Nerf Okoye

freakygeek

Since we are all starting to talk big picture, here is a thinker. 

I don't think the problem is necessarily OP or **** characters but 0 synergies besides the ones we all exploit.  I would like to see built it affinity based synergies.  If building an inhumans, avengers, mutant team etc. guaranteed certain synergies that were unavailable otherwise I think lots of underused characters would be able to come out and play.  Because the meta is built around individual characters we continue to have this happen over and over no matter how may nerfs or buffs that are applied. There will always be king of the hill characters and a 2nd for them that boosts them into the stratosphere. 

Imagine if a Cyclops event meant that winning would require using other mutants and bringing out something like a HulkOye would be like busting out a Thorkoye in the current meta.  Maybe even 5* Phoenix having an extra perk playing with Cyclops or fastball special only works with Wolverine and Colossus on the team.  You could climb without a team affinity but not get to terribly high unless you were a whale.

Every so often D3 makes a stab at this (see Powerman and IF or 5* IM's red power) but they only do it half heartedly.  They label characters with affiliations but only use it to restrict options on certain event nodes.  If they would really commit to it that would force a lot more variety into the gameplay.

ThaRoadWarrior

X-Men affiliation seems to be the most useful by far, I too wish that feature meant more than it does.

acescracked

Bad said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Passive AOE that is boostable by Shared Strength and Wakanda Forever! is the new development that suddenly has this thread recalled to life. Somebody on the design team specifically excluded Juggern4ut's passive AOE from working with those kinds of powers, probably because it's too attainable for 5*players to quickly level a 4* up to problematic levels.

Sorry but you are the one that is bringing back over and over shared strenght. This is a post where nobody is complaining about shared strenght.  Like I said apocalypse needs 7 AP and fire it. It will be on turn 5, if its a good board. It can be on turn 10 perfectly.
You can bring thor but you will be hitted as he is pretty easy to handle.
Nobody is complaining about thorapoc teams because they let a looot of time to reaction, unlike hulkoye teams. 
Jugs was changed because of okoye. I wonder how many characters will be changed for not making okoye less OP.

Turn 5?!?! C'mon man. You know there's a boost milestone...?

PiMacleod

Thank you for saying that.  I wasn't about to rain on someone's parade, because after all, bad luck DOES happen... but yeah, SS usually happens BEFORE turn 5 in my experience.  If they get to turn 5 and I don't have that placed yet, they are probably whoopin' my team's behind.

ThaRoadWarrior

Just to test this - I went into a Spider's Ilk match with Apocalypse and a mostly full health Thor and +2 yellow/red, and it took me to turn 5 to get shared strength out against Apocalypse/Onslaught, and then I'd won the match by Turn 11 after letting Thor eat a cascade to the face to get him to star collecting AP. So I did it again against BRB/Polaris, with a <50% Thor, and by turn 3 i had Shared Strength out on the board with no yellow match available on Turn 1, and I'd won the match by Turn 5. I'm telling y'all offensively Apocalypse slaps with Thor because he side-steps protects on that cheap red.

Tony_Foot

Polares said:

Sincerely, If they nerf her after adding that offer for 30$, the cheapest I have ever seen for a 5 ... Well, I would delete the game IMMEDIATELY, and no turning back ever again. That would be basically stealing in my book.

Yep I’d be done too. The only acceptable compensation is if you have a 470 okoye for example you get to sell her and 33 5* covers of your choice, new or old. 500 okoye 63. Anything less than that is a rip off. If they offered proper compensation like that when you have already battled rng to get those covers then they can nerf and rebalance metas as much as they like.

Giving you pulls with RNG is a scummy tactic. Letting you chose your covers to the new meta is the only acceptable way as it’s not your fault they ****ed up the balance of a character like gambit and you went all in for him. Or like okoye offer favourite vaults and deals over and over on her.

At no time have I ever wanted to walk from the game, but a nerf to her without a one for one cover return would be me done.

Bad

acescracked said:

Turn 5?!?! C'mon man. You know there's a boost milestone...?

Of course.  Using 2 boosts it reduces to 5. And not only shared strenght! Even any power you wanted! Even more if playing pve using infinity gems.
But boosts run out, and then what is left is the power as is written on paper.
On that power I was talking about. Unless all of you wanted now to count all booster wich can be used, and then we will reduce the AP of all powers on 2.
But only the first time fired, sadly the boost are used and then you have again a power wich needs 2 AP more than before. 

Akoni

PiMacleod said:

i hear ya on all points.  I don't find Okoye to be so much of a "problem" either, but I also believe that for every build, there should be a counter.  What's Paper without Scissors??   

I agree. With a game like this, every release should either be a question or answer. Any new character that is considered meta should have a counterpart so to speak in a future release. Instead of this thread being about "nerf Okoye," it should be about "who's better, Okoye or..."

Bad

Perhaps devs are already on the move. Silk is the second character whose passive cannot be boosted. 
Coincidence? Or not.

HoundofShadow

In the beginning, when Okoye was released, power that deals damage linked to tile destruction is boosted by her. Then, they changed it. So, I say it's not coincidental.Kitty's Circuit Breaker doesn't benefit from WF. Someone with a better memory would be able to elaborate on the history of WF.

ThaRoadWarrior

WF got changed I believe because of Thor’s passive; it would have been way to OP. But now it is very inconsistently applied. The rule used to be interpreted that if the power broke tiles but then did a discreet slug of damage, it should be boostable, but if the damage was some multiple of the destroyed tile it would not. I have a whole thread going about edge cases where powers that destroy tiles do benefit, and other powers that should benefit from it not. I would expect Silk’s power would have triggered it, but after testing, it doesn’t. Which is a weird choice, it isn’t any better than Medusa’s passive, and a good sight less trigger happy than 2099’s.

