Question on Forum Rules

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  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards
    Theghouse said:

    If the people involved agreed with your beliefs that CS was doing a stellar job of closing this exploit and removing cheaters using it, given months of having the detailed information about the workings of this particular exploit and numerous reports of suspicious players believed to be using it, the situation would not have reached this point.  
    It's worth pointing out that in the game industry, Player Support/Customer Service is rarely, if ever, a contributing member of a development team (unless you're dealing with an ultra small indie development team or a startup), so all they would be doing is managing the communication thread with a user and creating a bug/issue/feature ticket for the actual dev team to slot into their schedule. Nobody in Customer Service is going to be closing down exploits at most companies. I don't work for or have any affiliation with the dev team on this product, but I am in industry and speaking from general experience about what these roles usually look like. I would not expect any followup on a ticket I submitted that was about something not directly pertaining to my account beyond "thanks for your submission." In much the same way I wouldn't expect a school system to give me any kind of status update on a complaint I had about someone else's child, unless whatever that child did directly affected my child. "I saw some other kid showing up to school late." "thanks, we'll look into it." is never going to be followed by "hey nosybody parent, here's how we disciplined that other kid you happened to see." And I get it, we are all being affected here in MPQ in that it's pushing placements down, but even so I would expect this to take the form of a Patch Note telling the whole player base an issue was identified and we're looking into it rather than whoever reported it getting a personal followup. Just look back to the "tapping" fix for how it used to be communicated.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2021
    Well at least we now know the exploit that @dhaunas used is now closed.  1 down,1 more to go. 
  • gravel
    gravel Posts: 585 Critical Contributor
    The rockett said:
    Well at least we now know the exploit that @dhaunas used is now closed.  1 down,1 more to go. 
    It is?  Is that with the new update today?
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    gravel said:
    The rockett said:
    Well at least we now know the exploit that @dhaunas used is now closed.  1 down,1 more to go. 
    It is?  Is that with the new update today?
    Yes it is.  It was tested and confirmed.   Now waiting on the next thing to happen and find out about. 
  • Theghouse
    Theghouse Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    Theghouse said:

    If the people involved agreed with your beliefs that CS was doing a stellar job of closing this exploit and removing cheaters using it, given months of having the detailed information about the workings of this particular exploit and numerous reports of suspicious players believed to be using it, the situation would not have reached this point.  
    It's worth pointing out that in the game industry, Player Support/Customer Service is rarely, if ever, a contributing member of a development team (unless you're dealing with an ultra small indie development team or a startup), so all they would be doing is managing the communication thread with a user and creating a bug/issue/feature ticket for the actual dev team to slot into their schedule. Nobody in Customer Service is going to be closing down exploits at most companies. I don't work for or have any affiliation with the dev team on this product, but I am in industry and speaking from general experience about what these roles usually look like. I would not expect any followup on a ticket I submitted that was about something not directly pertaining to my account beyond "thanks for your submission." In much the same way I wouldn't expect a school system to give me any kind of status update on a complaint I had about someone else's child, unless whatever that child did directly affected my child. "I saw some other kid showing up to school late." "thanks, we'll look into it." is never going to be followed by "hey nosybody parent, here's how we disciplined that other kid you happened to see." And I get it, we are all being affected here in MPQ in that it's pushing placements down, but even so I would expect this to take the form of a Patch Note telling the whole player base an issue was identified and we're looking into it rather than whoever reported it getting a personal followup. Just look back to the "tapping" fix for how it used to be communicated.
    It's fair to say I got a little loose with using the CS abbreviation at the end there where I could have better separated CS and the devs where appropriate.

    In any case, as rockett mentioned it's being reported that the new UI update also addresses the speed exploit, so I'm happy letting this issue be put to rest.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm not sure if "criticise" is the word to use. I did "criticise" the dev for being "loose" with their choice of words back in the first run of Shardmas that caused misunderstanding. I also said something about the choice of colour used for the new UI Vaults/Stores etc. 

