Question on Forum Rules

ThaRoadWarrior

I finished 148th in Strange Sights by changing nothing about my playstyle as well. That was pretty typical of my historical placement playing to full-rewards, which is how I guess I'll describe what I do.

Bad

I finished 48 on strange sights. Im noticing when im finishing the clears Im in t80, and not 100 like I was since many months ago.
Being sanboxed or losing the account is no joke.
If this thread served for some players thinking it better, until devs can fix it, I think it is a good deal.

Southside84

I hope it's because cheaters are being banned and not temporarily scared away from using their cheats, only to have it return once the heat dies down.  I finished 9th, but that was more of a fluke with more than half of the usual T10 missing.  Opened 27th for the hunt, which is about where I always start

Wil88

I did notice that my placement in the Gauntlet ended up being 5 spots higher than when I finished it and I wondered if some players were sandboxed. 

My Strange Sights placement was about typical which is top100 

Kolence

Wil88 said:

I did notice that my placement in the Gauntlet ended up being 5 spots higher than when I finished it and I wondered if some players were sandboxed. 

My Strange Sights placement was about typical which is top100 

The Gauntlet thing is because a few, who finished everything before you, played some more after you were done, so they posted the same score only later and were ranked at the tail end.

When someone is sandboxed, the bracket will show an extra count, like 1000+X or 5000+X, I think. 

Phumade

helix72 said:

Positive outcome: I had a personal best placement in Strange Sights and am sitting higher than usual in The Hunt after day 2. Nothing in my play style has changed, my roster hasn't strengthened appreciably, and I have only ever played on the same iPad I've had for over 3 years. While it's only 2 events, my hypothesis is that the cheaters have gotten nervous and are either stopping or cutting back, and my placement is benefitting as a result. I, for one, am thankful this has gotten the attention it has and I hope D3 finds a way to put an end to it once and for all.

Ironically I was also comfortably back in the top 20.  Granted I did hit ever single node, but recently even that was insufficient for T20 Scl 10.

Cannibalqueen

Strange Sights is a very odd event for me.  I realize that people can tackle different nodes so your individual days ranking is not going to match up with your total event ranking.  It can wildly different.  

But each individual day, I was in top 100.  Getting like 90th or 80th place.  And not even going to 4 clears in SCL 10.  But then finished 200ish for the entire event.  I’m not saying anything weird going on, but it’s a thing that’s never made sense to me.  If every single days sub I end up with better ranking, why is my total event ranking always so dismal.  

My alliance doesn’t communicate at all, so I always go middle first, then the left one and finally the rightmost one.  Just because I imagine that’s the opposite of what most people would do.

Daredevil217

Assume you go opposite of what everyone else does and you’re the only one in your door. You can get first place all three days because you’re the only one in your door. Meanwhile there are 200 people clearing faster than you (and thus earning more points than you) in the other doors. So while your score is good enough for #1 all three days, you can still get #201 overall. 

Theghouse

Cannibalqueen said:

Strange Sights is a very odd event for me.  I realize that people can tackle different nodes so your individual days ranking is not going to match up with your total event ranking.  It can wildly different.  

But each individual day, I was in top 100.  Getting like 90th or 80th place.  And not even going to 4 clears in SCL 10.  But then finished 200ish for the entire event.  I’m not saying anything weird going on, but it’s a thing that’s never made sense to me.  If every single days sub I end up with better ranking, why is my total event ranking always so dismal.  

My alliance doesn’t communicate at all, so I always go middle first, then the left one and finally the rightmost one.  Just because I imagine that’s the opposite of what most people would do.

Because strange sights has the three nodes running at the same time every day, each day you have three top 100 lists, not just one.

