Question on Forum Rules

HoundofShadow

That's a flawed logic. Investigation takes time, and I'm sure they aren't devoting their entire dev time on this issue. Just because they didn't do something within your specific timeframe doesn't mean that they allow cheating. 

Your logic is probably "I have sent proof of cheating; therefore, I expect those players to be banned within 24 hours."

It's probably because after weighing the priority and importance of daily to do task and these level of cheating affects only less than 0.1 of the playerbase; therefore, investigation isn't completed as fast as you want.

This somehow reminds me of tapping. It took them months before they put a stop to it. And tapping affects only the top 1% of competitive players in those higher scls. I would say less than 1% because I doubt players tap in scl 1 to 6.

acescracked

Prince_Raoul said:

And I acknowledged that.

Taking a quote from a different response shows the weakness of you ability to debate effectively. Try and stay on subject. 

This is a debate? News to me. Break down your position in simple form...

People who spend money on a match 3 game are not permitted to call out hacks or exploits.

What is there to debate about that? That's a ridiculous position. People have every right to ask a company to look into hacking or exploits into their product. There's nothing to debate about you trying to silence people. Your true intentions have been hinted at and it seems you might have a dog in this fight.

Not to mention you just dismissing the fact that this does affect people who don't spend money since that further dilutes your regular Joe vs the elites propaganda. There are far less people spending hundreds or thousands a year than you think. It's not even 50% of the players in t20 across the 5 time slices.

Theghouse

fight4thedream said:

helix72 said:

I'm perplexed. If the game is able to run faster on one device, platform, or software (e.g. iOS vs Android, PC vs mobile device), why is that not an allowed forum discussion topic? Can someone point me to the forum rule that makes that discussion a violation? I've read the posted rules and just don't see it.

Forum Rules - Please Read Before Posting — D3 Go! Forums

***Mod note: Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than a simple apples to apples comparison of hardware performance; the issue apparently is that a player on PC has to take certain steps to gain speed enhancement which is an unintended effect and therefore considered an exploit. The rule that deals with issues of cheating and exploits is rule 8.

As always, if you suspect someone of cheating or have discovered a potential exploit we ask that you contact Customer Service (mpqsupport@d3go.com) and provide as many details as possible. Accusations of cheating and the discussion of exploits on the forum are strictly prohibited. Such posts and threads will be removed and the user issued a warning and/or ban depending on their user history.

I want to be clear here: there is a proper way to report exploits and suspicions of cheating, namely contacting Customer Service. While I understand that Customer Service's investigations may not be as fast as some would like, posting the issue on the forum will not expedite the process, is a violation of the forum rules and will be dealt with accordingly.

Perhaps the forum administrators would do good to amend the rules to say absolutely under no circumstances is any mention of anything related to gameplay exploits or cheating allowed, ever.

As far as I can tell by the plain language used, even by posting a video that showed a game being played super fast, the poster of the video in the previous thread at no time advocated for cheating nor shared links to any hacks nor shared any misinformation.  Further I did not see any accusations directed at any player, only a general statement that this practice was something already occurring in the game.

If a player has brought what he thought was a very serious issues affecting the game's competitive balance to customer service (multiple times as reported) and received no indication that they were addressing the behavior as cheating, was it really breaking the rules to bring that information to the game's official forum?  That's a really poor mixed message to send.

Bad

I think this thread is interesting. 
First, dont forget videos can be manipulated too. It is not the irrefutable proof.
Second, a hacker can figure out all the exploits he want. But if after an investigation CS bans his account, for what use was all that hard work for? Id rather prefer play it honestly and fair and not losing all my years work account.
 Perhaps could be positive from devs side a public warning. It uses to show up on other games. 
Another interesting point, all that inmature protagonism displayed here, and that irrational rage against "whales" or elites, like an anti system speech.
 I think it all comes to personal envy after all, but without thinking really much the own approach, and ignoring the damage it uses to be deal.

