New UI Update: Gameboard
Comments
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I’m just giving insight into how it DOES work here in reality. You can choose to react to that information anyway you need to. It’s fine to want things to be different. But you can’t just wish things into being - if you want budget carved out for this kind of testing it has to come at the expense of something else is all I’m saying.0
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I always appreciate a good how the sausage is made reference. Thanks for the insight!ThaRoadWarrior said:I’m just giving insight into how it DOES work here in reality. You can choose to react to that information anyway you need to.3 -
I'm attempting to show that other industries do it differently, with what seems to be more success. May be worth the effort to get better?0
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I am saying that he is giving his professional feedback on the situation. You can disagree but keep it respectful. He acknowledges that maybe D3/Demi do things differently. I am saying maybe you should chill with the intensity of what were quite personal attacks against him.There are a few people on this thread who are sort of semi trolling about this whole thing, I will not name names. RoadWarrior is not one of them that I can see. Your "attack" on him was totally over the top. Anyway, we really should not let this all distract from the important feedback in this thread. Otherwise next time Fight turns up, he will be in business proper!The_Boogie said:
Are you saying he's not defending D3/Demi by saying "I work in the industry and what they do is the industry norm?" Take off your rose-colored glasses! You all deserve better. Heaven forbid somebody stands up and says that this "industry norm" is not good for the players by attempting to disprove the person saying it!DAZ0273 said:
But RoadWarrior has nothing to do with Demi/D3, he is just giving his feedback as a games professional. All this ire aimed at the wrong person! You might as well attack Kevin Fiege coz Justice League sucked harder than a Dyson. At least direct your anger in the right direction!The_Boogie said:
If you choose to push out large scale changes to your product without consulting ANYONE who uses that product on a regular basis, that is poor business practice, period. It's not personal.DAZ0273 said:
Not sure what you are achieving with these attacks on RoadWarrior? He is a solid citizen and no toady to the Devs. Obviously you can disagree on your professional experience but no need to get personal, eh?The_Boogie said:
Congratulations, you run a business that doesn't seem to care about it's customers. LOL this was supposed to be good defense of doing BAD QA testing!?ThaRoadWarrior said:I run a game studio that is not in any way affiliated with MPQ, I have first hand industry knowledge of how video game qa is done specifically, and what those roles are named and how they work. In the game industry, Functional Quality Assurance is doing what I said - making sure the game functions as designed (which is not the same as giving feedback on those designs). There are other sub disciplines like Localization QA, Certification QA, and so on. But the catch-all for this is just QA. But I’m not going to argue with your experience, you can be right if you need to be.
Additionally, to say that there isn't enough "budget" for user focus groups is insulting. There is at least one buy club a day from the biggest spenders in the game. That's $60,000 a month from a segment of about 3-400 players. Not to mention there was just an HP sale where there were multiple buy clubs running each day at $2,000 a pop. Also we have been told on numerous occasions that the amount of money spent by the random player on VIP or the occasional logan's loonies by FAR surpasses the revenue generated by these buy clubs. So what do you want to estimate the monthly revenue is? $150k a month? $200k a month? More?
So now I read you are guessing they have 4-5 employees on ~$2,000,000 of revenue annually. Even if half of that goes to overhead you are paying 4-5 people on average $200,000+?
To the last point - having a segment of your player base as advanced QA testers does not cost you real money if you pay them with in-game currency. I will allow that it costs perhaps a couple hours of one employee's time each release cycle to review the feedback from the testers - maybe more time for the devs to fix issues that are found.