Being in top 100 every day doesn't even guarantee you are in the top 300.  If you place 80 in your node everyday, there could still be 120 people each in the other two nodes that did better than you.  Meaning you have 240 people in front of you in those nodes PLUS 79 people in front of you in your node, making you actually 320 for the whole event.

killahKlown

I've pretty much figured out how to use this exploit by putting all of your comments together.  I'm sure others who are just reading along and had no idea something like this existed are now interested in trying it themselves.  So in that regard, this thread seems counterproductive.  You are not getting anything fixed by discussing it ad nauseum here.  At worst, you are only adding more enabling more people to cheat by pointing out how do do it and that there are no repercussions.  You've been given a way to handle cheaters, report them.

HoundofShadow

One way to look at this is that it was the real intention all along. The problem was pretty small and kept within the "circle" of elite players for the past few months. Players affected were tired of the dev's slow progress (probably 3 to 5 months or so). By multiplying or enlarging the problem and riling up the players in the forums, it will force the dev to shift more time to close the "exploit" and expedite the process. 

If you were trying to rile up the playerbase, which of these will have a bigger emotional impact?

a) We have made multiple reports of suspected exploits and the CS has told us that they are working on closing the exploit but it will take some time. We are aware that the CS has told us it will take some time but we find that their progress is too slow. 

b) We have made a lot of reports for the past few months and the dev has done nothing about it. It's not fair to all the players. Stop spending on the game because the dev are doing nothing about those cheaters.

Theghouse

HoundofShadow said:

One way to look at this is that it was the real intention all along. The problem was pretty small and kept within the "circle" of elite players for the past few months. Players affected were tired of the dev's slow progress (probably 3 to 5 months or so). By multiplying or enlarging the problem and riling up the players in the forums, it will force the dev to shift more time to close the "exploit" and expedite the process. 

If you were trying to rile up the playerbase, which of these will have a bigger emotional impact?

a) We have made multiple reports of suspected exploits and the CS has told us that they are working on closing the exploit but it will take some time. We are aware that the CS has told us it will take some time but we find that their progress is too slow. 

b) We have made a lot of reports for the past few months and the dev has done nothing about it. It's not fair to all the players. Stop spending on the game because the dev are doing nothing about those cheaters.

Are you seriously asking this question?  After pages of conversation what don't you get?

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  Posting the video was an intended act of full disclosure after several players gave lots of information regarding the exploit to the devs and got nothing for months.  From a PR standpoint, obviously CS could have communicated better to the players that have been reporting for months, and this situation would have unfolded differently.  They did not, so here we are. 

The last play was bringing it to the player base to say "hey, since nothing has been done yet to fix this, we thought you might want to know that this is how people are stealing placement rewards from long time honest players".  As a result, more players are mad.  Whatever priority this issue was when a few players were complaining about it, it is undoubtedly higher now then hundreds of players are mad about it.

After the video and the first thread, I asked CS what their stance was on this issue, and what I gathered from their response to me personally is that they are now acknowledging the video and existence of the exploit, confirm that such behavior is considered cheating, and they are investigating and working on a fix for the issue.  This is apparently more of a response than the original reporters got over the course of months.

So kudos to the people who have been fighting this for months, going through the proper channels, keeping it out of public eye for as long as possible so as not to rile up the player base and potentially encourage more use of the exploit, and for knowing when it was time to draw the line and go public with the information to force the devs to acknowledge the issue and give a higher priority to implementing a fix.

Bad

HoundofShadow said:

One way to look at this is that it was the real intention all along. The problem was pretty small and kept within the "circle" of elite players for the past few months. 

I think its proved this is not "kept within the circle of elite players" as any cheater entry by the fact pushes down all others players playing for gaining extra resources.
This thread served for cheaters to know that in time they are easily sppoted, identyfied, and possible sandboxed or punished.
I dont think all of this had any bad effect, in the opposite.

killahKlown

Bad said:

HoundofShadow said:

One way to look at this is that it was the real intention all along. The problem was pretty small and kept within the "circle" of elite players for the past few months. 

I think its proved this is not "kept within the circle of elite players" as any cheater entry by the fact pushes down all others players playing for gaining extra resources.
This thread served for cheaters to know that in time they are easily sppoted, identyfied, and possible sandboxed or punished.
I dont think all of this had any bad effect, in the opposite.

