
I think it’s wild that I’ve been floating at 940 with a loaner Riri in this event. So crazy; I wish chasm was fun to use.
Actually, you don't need big Dr Thor (mine is baby champed as well) because Crystal will be tanking most of her colours. The one who needs to survive first turn is loaner Riri. I had two consecutive round of bad luck where the AI got 5-6 green aps on their start of the game. AI Riri fire stun and my Riri went down. Then, I'll retreat and take 1-2 points loss, which is insignificant. Anyway, once Riri survived that first round, it will be: fire red followed by green. Prioritise matching green, then fire Riri's red when necessary. In the meantime, you would be collecting aps from cascades as well. Then stun and repeat. Then when the time is right, use Dr Thor's blue or red on Chasm until he hits certain health point that you feel is safe. Her damage by then would be deaing 30k or more each. Finally, use Dr Thor's yellow to down iHulk and on Chasm simulatenously.
The one thing I forget often is that green send Riri airborne, so I've to remind myself to fire her red before her green. To emphasise, I used +4 green/yellow/red ap boosts.
Oh, you are using Crystal/Thor? Maybe that’s the problem. I have a 1/1/1 rostered Riri, I could level her up to make it through start of battle.
@ThaRoadWarrior said: Oh, you are using Crystal/Thor? Maybe that’s the problem. I have a 1/1/1 rostered Riri, I could level her up to make it through start of battle.
Nobody cares about Riri, you'll get eaten alive if you're running anything but the immortal bros.
Crystal + Dr Thor + loaner Riri. Based on my experience, you need to have bad luck to have loaner Riri downed on their first turn. You need ~5 seconds after the match starts to know whether you need to retreat for this particular team.
Alternatively, there are still other non-Chasm/iHulk with high points popping up sometimes. Go for the low hanging fruit that's worth 7x points.
I'm not sure that "snipe grills" is great advice.