Am i wrong in thinking its common sense to put out less products that work very well than it is to push out more products that cause problems?1 -
how dramatic are you going to be? What specifically was "way over the top"? Because I made a sarcastic comment about him not caring about his customers? Why are you hyping this up to be so much more than it is?DAZ0273 said:
I am saying that he is giving his professional feedback on the situation. You can disagree but keep it respectful. He acknowledges that maybe D3/Demi do things differently. I am saying maybe you should chill with the intensity of what were quite personal attacks against him.There are a few people on this thread who are sort of semi trolling about this whole thing, I will not name names. RoadWarrior is not one of them that I can see. Your "attack" on him was totally over the top. Anyway, we really should not let this all distract from the important feedback in this thread. Otherwise next time Fight turns up, he will be in business proper!The_Boogie said:
Are you saying he's not defending D3/Demi by saying "I work in the industry and what they do is the industry norm?" Take off your rose-colored glasses! You all deserve better. Heaven forbid somebody stands up and says that this "industry norm" is not good for the players by attempting to disprove the person saying it!DAZ0273 said:
But RoadWarrior has nothing to do with Demi/D3, he is just giving his feedback as a games professional. All this ire aimed at the wrong person! You might as well attack Kevin Fiege coz Justice League sucked harder than a Dyson. At least direct your anger in the right direction!The_Boogie said:
If you choose to push out large scale changes to your product without consulting ANYONE who uses that product on a regular basis, that is poor business practice, period. It's not personal.DAZ0273 said:
Not sure what you are achieving with these attacks on RoadWarrior? He is a solid citizen and no toady to the Devs. Obviously you can disagree on your professional experience but no need to get personal, eh?The_Boogie said:
Congratulations, you run a business that doesn't seem to care about it's customers. LOL this was supposed to be good defense of doing BAD QA testing!?ThaRoadWarrior said:I run a game studio that is not in any way affiliated with MPQ, I have first hand industry knowledge of how video game qa is done specifically, and what those roles are named and how they work. In the game industry, Functional Quality Assurance is doing what I said - making sure the game functions as designed (which is not the same as giving feedback on those designs). There are other sub disciplines like Localization QA, Certification QA, and so on. But the catch-all for this is just QA. But I’m not going to argue with your experience, you can be right if you need to be.
Additionally, to say that there isn't enough "budget" for user focus groups is insulting. There is at least one buy club a day from the biggest spenders in the game. That's $60,000 a month from a segment of about 3-400 players. Not to mention there was just an HP sale where there were multiple buy clubs running each day at $2,000 a pop. Also we have been told on numerous occasions that the amount of money spent by the random player on VIP or the occasional logan's loonies by FAR surpasses the revenue generated by these buy clubs. So what do you want to estimate the monthly revenue is? $150k a month? $200k a month? More?
So now I read you are guessing they have 4-5 employees on ~$2,000,000 of revenue annually. Even if half of that goes to overhead you are paying 4-5 people on average $200,000+?
To the last point - having a segment of your player base as advanced QA testers does not cost you real money if you pay them with in-game currency. I will allow that it costs perhaps a couple hours of one employee's time each release cycle to review the feedback from the testers - maybe more time for the devs to fix issues that are found.
Am i wrong in thinking its common sense to put out less products that work very well than it is to push out more products that cause problems?
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Lol, maybe go back and read some of your posts! Then tell us how any of this is gonna help? Then crack on with what matters.The_Boogie said:
how dramatic are you going to be? What specifically was "way over the top"? Because I made a sarcastic comment about him not caring about his customers? Why are you hyping this up to be so much more than it is?DAZ0273 said:
I am saying that he is giving his professional feedback on the situation. You can disagree but keep it respectful. He acknowledges that maybe D3/Demi do things differently. I am saying maybe you should chill with the intensity of what were quite personal attacks against him.There are a few people on this thread who are sort of semi trolling about this whole thing, I will not name names. RoadWarrior is not one of them that I can see. Your "attack" on him was totally over the top. Anyway, we really should not let this all distract from the important feedback in this thread. Otherwise next time Fight turns up, he will be in business proper!The_Boogie said:
Are you saying he's not defending D3/Demi by saying "I work in the industry and what they do is the industry norm?" Take off your rose-colored glasses! You all deserve better. Heaven forbid somebody stands up and says that this "industry norm" is not good for the players by attempting to disprove the person saying it!DAZ0273 said:
But RoadWarrior has nothing to do with Demi/D3, he is just giving his feedback as a games professional. All this ire aimed at the wrong person! You might as well attack Kevin Fiege coz Justice League sucked harder than a Dyson. At least direct your anger in the right direction!The_Boogie said:
If you choose to push out large scale changes to your product without consulting ANYONE who uses that product on a regular basis, that is poor business practice, period. It's not personal.DAZ0273 said:
Not sure what you are achieving with these attacks on RoadWarrior? He is a solid citizen and no toady to the Devs. Obviously you can disagree on your professional experience but no need to get personal, eh?The_Boogie said:
Congratulations, you run a business that doesn't seem to care about it's customers. LOL this was supposed to be good defense of doing BAD QA testing!?ThaRoadWarrior said:I run a game studio that is not in any way affiliated with MPQ, I have first hand industry knowledge of how video game qa is done specifically, and what those roles are named and how they work. In the game industry, Functional Quality Assurance is doing what I said - making sure the game functions as designed (which is not the same as giving feedback on those designs). There are other sub disciplines like Localization QA, Certification QA, and so on. But the catch-all for this is just QA. But I’m not going to argue with your experience, you can be right if you need to be.