    The exposing of the exploit didn't start off well. I think it started off with BigSoftieFF asking all the players to stop spending and being angry in that thread a couple months back. It''s understandable that he's angry but if this is the tone used against the CS/Dev, then it won't help his cause. Last week, it turned into a coordinated "attack" on both Reddit and here. If those players didn't speak half truth, I would have thrown my support behind them.

    I find it weird that on one hand they want devs to communicate in the forum, and on the other hand, some of them made up lies about the dev not doing anything about the exploit. How can things improve between the players and the dev when such things happen? It's like there are some sort of deep level feud between them behind the scene.

    The last time we had a decent and proper Q&A in the forum was about 3 years ago. It lasted for a couple months and it ended abruptly because some players' egos were bruised when the dev described that they have "expert players" testing/playing the game for them. Some players decided to call the dev out for this, and look what we get. Right now, we've virtually zero communication from the dev.


  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Fair enough, I’m not trying to single you out and it’s off topic anyway. Just thought, it’s a shame that a balanced perspective is so often missed because we have so many extremes on the board.

    There are guilty parties of that on both sides and I find although you are fairly steadfast, you are rarely rude or disrespectful, so please don’t take my post as a personal attack.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    Well at least we now know the exploit that @dhaunas used is now closed.  1 down,1 more to go. 

    If only they had worked on the exploit that actually violates the TOS of the game that the 99% can use first, instead of the "whoops, our app is broken for 1% of the userbase" one.

    Well, one can hope that all those TOS violators get the perma-banhammer very soon.
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 954 Critical Contributor
    So... are buy-clubs cheating? That seems a severe to me, but I could be convinced otherwise if the reasoning is thoughtful.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    The reactions were showing slight aggression and sarcasm.  A new thread was created just for that. I mean, it's pretty obvious that both sides have different meanings of "expert players". The end result of how the dev answer that question would be quite obvious: getting called out of touch and getting scorned.

    I shall make some amendment, and it's this: As time passes, each interaction from the dev became fewer and more "distant". After that Q&A, we had dev appearing on podcast answering some questions, then some back and forth interactions from IceIX after Brigby left, followed by live Twitch last year and nothing much.

    Every time the dev answers a question "wrongly", they get called out of touch etc. One good example was on the topic of feeders. Back then, they said that they felt that feeders were released too quickly, and somehow this got translated into feeders are dead. Players got triggered by how they answered. Then, we have players arguing what the meaning of certain words should mean. The saga from discord in 2019 also contributed to even fewer interactions. The last interaction from the dev was a live Twitch and I saw those comments of elite players having "fun" among themselves.

    When you start to think about all the "interactions" in the forum with the players and how it always end (and it's mostly ended negatively), you will start to weigh whether it's worth continuing interacting or simply post a couple of times and disappear, until the next time.
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    Perhaps the relationship was better before. However imho the relationship as it is right now is how it should be.
    Can you talk/ chat with your boss if you are in a big company? If he is your family could be the only case.
    We are their bosses, it is not a natural relationship. They are not in the need to do that. Even more, it could be for them like"you have the right to remain silent anything you say can and will be used against you in a court".
    No, I think the best relationship is them being open to our feedback and suggestions and we receiving sneak peeks as it is mostly now.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yepyep said:
    So... are buy-clubs cheating? That seems a severe to me, but I could be convinced otherwise if the reasoning is thoughtful.

    Whilst the fact that Buy Clubs even exist and come together on a regular basis is mind blowing to me, I don't see how they are cheating as such.
    There are no rules adout moving and forming new alliances and Demi/D3 definitely do not have rules against spending money! And it is Demi/D3 offering the invitation to treat of CP for your whole Alliance - so you could say they are the ones actively encouraging such activity.
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 954 Critical Contributor
    DAZ0273 said:
    Yepyep said:
    So... are buy-clubs cheating? That seems a severe to me, but I could be convinced otherwise if the reasoning is thoughtful.

