Feedback Wanted: Character Balance

elvy75

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

I voted nerf because I believe most broken characters in the game right now, to the point of making me want to stop playing (even though I got them both) are bishop and worthy cap. 

I agree with other people that older 5* need to be buffed though, like Phoenix  oml, banner, etc

IceIX

justsing said:

I don't know what to vote because why do I have to choose between nerfs and buffs? Why not both?

If I could (easily) make a multi-poll with this forum software, I would. Alas.

What I would take that poll as is more of:
Keep characters largely the same
Bring upper characters down to the same level
Bring lower characters up to the same level

You may have a preferred method of doing so, but some people like high end nerfs, others like low end bring ups. Same *general* end result in "balance", but different feel in doing so.

AlexR

Some characters could use super soldier serum

starlord1982 said:

Nerf bishop and hammercap. There is no reason for them to be overpowering for 5s but to be so weak against their own tier. For instance xfdp is very good in his tier, he can even slightly punch upward but he is not meta where most 5* rosters would skip over him. 
The saddest thing about bishop is in SIM every season, where people will float for 2 weeks without losing points. Is it kitty or r4g that people are skipping? Nope is the instant stun lock of bishop. 

Actually, yes there is. Bishop and Worthy are the 4* tier's answer to the relentless Gritty spam that ruled supreme in 4* land. These characters work great as counters to the 5* that haunts and torments 4* land and that's imo what these two were clearly designed for.

So while there should be some fix for 5* players, just nerfhammering Bishop/Worthy would result in taking 4* land's primary Kitty counters away. very much do not want.  

JRYUART

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

thank you for focusing on this specific issue.  I believe that character rebalancing, along with a new MMR algorithm, are two important issues that should be discussed. 

that said, give us a reason to use a larger part of our roster.  this can be done by refreshing some of the old characters who have become obsolete because their stats have not been updated to reflect the current state of the game.  however, because both pve and pvp both have speed as part of the strategy to winning, most people gravitate towards meta toons that strike a balance between power and speed (and resiliency to some extent).  

if you are to rebalance characters, keep in mind the actual situations in which they will be used and if buffing/nerfing them are actually compelling enough for them to still have viability.  i have seen players who have broken hoard to get 3 latest 550's only to see them using non-maxxed champed thorkoye in PVP.  what does this say about the state of the game if the chase to optimize your characters for dmg/heatlth/speed is made moot when there is an alternative meta team that just performs better? simply adjusting their stats/powers has to be considered within context of the actual game-play situations (not theorized based on your behind the scene stats) in which they will be used. 

if anything, i hope that this pointed discussion about rebalance (along with the conditional PVP events like Evergreen) is an indication that the devs are open to introducing new modes of play where time and speed don't force us to brute force our way to victory.  a non-timed, conditional puzzle mode that allowed us to use the majority of a revamped/rebalaned roster would be very welcome.  

huktonfonix

I honestly think character balance is the best it has ever been.  There are definitely severely overpowered and underpowered characters, but there have never been so many viable team combinations at all tiers of play and such a healthy rock/paper/scissors metagame in terms of answers to the top teams.

This diversity still only represents about two dozen viable characters on my roster of 300 though, so there is ample room for improvement.

ursopro

I mean, come on!

KGB

Some characters could use super soldier serum

Buff the older weaker characters especially match damage wise / health in the 5* tier. At least 10-15 bottom tier 4* need a full revamp of their power set and 4-5 bottom tier 5* do as well. Start with fixing match damage/health since that's easier to do & test and then tackle the reworks.

Save the nerfs for after the buffs and reworks so we can see what nerfs need to still be done (perhaps some reworks or new characters will eliminate need for nerfs if say a 5* character got the ability to negate passive AP gain).

KGB

McThunderpants

Some characters could use super soldier serum

Don’t nerf anyone. The player base has had enough of that. Just raise weaker characters to provide a better balance and allow for better competition and expand the meta.

bluewolf

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

Do something about dilution and maybe I will be more supportive of the idea of buffs.  But yes, buffs would be nice.

Most of the buffs we have seen in recent years (few as they are) have been small lateral moves.  Doc Ock was properly upgraded in the match damage and health areas but received a very lateral move power-wise (some say a downgrade).  Almost every rebalance is predicated by "we are going to leave the flavor of this character as-is" and therefore powersets just end up looking a little different.

But regardless of how well future buffs are handled there are just some problem characters that I don't see the counters as being any better (if they are even possible).  We've had 28 characters since Bishop debuted yet he's still all over pick-3 PVP.

Every. Single. Time.

entrailbucket

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

Thor is the only answer. 

Bishop and 4* cap/Hawkeye are annoying and all, but 5* Thor generates 2000 free ap every turn.  If you nerf Thor it also fixes Okoye.  He's super old now, so new players will never get him; you'd only be affecting jaded old vets anyway. 

