Feedback Wanted: Character Balance

12467…29

Comments

  • supergarv
    supergarv Posts: 410 Mover and Shaker
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Hope this poll brings us somewhere - don't you dare to nerf 5Thanos or 4Grocket without providing an alternative to get this mess of a timeconsuming PVE grind done with quickly.

    (I'm all for nerfing them and making us only 1x a node in PVE and get autoplay for the other 3 repeats, so pick your poison)
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Everybody is shouting about 5* and Bishop's etc, but having just champed him can I just say: Please help The Thing! For a huge orange lump of rock he is pathetic. You "balanced" Invisible Woman & Mister Fantastic in the past so can't you round out the team and help Aunt Petunia's everlovin' blue eyed nephew out?


  • McThunderpants
    McThunderpants Posts: 59 Match Maker
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I also think if the expectation is to bust out the nerf gun as opposed to buffing toons, then thought may need to also be given around better MMR. While a lot of 4*/5* players hate the bishop/worthy combo, I think a lot of newer 4* players are just as frustrated by getting destroyed by 450+ opponents in scl7. If the playing field is going to be leveled through reductions, then it should be unilateral across all playing tiers. That requirement is one of the many reasons nerfing is not the answer here.
  • y4747
    y4747 Posts: 165 Tile Toppler
    edited January 2020
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    i think lots of characters need a buff of some degree, while a couple need a gentle nerf.

    nerf:
    tl;dr:
    change bishop/worthy triggers to be above normal match 3 but below rbg strikes and thor green/cascades.

    i'll join the choir of bishop/worthy - it doesn't make sense to me that a couple of 4*s rule the 5* meta.

    but i believe they can still fill their role of being a decent gritty counter, as well as a moderate deterrent and a way to punch up, without being a near-guaranteed stunlock vs. 5*s. what we need is to aim their trigger to be above a match-3 of the stronger 5*s at 450~470, but below the first gritty hit or thor's green, and possibly even below a match-4.
    the goal is that you can reasonably win a fight against them, and not trigger their passive, if you're careful, and don't bring one of the meta teams. this will promote a bit more of the rock-paper-etc that we're looking for - instead of just plain skipping them or mirroring them, switch to a slightly-less-meta but still good team, say, px+icy+storm.

    buff:
    again repeat what others have said:
    revamp terrible, unused 5*'s powers - banner, wasp, rescue, kp, carol to a degree
    update health+damage of old 5*s with decent powers - phnx, banner (yes, again), widow, goblin

    there a few useless toons in the 4* tier, but with 90 toons it's inevitable that some will be. talos, emma, mrf, falcap come to mind. buffing those seems a low priority to me.

    a final word on counters:
    tl;dr: if you're making a counter, make damn sure it is a good character overall and not just for the counter, otherwise it won't be used.

    counters are a great mechanism that really helps with rock-paper-etc. the issue is that for a counter to be effective, it can't stand alone - it needs to be part of a decent set, otherwise it is effectively never used.

    examples:

    bss vs. gritty/rbg and ss vs. stuns  - they are ok toons. but just ok. they have a counter power, which is good, a cheap one, which is decent, and i can count on three fingers the times i've fired ss black or bss green.

    kraven vs gritty/rbg - a perfect example. that is a very effective counter, but
    a. it isn't enough to counter kitty (increase>reduction),
    b. his other powers are so bad i really don't remember what they do. you have a toon with the absolute perfect counter to rbg, probably the most widely used 4*, and no one uses him.

  • rdvargas1
    rdvargas1 Posts: 77 Match Maker
    edited January 2020
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Buff, buff, buff!!
    5* Hulk, and hulk in this game in general, is SOOO under powered. He should be one of the strongest characters in every tier. 
    Phoenix should also be one of the strongest toons along with Silver Surfer. 
    Goblin, Starlord, black Suit Spidey, Wasp, Kingpin. Civil War Cap and IM. 
    Old Man Logan should be returned to his previous state, and Gambit should be returned to about 75% of his old self. 
    I don’t like nerfs in general, but Bishop is just crazy. 
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
    To all the buffer fans. Suppose you buff all the 5*'s to work as well as kitty, thor, okoye, they still will be stunned for 4 turns after their second move. Just buffing is not the answer imo.

    Either a group of counters for bishop/worthy get released or they need adjusted. Kitty plus special tile spammers is a problem for lower tiers. There have been a decent chunk of characters released designed to counter her specialty. Bishop all on his own is a problem for the entirety of the 5* tier. Worthy pretty much needs 5* hawkeye as a teammate to really go off. And there is no 5* character that can avoid making a match 3 and getting overclocked by bishop or triggering worthy cap. 

    Making a match 3 vs bishop as a 5* player is actively losing the match for you. You gain 3 ap and do around 1k damage to him, he hits you for 2k damage and gains 5 blue then gets to take his own turn. His team is guaranteed to get 8 ap to your 3 every turn and do more damage. That is broken.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    When these eventual adjustments are made in either direction, please do a blog post describing the concept and reasoning, and then also please engage with that conversation.

    Especially if you nerf multiple characters off of a poll that only currently carries a less than 20% support for such action! And that is on a forum crammed with veteran players... :*:#
  • DeNappa
    DeNappa Posts: 1,396 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Without having read the thread yet (so I might be echoing things people have already mentioned) here's my thoughts. Will have time to read through this thread later.