I see only bad effect.  Now many people know the exploit exists and have the pieces to figure out how to do it.  They are also aware that violators are not being punished.  So bravo to all those involved for making the problem more widespread. 

Bad

First, they are spotted for the most efficient bot: others players.
Not being punished? Here we had a comment from someone who was.
Those are 2 undenying facts.
Now you can trust that the punishment was nothing and try it by yourself.
The graveyard is full of brave men, like it is said.

HoundofShadow

If that's the case, the CS failed at their jobs. It's part of their job to update those players about the status of their reports. However, has it been confirmed that all of those players who filed those reports got zero update from CS? Update such as "they are working on it but it will take some time." I mean, hundred of reports were filed over the past few months and the CS were sleeping on their jobs all these months? Awesome?

On the other hand, I don't see why they have to explicitly acknowledge the exploit. Common sense would have told you that. How? The fact that at least one player who were reported by those players got boxed, and those group of players were aware of that.  Do people really need everything to be spelled out explicitly?  The fact that at least one player got boxed proved a few things:

1) the CS agreed that cheating was involved.
2) they did something about the exploit by boxing at least one player.

Theghouse

HoundofShadow said:

If that's the case, the CS failed at their jobs. It's part of their job to update those players about the status of their reports. However, has it been confirmed that all of those players who filed those reports got zero update from CS? Update such as "they are working on it but it will take some time." I mean, hundred of reports were filed over the past few months and the CS were sleeping on their jobs all these months? Awesome?

On the other hand, I don't see why they have to explicitly acknowledge the exploit. Common sense would have told you that. How? The fact that at least one player who were reported by those players got boxed, and those group of players were aware of that.  Do people really need everything to be spelled out explicitly?  The fact that at least one player got boxed proved a few things:

1) the CS agreed that cheating was involved.
2) they did something about the exploit by boxing at least one player.

3) By that player's own admission, he got unboxed simply by pleading no ill will.  The player who used the exploits gave video evidence to CS about how he did it.  Apparently the exploit should be sponsored by Geico because it's so easy a caveman could do it according to several people with intimate knowledge of it's workings.

4) Here we are, months later, with other suspicious players NOT BOXED (seeing as CS let one out of the box already), no information on any investigation into whether those players were cheating or not, and the exploit is still perfectly executable in the exact same fashion as demonstrated in videos given to CS directly from someone using the exploit.

HoundofShadow said:

If that's the case, the CS failed at their jobs. 

At long last you finally understand what this was all about.  Now why don't you hop into the quantum tunnel, gather up the infinity stones from different points in time, and snap us to the reality where CS handled this differently and this entire conversation wasn't necessary! 🤣🤣

HoundofShadow

I just find it amazing that from September till a few days ago (based on The rockett's timeline), the CS provided zero update to these players who have been filing reports for 6 months. Strangely enough, apart from Dhaunas, they replied to only you and gave you an update on the situation. Those players must be doing something wrong and you are doing something right in order for the CS to give you an update. Wouldn't anyone find this extreme differences amazing?

I've reported problems to the CS a few times and the typical flow is an automatic reply, followed by queries from CS within 48 hours (usually 24 hours) to understand more about the situation, and they will reply within 48 hours (usually 24 hours) after I replied them.  Whether they are able to solve the problem or not, they'll let me know. 

Just because you find some players suspicious doesn't mean they have to be boxed. It's like sending anyone suspicious to prison cells without giving them a chance to defend themselves.