HoundofShadow

I think what's lacking here is patience. This is not the first time he did this. I'm sure he's gotten a warning previously from the admin for the same offence. He decided to do it again, and that leads to him getting banned. Since it has been mentioned that hundred of reports have been filed, obviously they are aware of the problem. Flooding CS email with the same issue will probably frustrate them, and probably lead them to putting your case at the bottom of the pile. Besides, I think all games, except GI JOE, under D3Go are using the same contact email. So, CS's life doesn't revolve around just that email. 

Patience. Patience. Patience.

8. We reserve the right to delete any material that we deem inappropriate for our forums, including, but not limited to:

• Offensive topics

• Offensive profile avatars

• Advocating cheating

• Hack links

• Insulting others

• Spoilers

• Data-mined or misleading information

• Customer Support ticket conversations

• Etc.

DeNappa

HoundofShadow said:

<snip>Flooding CS email with the same issue will probably frustrate them, and probably lead them to putting your case at the bottom of the pile. 

That's quite a ridiculous statement.

fight4thedream

Theghouse said:

fight4thedream said:

helix72 said:

I'm perplexed. If the game is able to run faster on one device, platform, or software (e.g. iOS vs Android, PC vs mobile device), why is that not an allowed forum discussion topic? Can someone point me to the forum rule that makes that discussion a violation? I've read the posted rules and just don't see it.

Forum Rules - Please Read Before Posting — D3 Go! Forums

***Mod note: Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than a simple apples to apples comparison of hardware performance; the issue apparently is that a player on PC has to take certain steps to gain speed enhancement which is an unintended effect and therefore considered an exploit. The rule that deals with issues of cheating and exploits is rule 8.

As always, if you suspect someone of cheating or have discovered a potential exploit we ask that you contact Customer Service (mpqsupport@d3go.com) and provide as many details as possible. Accusations of cheating and the discussion of exploits on the forum are strictly prohibited. Such posts and threads will be removed and the user issued a warning and/or ban depending on their user history.

I want to be clear here: there is a proper way to report exploits and suspicions of cheating, namely contacting Customer Service. While I understand that Customer Service's investigations may not be as fast as some would like, posting the issue on the forum will not expedite the process, is a violation of the forum rules and will be dealt with accordingly.

Perhaps the forum administrators would do good to amend the rules to say absolutely under no circumstances is any mention of anything related to gameplay exploits or cheating allowed, ever.

As far as I can tell by the plain language used, even by posting a video that showed a game being played super fast, the poster of the video in the previous thread at no time advocated for cheating nor shared links to any hacks nor shared any misinformation.  Further I did not see any accusations directed at any player, only a general statement that this practice was something already occurring in the game.

If a player has brought what he thought was a very serious issues affecting the game's competitive balance to customer service (multiple times as reported) and received no indication that they were addressing the behavior as cheating, was it really breaking the rules to bring that information to the game's official forum?  That's a really poor mixed message to send.

That's a fair point. I will bring it up to the forum administrators to see if we can have the rules updated.

fight4thedream

**Mod note: Some posts were removed for being inappropriate or off-topic. Please remember to be kind or at least civil with each other and try to keep the discussion on topic. Thank you.

HoundofShadow

In an ideal world, CS employed in any business should be doing things according to procedures laid out. However, real world examples proved otherwise when dealing with "problematic" customers. 

Put yourself in the shoes of CS. They already mentioned not to send more than one ticket for the same issue. Getting 100 players to send the same "hacking" video or reporting the same issue 100 times isn't going to speed up your case. A normal human will probably be tired of seeing 100 emails talking about the same issue. You guys need to be aware that there are many other players who are encountering technical problems that might have an even higher priority than your reports that affect your placements, such as players not being able to login to the game, problems related to save data etc.