    Whilst the fact that Buy Clubs even exist and come together on a regular basis is mind blowing to me, I don't see how they are cheating as such.
    There are no rules adout moving and forming new alliances and Demi/D3 definitely do not have rules against spending money! And it is Demi/D3 offering the invitation to treat of CP for your whole Alliance - so you could say they are the ones actively encouraging such activity.
    I completely agree. Buy clubs seem analogous to farms in game. A moderate -- and obvious -- exploitation of the game's structure coupled to the reality of Line and Discord.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    HoundofShadow said:
    The reactions were showing slight aggression and sarcasm.  A new thread was created just for that. I mean, it's pretty obvious that both sides have different meanings of "expert players". The end result of how the dev answer that question would be quite obvious: getting called out of touch and getting scorned.

    I shall make some amendment, and it's this: As time passes, each interaction from the dev became fewer and more "distant". After that Q&A, we had dev appearing on podcast answering some questions, then some back and forth interactions from IceIX after Brigby left, followed by live Twitch last year and nothing much.

    Every time the dev answers a question "wrongly", they get called out of touch etc. One good example was on the topic of feeders. Back then, they said that they felt that feeders were released too quickly, and somehow this got translated into feeders are dead. Players got triggered by how they answered. Then, we have players arguing what the meaning of certain words should mean. The saga from discord in 2019 also contributed to even fewer interactions. The last interaction from the dev was a live Twitch and I saw those comments of elite players having "fun" among themselves.

    When you start to think about all the "interactions" in the forum with the players and how it always end (and it's mostly ended negatively), you will start to weigh whether it's worth continuing interacting or simply post a couple of times and disappear, until the next time.

    Y'know I went back and read some of these threads and a fun time was had but really nothing got all that salty. I couldn't find the one with the "expert player" but honestly, it was like about 2 or 3 people who made a sarcastic comment from memory, hardly a massive pile-on.
    And a lot of this stuff went down on other media.
    The Special Event thread (but one of a few about feeders) - it was 4 pages long and the last page was mostly about a 4* player not caring about feeders. In that thread about feeders being released it was you specifically who was the one who told us that The Devs needed to define what "Special Event" means (which they never did) rather than people being able to relate from usual English definition.  This was because no feeders were being released smack bang in the middle of Anniversary, the games annual special event. In the end it turns out that "Special Event" means...uhm...
    So players really didn't get "triggered" on anything - they were told special event = new feeders and when a special event happened and no feeders happened they asked: So, what is a "Special Event" then? To this day we still do not know. :D
  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 304 Mover and Shaker
    The rockett said:
    Well at least we now know the exploit that @dhaunas used is now closed.  1 down,1 more to go. 
    I am not sure if this is related but I play on ROG 3 and the game is significantly slower now after the update. I wonder if they somehow locked speed to certain level rather than closing the exploit.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Somebody started a new thread just because of those two words and some other comments were obviously sarcastic in the thread where the dev answer that question about game balances/buffing/nerfing. 

    Other instance I remember were players determining what "logical" feeders should entail. The first feeder that kicked this off was Drax feeding Starlord, if I didn't remember wrongly. Drax was not a logical feeder, but Starlord was. After that, we had 4* BP feeding 5* BP. It was a logical feeder but because BP was still pretty new, some were talking about this is a money grab or something similar to that effect.

    As for feeder thread, I'm talking about the thread started by someone after the Dev went to the podcast and talked about feeder and other thing. At that point of time, players were waiting for feeders. The dev said they felt they released feeders too quickly and they got called out of touch etc.

    I have vague memory of  "special event" but I think I was pretty excited but it turned to be some normal event for long time players. So, I realised that word is used pretty loosely and it was in one of the Release not thread?

    The first run of Fight for Wakanda was memorable. I think it was about how "neutral tile" should be. 

    Anyway, I think the relationship between the players and dev is almost irreparable. It's like a married couple living separately and not communicating with each other after years of fighting.

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