Cannibalqueen

This is off topic, but since we’re talking about weird mechanics involved with WF,
why is it that if you play against 5* Carnage and your special tiles trigger him to make a free match,
why does his first turn count as your turn?  
I didn’t notice it until Polaris, because he ends up usually matching one of BRBs protects and then she spawns more protects.  

I remember at some point they made a change to him and I guess that’s when it happened.  It seems like a weird decision.

Chrynos1989

First of you would have to define what nerf means for her
if you go and take like 1/3 or 1/4 of her boost per TU AP, she’s still playable
if you go all gambit on her, i can understand that people would go bonkers after chasing her for years
she is essential for pve by now, indirectly taking her out would prolong pve times so much that people would just say forget it and after all people are mostly calling for QoL changes and time reductions

why not make a char with a passive like „reduce the final (after all boosts are applied) damage of all enemy powers, active and passive by %“
this way it wouldn’t affect smaller chars lesser than bigger ones while it affects fat roster the same and it would also work on apoc

and then you would have to ask about other chars. What’s with BRB? 6 blue and you lose. what’s with prof x / onslaught infinite cascade? what’s with apoc in total?

ThaRoadWarrior

Cannibalqueen said:

This is off topic, but since we’re talking about weird mechanics involved with WF,
why is it that if you play against 5* Carnage and your special tiles trigger him to make a free match,
why does his first turn count as your turn?  
I didn’t notice it until Polaris, because he ends up usually matching one of BRBs protects and then she spawns more protects.  

I remember at some point they made a change to him and I guess that’s when it happened.  It seems like a weird decision.

That’s a bug; when you take an offensive Carbage up against an enemy then all that also helps you. To exploit that, bring a Polaris up against him, it will all go in your favor that start of battle round.

Daredevil217

Bad said:

acescracked said:

Turn 5?!?! C'mon man. You know there's a boost milestone...?

Of course.  Using 2 boosts it reduces to 5. And not only shared strenght! Even any power you wanted! Even more if playing pve using infinity gems.
But boosts run out, and then what is left is the power as is written on paper.
On that power I was talking about. Unless all of you wanted now to count all booster wich can be used, and then we will reduce the AP of all powers on 2.
But only the first time fired, sadly the boost are used and then you have again a power wich needs 2 AP more than before. 

Your “arguments” honestly hurt you more than help you because they paint you as a person who simply doesn’t like Okoye or is mad others have her (or have her at high level) and you don’t. I say this because most of your arguments deny the reality of how people actually play this game and these characters work. 

1) I’ve never run out of boosts that I couldn’t replenish before a match. I have 10 million Iso and nothing to spend it on, so yeah, I’m stacking boosts often. They aren’t saying “with a match 5 yellow followed by a simple match 3, you can get this out turn 2!”   That’d be using a infinitesimally small edge case to make a point. Using boosts is not some random RNG event. It can be done every match and is 100% in the players control. 

2) Yes, most other powers people talk about you find folks saying “you can do X, Y with boosts”. Very common around these parts. Since WF is passive and doesn’t need boosts to fire, it doesn’t help your argument though. So I see why you’d want to disregard that reality. (though I DO use TU boosts to help WF pack a punch turn 1). 

3) You are right that a second cast of SS is more expensive. But you also know that you only need to fire it once to get the full effect and if you ever need to replenish you probably have more than enough yellow by that time. 

Bad

Daredevil217 said:

Your “arguments” honestly hurt you more than help you because they paint you as a person who simply doesn’t like Okoye or is mad others have her (or have her at high level) and you don’t. I say this because most of your arguments deny the reality of how people actually play this game and these characters work. 

Simply I was answering people telling me on turn 3 shared strenght is fired always. 
I understand after telling some truths I must be quoted for anything, though.
I doubt people playing pve is always using 2 boost, as there are only 30. 
If playing both pvp and pve that can be a bit difficult.  It must be that I dont known how it is played, of course.

ThaRoadWarrior

In PvP I always use +2 red/yellow with apocalypse or +2 to blue/purple with BRB. It costs 200iso for 5x boosts, so if you play a few matches it’s iso neutral at worst. You get such an early start compared to raw matching it changes everything. I won't use the +2 to All unless i'm trying to hit final progression and I need to move extra fast because it costs HP.

BriMan2222

ThaRoadWarrior said:

In PvP I always use +2 red/yellow with apocalypse or +2 to blue/purple with BRB. It costs 200iso for 5x boosts, so if you play a few matches it’s iso neutral at worst. You get such an early start compared to raw matching it changes everything. I won't use the +2 to All unless i'm trying to hit final progression and I need to move extra fast because it costs HP.

I do the same thing with apocalypse and brb but on hops I do add in the plus all ap, I usually have a decent amount of them from the spicy vault.  so with plus 2 R/Y, plus 2 B/P, and plus 2 all I can usually fire brb blue or apoc yellow on turn 2.

BigSoftieFF

I just wish I could buy 30 at a time.

I run fully boosted in PvE
Team ups
All
Either R/Y or G/B

In PvP
Team ups
R/Y

Bad

I use to equip boosts if fighting a hulkoye team. 
Still I need to champ 43 4* so the iso I have usually is saved.
Being all this theme pretty interesting and all that it is not relevant on how the powers are designed and it doesnt change any of my comments on this topic.