Besides, showing "how to hack" in a game isn't a good proof to show that someone is hacking. If I were you, I would get someone with 550 meta rosters and have them take videos of themselves clearing the nodes. Every first clear and third clear of each node, check the leaderboard. I think this is a better way of proofing that the other player is hacking. If you'd just finished the first node, and they have cleared all the first three to six nodes, then something is probably wrong.

JRYUART

I’m not a software developer so bear with me  - if the exploit being used is essentially a means to speed up the performance of your device/emulator  in its entirety, where the result is that it affects any and all applications being run at an faster rate, how would the devs be able to mitigate this within the confines of their specific app without compromising the integrity and performance of the software in its current functioning state?  It seems that it would be inordinately difficult to patch the app in such a way where they could detect the exploit and then artificially slow it down *exactly* to their intended conventional/universal performance speed to achieve parity with the non-exploiting players.  Whatever the solution is, it just seems like it is not an easy fix, if fixable at all.  

If that is the case, the only recourse seems to be penalizing those who use the exploit.  However, what if the game currently does not natively have a built-in function to measure clear speed and only goes empirically by completion and points total ? How do you prove that someone is really using this hack versus if they happen to be fast/lucky/knows the point refresh timings ?  

Whatever the resolution of this, it just seems like the devs have their work cut out for them in a major way and it’s going to take time, even moreso since they’re likely still in WFH mode due to pandemic. That said, maybe an official statement or acknowledgment of such a major issue by the devs could be made to help smooth things out. 

SnowcaTT

Things that should effect PVE placement:

1) Skill, above all else.
2) Timing, which relates to #1
3) Roster size - need the right specific characters, usually the bigger the better.
4) Supports - need the right specific supports

If you have all of these, you should do better than someone with two of these, for example.

Big spenders certainly can get an advantage on the competition through #3 (and previously through #4).

We can argue about 'how' people got #3 and #4, and  I do. RNG should be RNG, anyone that has been able to 'modify' that and beat others for ages with those modifications is as complicit in cheating as any other method.

But just as no-one should get a giant advantage through 3/4 without spending a ton of time and/or money, no-one should get a giant advantage over 1/2 (timing/skill) by using specific methods or specific devices.

Fair is fair - everything that anyone should do, everyone should be able to do. Anything that is locked off for some, should be locked off for all.

SnowcaTT

The_Boogie said:

Prince_Raoul said:

This is because you turned over all your “research” and the devs came to different conclusion. 

Devs didn't come to a different conclusion. Devs didn't come to ANY conclusion, thus far. I suck at pve, This problem doesn't really affect me. But its got some of my friends ready to quit.

Once again, no "elitism" none of the stuff you keep saying trying to trigger people - its just a desire that D3 enforce the rules as published.

No "elitism", hah! I see what you did there. Triggered.

The_Boogie

(i) cheat or use, develop or distribute automation software programs (“bots”),  “macro” software programs or other “cheat utility” software programs or applications that are designed to modify the Game experience to the detriment of fair play

This is what matters. This is D3 going on the record with what is allowed and not allowed in their game. And whether it can be "fixed" or not is irrelevant. Can it be detected? That's what is important. If it can be detected, then those breaching this line of the EULA can be punished according to the rules established by D3.

The_Boogie

Also Listed in the Rules of Conduct within Terms of Service (bolding is mine):

2. You shall not use the Services to develop, host, or distribute cheats, automation software (bots), modded lobbies, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software in connection with the Services, or engage in any form of cheating, boosting, or booting.

Daredevil217

fight4thedream said:

Theghouse said:

fight4thedream said:

helix72 said:

I'm perplexed. If the game is able to run faster on one device, platform, or software (e.g. iOS vs Android, PC vs mobile device), why is that not an allowed forum discussion topic? Can someone point me to the forum rule that makes that discussion a violation? I've read the posted rules and just don't see it.

Forum Rules - Please Read Before Posting — D3 Go! Forums

***Mod note: Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than a simple apples to apples comparison of hardware performance; the issue apparently is that a player on PC has to take certain steps to gain speed enhancement which is an unintended effect and therefore considered an exploit. The rule that deals with issues of cheating and exploits is rule 8.