Additionally, to say that there isn't enough "budget" for user focus groups is insulting. There is at least one buy club a day from the biggest spenders in the game. That's $60,000 a month from a segment of about 3-400 players. Not to mention there was just an HP sale where there were multiple buy clubs running each day at $2,000 a pop. Also we have been told on numerous occasions that the amount of money spent by the random player on VIP or the occasional logan's loonies by FAR surpasses the revenue generated by these buy clubs. So what do you want to estimate the monthly revenue is? $150k a month? $200k a month? More?
So now I read you are guessing they have 4-5 employees on ~$2,000,000 of revenue annually. Even if half of that goes to overhead you are paying 4-5 people on average $200,000+?
To the last point - having a segment of your player base as advanced QA testers does not cost you real money if you pay them with in-game currency. I will allow that it costs perhaps a couple hours of one employee's time each release cycle to review the feedback from the testers - maybe more time for the devs to fix issues that are found.
Am i wrong in thinking its common sense to put out less products that work very well than it is to push out more products that cause problems?0 -
That is not being specific.DAZ0273 said:
Lol, maybe go back and read some of your posts! Then tell us how any of this is gonna help? Then crack on with what matters.The_Boogie said:
how dramatic are you going to be? What specifically was "way over the top"? Because I made a sarcastic comment about him not caring about his customers? Why are you hyping this up to be so much more than it is?DAZ0273 said:
I am saying that he is giving his professional feedback on the situation. You can disagree but keep it respectful. He acknowledges that maybe D3/Demi do things differently. I am saying maybe you should chill with the intensity of what were quite personal attacks against him.There are a few people on this thread who are sort of semi trolling about this whole thing, I will not name names. RoadWarrior is not one of them that I can see. Your "attack" on him was totally over the top. Anyway, we really should not let this all distract from the important feedback in this thread. Otherwise next time Fight turns up, he will be in business proper!The_Boogie said:
Are you saying he's not defending D3/Demi by saying "I work in the industry and what they do is the industry norm?" Take off your rose-colored glasses! You all deserve better. Heaven forbid somebody stands up and says that this "industry norm" is not good for the players by attempting to disprove the person saying it!DAZ0273 said:
But RoadWarrior has nothing to do with Demi/D3, he is just giving his feedback as a games professional. All this ire aimed at the wrong person! You might as well attack Kevin Fiege coz Justice League sucked harder than a Dyson. At least direct your anger in the right direction!The_Boogie said:
If you choose to push out large scale changes to your product without consulting ANYONE who uses that product on a regular basis, that is poor business practice, period. It's not personal.DAZ0273 said:
Not sure what you are achieving with these attacks on RoadWarrior? He is a solid citizen and no toady to the Devs. Obviously you can disagree on your professional experience but no need to get personal, eh?The_Boogie said:
Congratulations, you run a business that doesn't seem to care about it's customers. LOL this was supposed to be good defense of doing BAD QA testing!?ThaRoadWarrior said:I run a game studio that is not in any way affiliated with MPQ, I have first hand industry knowledge of how video game qa is done specifically, and what those roles are named and how they work. In the game industry, Functional Quality Assurance is doing what I said - making sure the game functions as designed (which is not the same as giving feedback on those designs). There are other sub disciplines like Localization QA, Certification QA, and so on. But the catch-all for this is just QA. But I’m not going to argue with your experience, you can be right if you need to be.
Additionally, to say that there isn't enough "budget" for user focus groups is insulting. There is at least one buy club a day from the biggest spenders in the game. That's $60,000 a month from a segment of about 3-400 players. Not to mention there was just an HP sale where there were multiple buy clubs running each day at $2,000 a pop. Also we have been told on numerous occasions that the amount of money spent by the random player on VIP or the occasional logan's loonies by FAR surpasses the revenue generated by these buy clubs. So what do you want to estimate the monthly revenue is? $150k a month? $200k a month? More?
So now I read you are guessing they have 4-5 employees on ~$2,000,000 of revenue annually. Even if half of that goes to overhead you are paying 4-5 people on average $200,000+?
To the last point - having a segment of your player base as advanced QA testers does not cost you real money if you pay them with in-game currency. I will allow that it costs perhaps a couple hours of one employee's time each release cycle to review the feedback from the testers - maybe more time for the devs to fix issues that are found.
