That CL10 challenge node is...

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  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    Today captains americas capworthy/peggy/HE
    Same tactics than before. I did 3 easy clears with Ice5/carnage5/nico.
    Going first for peggy she is the threat here. At third try his red power does 75k damage. Better stunning her for to be able to cast powers too. And denying red and blue at all cost for the other 2.
    With nico the damage will be great on time and they will fall.
    Dont expect to clear any combat unscathed tought
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was able to do clear 4 of the Jessica/CapHawk node on sub 2 of DP vs MPQ using GE Doom, G4mora, and Vulture. Keep Vulture up, Doom helps there, keep everyone stunned, and use the board shuffle to keep the 4*s alive. Gamora had 64 real health and an entirely green life at of full burst health by the end lol
  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I was able to do clear 4 of the Jessica/CapHawk node on sub 2 of DP vs MPQ using GE Doom, G4mora, and Vulture. Keep Vulture up, Doom helps there, keep everyone stunned, and use the board shuffle to keep the 4*s alive. Gamora had 64 real health and an entirely green life at of full burst health by the end lol
    Then the good news GE is buffed now. Enjoy.
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Challenge nodes are to ease the pain of upcoming nerf? 

    Imagine the sting is less after dealing with HE/HammerCap over and over at level 650.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    jp1 said:
    Challenge nodes are to ease the pain of upcoming nerf? 

    Imagine the sting is less after dealing with HE/HammerCap over and over at level 650.
    I have no idea how you nerf the Worthy HE interaction exactly.

    Do you make HE generate less AP when a CD goes off?  It obliterates his value unless you also change a power to provide instant dmg, but every arrow-user has CDs galore.

    Do you make Worthy make less CDs, like he did at first (only on yellow)?  We assessed him as solidly meh based on the initial way he worked.

    The fact is that you can't nerf anyone without pushing a bunch of players away, especially now that we are months into shards.  There are going to be players who are like 300 shards into a HE cover and if you ruin that team they will get really mad, and could well walk away, finally, from the game.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    If you're 300 shards into Hawkeye, next SCL10 pve will put him over. the "wasted shards" argument is not highly valuable to me anymore given this new normal.

    If you need to nerf that interaction, there is always the Stacked Deck method of locking out other blue/red users as a passive on Hawkeye. He, like Kitty, isn't exactly the problem alone. (i'm not a proponent of that move, just saying we've seen it done elsewhere)
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    If you're 300 shards into Hawkeye, next SCL10 pve will put him over. the "wasted shards" argument is not highly valuable to me anymore given this new normal.

    If you need to nerf that interaction, there is always the Stacked Deck method of locking out other blue/red users as a passive on Hawkeye. He, like Kitty, isn't exactly the problem alone. (i'm not a proponent of that move, just saying we've seen it done elsewhere)
    Why do you assume that every player working on a 5 is able to play in SCL10?

    I assume the majority of players are NOT able to play there.

    Now, maybe Hawkeye is the wrong choice for those players, but who knows what someone will do.

    Also, also.....when it's a year or more between appearances as a 5E, while your point is well made for high level (SCL10) players, you still would be stuck deciding to pause your progress until that 5E rolls around or keep going for what could well now be a pointless cover.  (If the nerf means you no longer care about that 5, being able to complete the cover is less important than the fact that those 300 shards would have served you better on someone else but you're stuck.)

    But I also understand there are different points of view on this matter.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    bluewolf said:
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    If you're 300 shards into Hawkeye, next SCL10 pve will put him over. the "wasted shards" argument is not highly valuable to me anymore given this new normal.

    If you need to nerf that interaction, there is always the Stacked Deck method of locking out other blue/red users as a passive on Hawkeye. He, like Kitty, isn't exactly the problem alone. (i'm not a proponent of that move, just saying we've seen it done elsewhere)
    Why do you assume that every player working on a 5 is able to play in SCL10?

    I assume the majority of players are NOT able to play there.

    Now, maybe Hawkeye is the wrong choice for those players, but who knows what someone will do.

    Also, also.....when it's a year or more between appearances as a 5E, while your point is well made for high level (SCL10) players, you still would be stuck deciding to pause your progress until that 5E rolls around or keep going for what could well now be a pointless cover.  (If the nerf means you no longer care about that 5, being able to complete the cover is less important than the fact that those 300 shards would have served you better on someone else but you're stuck.)