As always, if you suspect someone of cheating or have discovered a potential exploit we ask that you contact Customer Service (mpqsupport@d3go.com) and provide as many details as possible. Accusations of cheating and the discussion of exploits on the forum are strictly prohibited. Such posts and threads will be removed and the user issued a warning and/or ban depending on their user history.

I want to be clear here: there is a proper way to report exploits and suspicions of cheating, namely contacting Customer Service. While I understand that Customer Service's investigations may not be as fast as some would like, posting the issue on the forum will not expedite the process, is a violation of the forum rules and will be dealt with accordingly.

Perhaps the forum administrators would do good to amend the rules to say absolutely under no circumstances is any mention of anything related to gameplay exploits or cheating allowed, ever.

As far as I can tell by the plain language used, even by posting a video that showed a game being played super fast, the poster of the video in the previous thread at no time advocated for cheating nor shared links to any hacks nor shared any misinformation.  Further I did not see any accusations directed at any player, only a general statement that this practice was something already occurring in the game.

If a player has brought what he thought was a very serious issues affecting the game's competitive balance to customer service (multiple times as reported) and received no indication that they were addressing the behavior as cheating, was it really breaking the rules to bring that information to the game's official forum?  That's a really poor mixed message to send.

That's a fair point. I will bring it up to the forum administrators to see if we can have the rules updated.

Out of curiosity, why go that direction? The poster by the letter of the law did not violate the rules (didn’t say how to hack, called out no one specific, etc.) and instead of unbanning the person and allowing the discussion to continue (which you know good and well was civil until a certain someone decided to create an account just to troll), you are going to look into changing the wording of the rules so that forum member stays banned under the “new letter of the law”? And then anyone else who even acknowledges that cheating exists suffers the same fate? Maybe I’m misreading your post, but it seems like a lot of work to bury these issues. I get the whole “report if you suspect cheating” thing. But it doesn’t feel like an either/or thing to me. People can report and still talk about and even vent about this issue just like they would a bad pull rate. As long as they are following the rules. But now we want to make it so we can’t even acknowledge the issue exists.  Seems kind of odd to me. 

pheregas

Just came here to add (like @LakeStone asked) that I reported a suspected user of this potential exploit weeks ago.  And I received nothing back.  Not a peep.  And this has been going on for weeks.

Without naming names (and I took screenshots) and to put it in context, I am routinely beaten by 4 or 5 players in my particular slice.  I've been playing since almost the beginning and I'm fast.  But sure, I can give the benefit of the doubt that they may be faster than me.  The fact that they are always 20+ points ahead of me at the end of sub grind is suspicious, sure, but not conclusive of anything.

However, one of those players that beats my speed clear team does not have any meta 5* teams.  In fact, at the time of my reporting, they didn't even have a single 4* above 300, let alone any champed 5s.

In no world does a low level 4* roster beat a fully developed meta team in speed.  Especially when the character that makes that win possible has a mechanic that is slow on regular phones, but not slow at all in the exploit.

For the record, I know exactly how this exploit is used and works.  I named the source by name in my original official submission to Customer Service.

This is an epic failure by the game owners.  One can argue that it may soon devolve into a game breaking exploit.

At the very least, sandbox the users of this exploit.

Or if this is the way we are supposed to play in the future, render that judgement so that I can accept the new meta and choose to participate or leave the game behind.

The rockett

Welp the side by side video is on Reddit.  I don’t want to be banned here so not sure if this is allowed or not.  Seek it out and you will see what this is about.  

KGB

JRYUART said:

I’m not a software developer so bear with me  - if the exploit being used is essentially a means to speed up the performance of your device/emulator  in its entirety, where the result is that it affects any and all applications being run at an faster rate, how would the devs be able to mitigate this within the confines of their specific app without compromising the integrity and performance of the software in its current functioning state?  It seems that it would be inordinately difficult to patch the app in such a way where they could detect the exploit and then artificially slow it down *exactly* to their intended conventional/universal performance speed to achieve parity with the non-exploiting players.  Whatever the solution is, it just seems like it is not an easy fix, if fixable at all.  