About 3 years ago in this Q&A thread, this is what one of the dev answered about cheating/exploits:

It's hard to be super specific about cheats and exploits without saying something that makes it easier for cheaters to cheat, but:

- We've closed a couple of significant exploits over the last six months.
- In the past year, we've banned 13,671 accounts for cheating.
- Most games have some delay between when they detect a cheater and when they're removed from the game, in order to make it more difficult for cheaters to reverse engineer the cheat detection systems and work around them.
- We investigate every report that comes into CS about cheating. We appreciate the reports and they've directly helped us shut down several exploits over the years. A large proportion of reports are mistaken (two common causes of this: 1) some players think they know about all the buy clubs and don't recognize players who use a different set of them; 2) sometimes players bank a whole bunch of currency or tokens over the course of many many months (sometimes years) and spend them all at once). We don't typically respond to the individual reports with specifics, because that could reveal information about how cheat detection works. Put that together and that allows the perception of cheating and its impact to be larger than the reality. I'm not sure how to fix this, and not 100% sure we should - any amount of cheating is a big deal and we're working to get it to zero and keep it there, so I'd rather deal with mistaken cheat reports than not hear about an issue.

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/781200/#Comment_781200

This has been their stand about cheating all along and they have already shared how they deal with reports. Let's take it that some players are just forgetful. Maybe we can pin this up or get those players to pin this reply in their LINE chats.

gravel

HoundofShadow said:

I just find it amazing that from September till a few days ago (based on The rockett's timeline), the CS provided zero update to these players who have been filing reports for 6 months.

Have you ever reported a player?  In my experience, they don't give you updates.

Theghouse

HoundofShadow said:

I just find it amazing that from September till a few days ago (based on The rockett's timeline), the CS provided zero update to these players who have been filing reports for 6 months. Strangely enough, apart from Dhaunas, they replied to only you and gave you an update on the situation. Those players must be doing something wrong and you are doing something right in order for the CS to give you an update. Wouldn't anyone find this extreme differences amazing?

I've reported problems to the CS a few times and the typical flow is an automatic reply, followed by queries from CS within 48 hours (usually 24 hours) to understand more about the situation, and they will reply within 48 hours (usually 24 hours) after I replied them.  Whether they are able to solve the problem or not, they'll let me know. 

Just because you find some players suspicious doesn't mean they have to be boxed. It's like sending anyone suspicious to prison cells without giving them a chance to defend themselves.

About 3 years ago in this Q&A thread, this is what one of the dev answered about cheating/exploits:

It's hard to be super specific about cheats and exploits without saying something that makes it easier for cheaters to cheat, but:

- We've closed a couple of significant exploits over the last six months.
- In the past year, we've banned 13,671 accounts for cheating.
- Most games have some delay between when they detect a cheater and when they're removed from the game, in order to make it more difficult for cheaters to reverse engineer the cheat detection systems and work around them.
- We investigate every report that comes into CS about cheating. We appreciate the reports and they've directly helped us shut down several exploits over the years. A large proportion of reports are mistaken (two common causes of this: 1) some players think they know about all the buy clubs and don't recognize players who use a different set of them; 2) sometimes players bank a whole bunch of currency or tokens over the course of many many months (sometimes years) and spend them all at once). We don't typically respond to the individual reports with specifics, because that could reveal information about how cheat detection works. Put that together and that allows the perception of cheating and its impact to be larger than the reality. I'm not sure how to fix this, and not 100% sure we should - any amount of cheating is a big deal and we're working to get it to zero and keep it there, so I'd rather deal with mistaken cheat reports than not hear about an issue.

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/781200/#Comment_781200

This has been their stand about cheating all along and they have already shared how they deal with reports. Let's take it that some players are just forgetful. Maybe we can pin this up or get those players to pin this reply in their LINE chats.

Whether or not you agree with or have the capacity to understand it, the details of this situation have already been explained to you. 

If the people involved agreed with your beliefs that CS was doing a stellar job of closing this exploit and removing cheaters using it, given months of having the detailed information about the workings of this particular exploit and numerous reports of suspicious players believed to be using it, the situation would not have reached this point.  

But by all means, keep making arguments against things nobody has argued for, like sandboxing players without thorough investigation and evidence of cheating, or wanting players to have non-circumstantial evidence before reporting something suspicious which is not only impossible for players to collect on other players but completely opposite of what the devs want as quoted in your last post.