Am i wrong in thinking its common sense to put out less products that work very well than it is to push out more products that cause problems?0 -
Remember the time the purpose of this thread was to discuss what we liked or disliked about the UI changes? Man, that was cool.12
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Finishing the last PvE with the exact same score as the last time I played it , my placement went from 137th to 179th, so I don’t see any drop off in the player base and it appears to be even more competitive. Players are playing more and achieving higher scores . There will always be the large hater crowd in the forum , but even as a small child I had the basic common sense to know , if I rode the merry go round and i knew it made me nauseous , I DIDN’T RIDE IT! There were hundreds of other rides I could enjoy at the park without jeopardizing my health . I didn’t whine to the ride operator if he could please slow the ride to 1 mile an hour so I could enjoy it myself at the disappointment of every other person on the ride .-1
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I'm happy to drop it and move back to this. I just wanted to start a conversation about user QA testing, so hopefully something like this doesn't happen again.mbaren said:Remember the time the purpose of this thread was to discuss what we liked or disliked about the UI changes? Man, that was cool.
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How specific do you need? Why are you here? Is it to complain about a UI change and have it reversed or is it to complain about D3/Demi generally? Either is fine but you seem intent on Collateral Damage if somebody attempts to explain that maybe everything isn't black and white. You made assumptions/called out parties who could not give you the answer you sought because it has nothing to do with them and now seem to be on some clumsy Juggernaut charge through a thread where nearly everybody agrees this is all a bit tiny kitty.The_Boogie said:
That is not being specific.DAZ0273 said:
Lol, maybe go back and read some of your posts! Then tell us how any of this is gonna help? Then crack on with what matters.The_Boogie said:
how dramatic are you going to be? What specifically was "way over the top"? Because I made a sarcastic comment about him not caring about his customers? Why are you hyping this up to be so much more than it is?DAZ0273 said:
I am saying that he is giving his professional feedback on the situation. You can disagree but keep it respectful. He acknowledges that maybe D3/Demi do things differently. I am saying maybe you should chill with the intensity of what were quite personal attacks against him.There are a few people on this thread who are sort of semi trolling about this whole thing, I will not name names. RoadWarrior is not one of them that I can see. Your "attack" on him was totally over the top. Anyway, we really should not let this all distract from the important feedback in this thread. Otherwise next time Fight turns up, he will be in business proper!The_Boogie said:
Are you saying he's not defending D3/Demi by saying "I work in the industry and what they do is the industry norm?" Take off your rose-colored glasses! You all deserve better. Heaven forbid somebody stands up and says that this "industry norm" is not good for the players by attempting to disprove the person saying it!DAZ0273 said:
But RoadWarrior has nothing to do with Demi/D3, he is just giving his feedback as a games professional. All this ire aimed at the wrong person! You might as well attack Kevin Fiege coz Justice League sucked harder than a Dyson. At least direct your anger in the right direction!The_Boogie said:
If you choose to push out large scale changes to your product without consulting ANYONE who uses that product on a regular basis, that is poor business practice, period. It's not personal.DAZ0273 said:
Not sure what you are achieving with these attacks on RoadWarrior? He is a solid citizen and no toady to the Devs. Obviously you can disagree on your professional experience but no need to get personal, eh?The_Boogie said:
Congratulations, you run a business that doesn't seem to care about it's customers. LOL this was supposed to be good defense of doing BAD QA testing!?ThaRoadWarrior said:I run a game studio that is not in any way affiliated with MPQ, I have first hand industry knowledge of how video game qa is done specifically, and what those roles are named and how they work. In the game industry, Functional Quality Assurance is doing what I said - making sure the game functions as designed (which is not the same as giving feedback on those designs). There are other sub disciplines like Localization QA, Certification QA, and so on. But the catch-all for this is just QA. But I’m not going to argue with your experience, you can be right if you need to be.
Additionally, to say that there isn't enough "budget" for user focus groups is insulting. There is at least one buy club a day from the biggest spenders in the game. That's $60,000 a month from a segment of about 3-400 players. Not to mention there was just an HP sale where there were multiple buy clubs running each day at $2,000 a pop. Also we have been told on numerous occasions that the amount of money spent by the random player on VIP or the occasional logan's loonies by FAR surpasses the revenue generated by these buy clubs. So what do you want to estimate the monthly revenue is? $150k a month? $200k a month? More?
So now I read you are guessing they have 4-5 employees on ~$2,000,000 of revenue annually. Even if half of that goes to overhead you are paying 4-5 people on average $200,000+?
To the last point - having a segment of your player base as advanced QA testers does not cost you real money if you pay them with in-game currency. I will allow that it costs perhaps a couple hours of one employee's time each release cycle to review the feedback from the testers - maybe more time for the devs to fix issues that are found.