    But I also understand there are different points of view on this matter.
    I think it's fairly safe to assume that anyone who has 300 Hawkeye shards now (which requires opening ~100 LTs, or having a level ~300 Kate bishop, has access to CL10, even if they don't enjoy playing it very much).  MPQ is so rng-heavy that it's very hard to get that many resources on 1 particular character without also acquring a whole bunch of other stuff.

    Edited to correct typos.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    bluewolf said:
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    If you're 300 shards into Hawkeye, next SCL10 pve will put him over. the "wasted shards" argument is not highly valuable to me anymore given this new normal.

    If you need to nerf that interaction, there is always the Stacked Deck method of locking out other blue/red users as a passive on Hawkeye. He, like Kitty, isn't exactly the problem alone. (i'm not a proponent of that move, just saying we've seen it done elsewhere)
    Why do you assume that every player working on a 5 is able to play in SCL10?

    I assume the majority of players are NOT able to play there.

    Now, maybe Hawkeye is the wrong choice for those players, but who knows what someone will do.

    Also, also.....when it's a year or more between appearances as a 5E, while your point is well made for high level (SCL10) players, you still would be stuck deciding to pause your progress until that 5E rolls around or keep going for what could well now be a pointless cover.  (If the nerf means you no longer care about that 5, being able to complete the cover is less important than the fact that those 300 shards would have served you better on someone else but you're stuck.)

    But I also understand there are different points of view on this matter.
    I think it's fairly safe to assume that anyone who has 300 Hawkeye shards now (which requires opening ~100 LTs, or having a level ~300 Kate bishop, has access to CL10, (even if they don't enjoy playing it very much).  MPQ is so rng-heavy that it's very to get that many resources on 1 particular character without also acquring a whole bunch of other stuff.
    Fair enough.  Although there is the shard store, and you can target Kate to chase 5HE shards, and hey! There was a 5HE bundle that people spent actual cash on just the other day.

    Again, nerfs are fraught with risk, especially when a game is very old and most of the people playing are long time vets, at least some of whom are looking for a reason to exit.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    I don't think that there is a need  to nerf HE/worthy  in particular. 

    The stunner Bros might be decent candidates for a nerf (at least insofar as when they play against 5* teams). But there the obvious change is to prevent their passives from ever triggering from pure match damage alone (powers fine, match + strikes, fine; but never from just match damage). Do that and they fall back into line with other useful teams (they would be strong against certain opponents and weak against others and totally non-warping to the pvp defensive meta).

    And that is a very specific pvp problem.  It's not an issue in pve at all IMO.
  • Loosie
    Loosie Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker
    I can’t believe they went with BrokenCap and 5HE again. It’s like they want people to stop playing.
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,786 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020

    No i didnt do another clear of nodes on the 1st sub after 24 hours.  As someone else iterated, thats not usually needed.

    And to echo that post further, i had the same amount of points by the end of the 2nd.  Seems like im not alone in my methods.

    As nice as that spreadsheet is, the current method of "clear each node until the timer pops up" works decently well for majority of situations.  This is assuming that, like me, you only care about full progression.

    There are rare times that i need to clear something an extra amount of times, but its okay - i can mentally chalk it up to a sort of 'karma' for all the times i dont have to do all of what are normally necessary clears in the last day of a PvE.

    Edited to remove unnecessary extra comment.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    . bluewolf said:
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    If you're 300 shards into Hawkeye, next SCL10 pve will put him over. the "wasted shards" argument is not highly valuable to me anymore given this new normal.

    If you need to nerf that interaction, there is always the Stacked Deck method of locking out other blue/red users as a passive on Hawkeye. He, like Kitty, isn't exactly the problem alone. (i'm not a proponent of that move, just saying we've seen it done elsewhere)
    Why do you assume that every player working on a 5 is able to play in SCL10?

    [...]