If that is the case, the only recourse seems to be penalizing those who use the exploit.  However, what if the game currently does not natively have a built-in function to measure clear speed and only goes empirically by completion and points total ? How do you prove that someone is really using this hack versus if they happen to be fast/lucky/knows the point refresh timings ?  

Whatever the resolution of this, it just seems like the devs have their work cut out for them in a major way and it’s going to take time, even moreso since they’re likely still in WFH mode due to pandemic. That said, maybe an official statement or acknowledgment of such a major issue by the devs could be made to help smooth things out. 

You are correct that's it's virtually impossible to detect if IOS/Android apps are running in an emulator. Here's a brief article taking about just that.

https://www.cryptomathic.com/news-events/blog/app-hardening-for-mobile-banking-and-payment-apps-emulator-detection

The only way is going to be checking clear times to see if they clear 'too fast'. That's been done in the past and caused accounts to be falsely sandboxed. There were posts about this a few years ago when 5* Thanos was released and he significantly speeded up clear times so that it appeared players were cheating. D3 had to modify their cheat detect code on timing to account for that.

KGB

gravel

After a trip down memory lane, I found the old post on the LT exploit on the forums.  From the update:

"• We do not look the other way when it comes to exploiting & cheating. Never have, never will.
• We manually roll back exploiter's accounts - meaning they can lose months of progress, including anything they gained fairly.
• We only offer this as a one-time courtesy to players so they don't lose everything they have paid for.
• At no point is a player allowed to retain anything they have obtained through an exploit.

The integrity of the game remains intact. We've tried to make this clear and will say it again in the hopes that the reality of the situation is known. Cheaters are not allowed to keep anything gained from exploiting or cheating. Their accounts are either removed from the game completely or rolled back to a point before cheating occurred - which includes removal of any items gained by exploiting/cheating."

I've seen the video, it's awful to see.  It would be nice to have some response, but I always laugh when others ask for it.  Is the integrity of the game intact?

HoundofShadow

I finally saw the video. However, that doesn't prove the accused is cheating directly. All these are circumstantial evidences. The logic seems to go like this:

1) Player A whose roster isn't as good as mine is clearing pve faster than me.
2) It's impossible that he is clearing faster than me because my roster is stronger than his; therefore, he's using speed hack.
3) I have video evidences of myself speed hacking the game; therefore, it's true that the player is using speed hack.

Also, I find the idea that low level champed 4* can't beat 5* team in clearing pves frightening. I was getting top 10, and sometimes top 5 in scl 7 and 8 pves when I was in 4* land. If the dev believes the above idea, I and other 4* players who got top 10 in pves regularly, without sniping brackets, would be banned eons ago. Afterall, top 10 placements in scl 7 and above are dominated by 5* players.

I believe some of the possible reasons why those 5* players who were slower than me when I was in 4* land are because:

1) they aren't that competitive
2) have slower reflexes
3) aren't as skillful
4) they are happy with their speed of completion.
5) They want to let other 4* players have a shot at top 10.

I would like to jump into scl 10 in the next pve to see for myself how fast the accused can complete the pve. If it's too fast to be true, I'll help to report as well. However, I need to know which slice it is. 


Edit: after re-reading the post in Reddit by the op, I find myself suspecting that it's a conspiracy to get the dev to speed up the game for everyone, since the dev doesn't seem to want to speed up the game. I noticed some theme such as, "if the dev can't detect the cheat, make it a feature for everyone." Now, they are pushing people to make this spread even further. Bad move, people. The way I see it is this affects the top 1% of playerbase and the 99% aren't affected by this. It does not mean cheating is correct. The intention is good, but the method used isn't good.