Am i wrong in thinking its common sense to put out less products that work very well than it is to push out more products that cause problems?
I mean...what are we even discussing here? Was this rollout pretty bad? Yeah but just because one poster tries to understand what might have gone wrong does not equate to a cheerleader event.
As I said, there have been some actual deliberate trolling in this thread but none of it relates to wherever the hell we are going with this0 -
So. I too work in an industry that does things “in a better way” in my opinion. However, we are backed by multiple billions of revenue that drive the corporation. Not to mention that what “works” for one type of business may not necessarily translate for another. I’ve made the mistake often of trying to translate my experience into how things should be run in other businesses and even with this game. The simple truth is, that’s all a waste of energy because we don’t have the proper information to make that determination.The_Boogie said:
I'm happy to drop it and move back to this. I just wanted to start a conversation about user QA testing, so hopefully something like this doesn't happen again.mbaren said:Remember the time the purpose of this thread was to discuss what we liked or disliked about the UI changes? Man, that was cool.It sure sounds like ThaRoadWarrior knows what he is talking about on the matter. Take it how you will, but grain of salt or dump truck full...it’s all the same in the end. D3/Demi is most certainly doing what they can to protect their bottom line and it is very evident a “fix” for this will be a priority.2 -
Its difficult to go against the Holy Rage Mode of the New-Found-Best-Community-Members-Game-Inquisitors with 20 posts atacking anyone.
I only hope when this issue will be fixed, you stay here providing feedback to try to make a better game like many of us we usually do, including roadwarrior.
I do think too this thread is toxic but like always when there is any change and it appears people seeming to enjoy the situation.
I have been playing my same amount of hours without any problem. I dont have any type of colorblind but I am confident the issue will be fixed. It is needed time for that.
Lets be patient, rational and mature.0 -
I think today can give a very important further feedback on this. I don't know about others but my Alliance 100% thrives around Boss Events - if this impacts that then we are driving at the very essence of having an Alliance. It was the epitome of crazy to roll this out and then potentially bugger up an event that needs mass player participation. Not to be conspirital but those oldy 4* rewards look a bit like "Never mind, it was only Elektra" safety net...0
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Even though I may just be a broccoli, I’m just mentioning that there are alive human people on the other side of this game, almost certainly less of them and working harder than they get credit for, who told us (eventually) they were evaluating their next steps. We know there is no full time community manager anymore, so we will just hear what we hear when we hear it. I am super sympathetic to those having adverse physical reactions to this change, I hope they land on a fix quickly that will correct that.7
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I'm confident they'll fix it, but I'm guessing Tuesday the earliest. As a color-disabled individual, it's tougher to play but I'm slogging through to finish my Daily stuff. I want to be effective for the Boss Event and I know it will take me longer than usual with this update.
I do wish more game companies would allow more colorblind settings. My favorite is when they allow you to pick the colors yourself, so you can individually find the most contrasting colors and not rely on someone's elses choices through filters. Even though there's a few types of Colorblindness, peoples can have varying degrees of severity in their type.5 -
Bad said:Its difficult to go against the Holy Rage Mode of the New-Found-Best-Community-Members-Game-Inquisitors with 20 posts atacking anyone.
I only hope when this issue will be fixed, you stay here providing feedback to try to make a better game like many of us we usually do, including roadwarrior.
I do think too this thread is toxic but like always when there is any change and it appears people seeming to enjoy the situation.
I have been playing my same amount of hours without any problem. I dont have any type of colorblind but I am confident the issue will be fixed. It is needed time for that.
Lets be patient, rational and mature.I definitely intend to stick around. Parts of the forum don't seem as useful for the more casual player, but I'm figuring out how it works (I didn't know the forum existed until someone linked to it from reddit).If nothing else, I think it's a good thing for the disabled members of the community (and folks with disabilities who use other terms) to stick around and be heard, too. For this game and really for any place/thing.8 -
I dont want to have improved one. I want old style back. There must be an option for old style so everyone could be happy.1
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For a game where the core gameplay involves manipulating a board of colored tiles, good colorblind settings should be a must.sweegy said:I'm confident they'll fix it, but I'm guessing Tuesday the earliest. As a color-disabled individual, it's tougher to play but I'm slogging through to finish my Daily stuff. I want to be effective for the Boss Event and I know it will take me longer than usual with this update.
I do wish more game companies would allow more colorblind settings. My favorite is when they allow you to pick the colors yourself, so you can individually find the most contrasting colors and not rely on someone's elses choices through filters. Even though there's a few types of Colorblindness, peoples can have varying degrees of severity in their type.2
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