    Sure, but the PVP cycle seems to be on a different timer than the PVE cycle, so now that SCL10 and 5* progression/placement shards exist in quantities WAY above 3 per legendary pull, you're going to 

    a) have shards you aren't chasing in increasingly bizarre amounts over time as long as you're playing at an SCL that's giving them out in either mode
    b) have to chase shards for less time than you would have done before SCL10 and event-given shards existed

    I get it that not everybody is in SCL10, but the shard-flow is WAY higher now than it was at first launch

    For instance, my Shard Target has been Gladiathor since before SCL10 went live. I've not targeted anyone else at the 5* tier, and i have just from showing up to progression in SCL10 or random 4* rewards:

    Profe$$or X: 350
    5torm: 0
    Bobby: 0
    Gho5t Rider: 100
    BRB: 125 (after getting a full cover)
    Rescue: 0
    Doom: 60
    Okoye: 100 (these are maybe from that shard vault)
    JJ: 0
    lumbercap: 333
    Hawkeye: 0
    5* Lord: 0
    Thano5: 0
    DD5: 40
    Kitty: 250
    Thor: 432 (all from favoriting)
    Bolt: 40
    5trange: 340
    OML: 0
    Gambit: 0
    FA Cap: 40
    Phoenix: 300
    surfer: 100
    banner: 0
    archangel: 100
    Panther: 30
    BSSM: 0
    Parker: 0
    Nata5ha: 325
    Oc: 30
    Fi5k: 100
    Cable: 40
    Hela: 0
    Danver5: 30
    Carbage: 365
    Loki: 100
    Iron Man: 0
    Wa5p: 100
    Goblin: 100
    Sinister: 0


  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
    I dont have any problem with them. If I got unlucky and I got caught in his web, well the next time I got unstunned I will finish cap.
    I think the aim of all that is getting stronger, not nerfing units. Or if one particular team is out of your range, dont hit it.
    Also there are tactics to figure out fighting those teams. Its up to the player to balance the posible damage of fighting each team too.
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,786 Chairperson of the Boards
    OJSP said:
    PiMacleod said:

    No i didnt do another clear of nodes on the 1st sub after 24 hours.  As someone else iterated, thats not usually needed.

    There are rare times that i need to clear something an extra amount of times, but its okay - i can mentally chalk it up to a sort of 'karma' for all the times i dont have to do all of what are normally necessary clears in the last day of a PvE.

    Well, what I'm saying is: the 5th clears in a 48 hour sub is needed, to ensure that you don't need to do more clears on the other nodes like you described. In Deadpool vs MPQ, with just 2 48 hour subs, we've needed more than 4 clears of all nodes to reach progression since they updated the rewards. Due to the points variation between CL6-10 and the number of times they've updated the rewards list, I've kinda lost track of which nodes we could safely skip. So, I was suggesting to use the spreadsheet to actually calculate the points.

    And to echo that post further, i had the same amount of points by the end of the 2nd.  Seems like im not alone in my methods.

    I don't understand this: your points is the same of whose? And which points? For the sub or the whole event?

    As nice as that spreadsheet is, the current method of "clear each node until the timer pops up" works decently well for majority of situations.  This is assuming that, like me, you only care about full progression.

    That's right. It usually works unless there's a mistake by the developers when setting up the rewards table (usually on the calculation of wave node points or forgetting to take into account the 48 hour subs) or when they changed some nodes around (when they introduced 5* essential nodes before and challenge nodes in CL10) including their point values (like in this event).

    So, to give yourself a better chance to reach progression in case there's a mistake on the developers' calculations, I suggested using the spreadsheet. It wasn't a criticism to your method, I was just trying to help figure out why you were short on points after the 1st sub. Anyhow, it might be better to miss the end of the 1st sub anyway if we're not playing optimally, as the nodes in the 1st sub are generally harder than the 2nd. So, I think you did good.

    I took no criticism from it.  We're all good.  I thank you for the suggestions too.

    I only post these things to alert those that, like me, do not research such things, in hopes to warn others.

    Which... In retrospect... Is kinda silly, because you're gonna find out the hard way eventually!  Eh, oh well.
  • Glockoma
    Glockoma Posts: 555 Critical Contributor
    Cosmic Chaos, 1st sub: GED and Domino are a great pairing. I brought in Dr. Strange for stuns and AP control. 