    My vote was "Some characters could use super soldier serum". However, this is mostly based on the sentiment that there's a lot of pretty mediocre or outright bad characters around. Some have been so from the start, some have simply faded away by powercreep of newer releases, some have been nerfed too harshly before (judging by today's standards). I'm still disappointed by Namor who is such a cool character but pretty underperforming in MPQ. It's not possible or necessary to make every character top tier, but man have there been some duds.

    So while my vote is on that, I still think the first priority should be a nerf to Bishop and Hammercap. Bishop's AP generation in 5* matches is just broken. And while Cap's brokenness is mostly tied to teaming him with 5*Hawkeye for absurd AP gain, it's still a bad mechanic. Anyway, not recapping several months worth of threads here, I think the sentiment is well documented by now.
  • A_Wise_Man
    A_Wise_Man Posts: 153 Tile Toppler
    Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder
        Rebalancing isnt going to be easy, but some characters definitely need a nerf.  
    Rocket needs a nerf/rebalance to fix the broken rocket kitty team.  Bishop and cap need a nerf because they make even more broken teams. 
        I get people wanting to punch up but no 4 star should be stronger/more effective than any 5 star, never mind 85% of the 5 stars.  You want to punch up? Either play smarter or move up.  
       Fix the above posted **** and then maybe do some rebalancing in the 5 star tier in regards to HP and match damage.  I mean, you keep releasing characters and go "you know, we need a guy with higher match damage and health than every previous 5 star" and then wonder why it's so unbalanced.  Stop making that guy.  We already have the guy with the higher health and damage, we don't need that guy.  
  • jp1
    jp1 Posts: 1,081 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    I’m only interested in seeing buffs. Same as most others I think they should be applied to all mediocre or trash tier 5s. It is a crime to have such a difficult to acquire toon be as bad as Wa5p or Banner.

    HammerCap is way worse than Bishop to me, but I don’t really care if he sticks around as is, I can beat both of them (him and Bishop) fairly consistently even if I can’t use my ideal teams to do it.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,759 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    thanks for posting and looking to get feedback and hopefully do something with existing characters.  I said buff focusing on the 5* tier.  Here are a list of characters I feel could use a sip to multiple injections of Super Soldier sauce.

    OML, Phoenix, SS, BW, GG, BSSM, civil war cap and IM need a sip.  They are just a little out dated and but their power sets are still good.  Might just need a little bump to knock the rust off.

    Captain Marvel, Carnage, GR, Captain America IW, Star Lord, Doc Ock, gambit need a big gulp so that would mean 1-2 mechanic changes and a bump in power.

    Wasp, KP, Loki, Banner, Rescue need double doses and possibly Gama ray exposure.  They probably need big reworks to their power sets and more play testing.

    for Nerfs the combo of Thor Okoye and Kitty Grocket probably needs to be looked at and most importantly Bishop and 4* cap need to be toned down.  I truly believe no character should have both a passive to jump in front and then an additional passive saying if they take X damage y happens.  They should have one or the other.

    if I didn’t mention a 5* it is because I think they are fairly balanced and solid.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Standardizing the way character powers work and are worded would go a long way towards soft-buffing a lot of lower tier characters. Here is a thread detailing all the edge cases I could find for Wakanda Forever! for instance. There are odd edge cases up and down the * tiers in here:

    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/79221/wakanda-forever-how-does-it-even-work/p1

    Some sweeping buffs you could do via a new power is to finally introduce a character who can mess with repeater tile burndown lengths - give an old character like Flaptain or Goblin the ability to do this and you fix a lot of characters that were DOA for being too slow (frost, danver5, loki, fi5k, robbie reyes, post-nerf gambit, etc). It's possible though that it would just increase the Kitty stranglehold by incrementing Circuit Breaker faster than normal.
  • peterdark
    peterdark Posts: 151 Tile Toppler
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    I find it amusing that someone with cosmic powers is on the same level as say Clint (no offence to Hawkeye)  :p




  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    Buff a character to be a direct counter of Bishop.  For example give Invisible Woman (4*) a new passive that nullified all boosted damage and only allow regular damage.  This would give a direct counter to Bishop, but she wouldn't become OP and become the new meta, just a counter to the current OP meta.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    peterdark said:
    I find it amusing that someone with cosmic powers is on the same level as say Clint (no offence to Hawkeye)  :p





    Hey Hawkeye once held his own against the cosmic powered Collector!
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,454 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    Some characters could use super soldier serum
    It should be noted that SCL7 in PVP doesn't gate any of your opponents that you will be fighting from match to match, just groups you with whose scores you are trying to compete for placement against. PVP's MMR scales with your roster regardless of which SCL you pick. So if you're seeing 450+ 5* teams that you queue up offensively (not retaliations), it's because your roster is meeting whatever that criteria is. That's why those of us with multiple 5* champs are only seeing people using near-max-champ Bishops, with their Jessica Joneses or 5tranges or whomever. 

    I've said since the introduction of Shield Clearance Levels that the terms should not be overloaded like that, and it either DOES need to gate your opponents (and your own roster) by some meaningful level cap, or it needs to be renamed to be less misleading to players that think they are helping themselves in some way by choosing a lower rank there.

    Having said that though - this is where a qualitative analysis of characters comes into play. For instance, i once queued up somebody whose only 5* champion was Wa5p, who must be living a sad, sad life. At the time my only 5* champ was Ghost Rider Robbie Reyes. Almost universally I was seeing people with single-champ Kitty Prydes, and as you can imagine, the qualitative difference between GRRR and KP is a wide, wide berth. So sure, we both have a single 5* champ, but there was 0 parity there.

Categories