    I flew through the matches. With minor speed bumps. Have to watch out for trigger SJW Cap, otherwise pretty feasible. I beat up on Peggy to reduce the cost and eventually stunned her over Cap. My approach was to match red blue green. I let them heal Doom with other matches, played keep away with red and blue, then stunned Peggy and spammed Domino’s green to build a hefty black cache. I then proceeded to 2-3 shot SJW Cap with Doom’s black. The rest is history.

    My Doom is level 471, Domino 270something and Strange at 435. 
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,786 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2020
    Challenge Node: Savage Beasts

    Carn5ge/Ven1m/Mutation

    At first glance, this looks HORRIBLE.  Mutation has that Guard Dog passive, which states that you're gonna take damage whenever ANYONE matches one of the enemy's SAP tiles.  And with Carnage out there, there'll be plenty.

    The Mutation also means that they'll passively generate red and green -- both colors which Carnage uses actively.  So if the enemy isn't throwing out an annoying CD (one of which generates MORE SAP tiles), then Carnage is causing extra damage, which isn't wanted by any means.

    I have NO clue why Venom is there.  Maybe as a black AP user?  Because his purple doesn't even stun!  He's the least of your worries.

    I target Mutation first, then Carnage.

    Anyways, despite Carnage being out there.... despite the extra turns they may gain from my own SAP tiles, I couldn't help but try my tried-n-true...

    Kitty/Valk/GEDoom (boosted)

    @Daredevil217 is rolling his eyes right now...

    However, it worked rather well!  Bounty Hunter kept their green real low -- unusable by them throughout the match.  I didn't have enough tiles for Carnage to get extra turns until a couple turns into the match, which is kinda normal for Carnage anyways.  By that turn, Kitty had started buffing strike tiles, and had enough yellow to put some protects out.  Plus, Carnage is giving out friendly Attack tiles... so that's a bonus double dip for your buffed attacks.

    Make sure Doom is in front as a tank (duh), Fire off his black when you can.  I have a rank 2 Victorious on him, which helps with healing, but also deals out that team damage (which is buffed by those kitty/valk strikes!) when you heal your comrades with yellow.  The cascades help tremendously to eliminate the enemies.

    If Kitty or Valk didn't take any damage yet, then just use Kitty's yellow instead.  Don't go shuffling the board without actually healing -- the protect tiles will be buffed by Kitty, and keep Doom around longer.  I only used Doom's yellow if either teammate was hurt.  The damage and shuffling are bonuses, because these challenge fights are marathons, not sprints.

    Doom may die throughout the fight, but he'll take out all of the enemy SAP tiles with him, so they have a clean slate to deal with, and you have all of your awesome stuff left behind.  

    This worked for my first two clears.  I didn't dare try it on my third, as I read the signs that 2nd match was giving me...

    So, for 3 and 4, I cleared with good ol' Hawk5ye/Hammercap/G4mora.

    No new strat for that.  I keep the tile movers stunned more often.  Sometimes I'd let the Mutation sit out there unstunned because he wasn't bothering me directly.  Although, I still target him 2nd for Gamora's black insta-kill... because he's deadlier than Venom!

    Good luck to you!
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Glockoma said:
    Cosmic Chaos, 1st sub: GED and Domino are a great pairing. I brought in Dr. Strange for stuns and AP control. 

    I flew through the matches. With minor speed bumps. Have to watch out for trigger SJW Cap, otherwise pretty feasible. I beat up on Peggy to reduce the cost and eventually stunned her over Cap. My approach was to match red blue green. I let them heal Doom with other matches, played keep away with red and blue, then stunned Peggy and spammed Domino’s green to build a hefty black cache. I then proceeded to 2-3 shot SJW Cap with Doom’s black. The rest is history.

    My Doom is level 471, Domino 270something and Strange at 435. 
    SJW Cap? I don’t get it. I like the team though.
  • MoosePrime
    MoosePrime Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    PiMacleod said:
    Challenge Node: Savage Beasts

    Carn5ge/Ven1m/Mutation

    ...

    I have NO clue why Venom is there.  Maybe as a black AP user?  Because his purple doesn't even stun!  He's the least of your worries.
    Does Venom stun on later clears?

    I've seen other nodes use undercovered enemies for the first clear, increasing the covers when the levels are increased.

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