It's time.  Kill him.

leoperez90

Some characters could use super soldier serum

let me start by saying thank you for taking the time to hear out us out in this!!

honestly it doesnt bother me that bishop/hammer cap are the way they are, for one it helps 4* land characters attack 5* rosters. those two are still beatable but players just dont hit them because its health pack heavy (i think this is the case) to hit a wave of them in a climb.

i do agree with alot of the opinons here where we need to bring up 4* and 5* to a competitive state, i still dont have all the 5* fully roster because i just dont care to do so because theyre just gonna sit in the bench and only be used in pve.

i have a few ideas to see if it helps with fixing this without touching the "Over powered" characters.
 1.simply make a character that nullifies or stops passives for a brief second or whether its at the start of the turn or a countdown tile, or repeater tile.
 2.make a balance of teams where we have to use a mix of 4*/5* (synergy) that helps you have the upper hand in a match.
 3. this is something we already kinda have but to have more counter character to these characters so that way characters have a weakness to another character. 

 thank you!! excited to see the results of this.

jackstar0

Some characters could use super soldier serum

Buff a lot (classic 5*s especially, and Banner/Hulk double-especially). Mmmmmaybe nerf a couple (Bish and Worthy).

fight4thedream

Some characters could use super soldier serum

I am a big advocate for a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock meta but under such a meta no team is safe. There are strengths and vulnerabilities and players would have to think more strategically before engaging an opponent team and it increases the likelihood you will get hit by someone who has a good counter team. It also means there will be times when there are teams you have a high risk of losing to if you don't bring a proper counter team.

I acknowledge that the stun brothers, namely Bishop and Worthy Cap, seem to be a problem for a fair amount of players in the 5* tier. I contend, however, they wouldn't be so problematic if there were better solutions to their jump-in-front and stun abilities.  Instead of nerfing them, I would rather the dev team come up with viable solutions that either neutralizes or punishes said mechanics.  Silver Surfer and 5* Black Widow are two characters that have such abilities but are less than ideal for the following reasons:


In the case of Silver Surfer, his low damage output and health makes him susceptible to the consistent damage output from the opponent team and he struggles to put the kibosh on Bishop in an effective manner. I recommend increasing his health pool, match damage and damage output from the Cosmic Beam. 

In the case of Black Widow, her passive ability and AP costs need a serious rework. Specifically, her passive should stun the opponent character in front and stun for at least 2 if not 3 turns. Additionally, either an AP steal or burn should be included in her passive that targets the opponent's largest AP pool. However, her AP costs need to be lowered as she is quite slow in the current meta. 

I would also like to see more characters in both the 4* and 5* tiers that have anti-stun mechanics and I would like to see counter abilities to the jump-in-front mechanic. I believe the stun mechanic should have a place in the rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock meta but currently it's a bit overwhelming for a lot players playing at the higher levels of PvP. 

Additionally, I too would like to see more events like Evergreen and Festival of Fights as they offer better opportunities to utilize more of my roster. A new game mode that focused on conditions would also be very much appreciated. 

As always, thank you for your hard work!

Edit to add: Also, having a store that features a character after their rework would also be helpful.

HoundofShadow

Some characters could use super soldier serum

Background info: 4* player with majority of 4* champed. Plays PvPs and PvEs competitively, but not competitive enough to join LINE.

Nerf

1. 5* Thor passive ap gain
2. Gritty's purple that overwrite those 4 special tiles.
3. Bishop

Reason for choosing Thor is because he's the measuring stick (due to gaining 5 aps per turn) for future 5* characters. In order to replace Thor, someone need to be better than what Thor is doing.

Reason for choosing Bishop is so that we have something new to talk about here.

The only threat Hammercap presents is him taking forever for his CDs to finish. He's only good with C4rol/R4G and 5* Hawkeye. 

 
Generally speaking, I prefer buffs and hard counters more than nerfs because

1. meta comes and goes
2. putting together teams to beat meta teams is like solving puzzles.

If the dev decided to buff characters, especially 5* characters, make sure they fall into meta or good tier. If not, you are wasting your time. I think the reworked 5* Dr Ock is a good example. He still belongs to the bottom tier even with increased match damage and higher damage.

Southside84

Some characters could use super soldier serum

First, I'm wholly against nerfs.  That being said, unpopular opinion: nerf Rocket4. 

You complain about bishop at the end of shield sim, but who are the two people on either side of him?  In my experience, it's Gritty.

Wanna talk about a character in every fight?  Rocket has overpowered pairings with kitty, gamora4, bishop, hammercap/c4rol, juggernaut, and medusa/carnage.  

You shouldn't nerf anyone.  Make the other 5s and 4s worthwhile.

Buffs for everyone

Kingart813

Some characters could use super soldier serum

No nerfs, buff the older characters, and lower ap cost.

froggerjohn

Some characters could use super soldier serum

I experience a great deal of enjoyment using characters like Bishop and Worthy against the really hard Boss events, that would otherwise be a struggle (and/or, take too much time).

I don't deny that these characters punch above their weight, but that's REALLY fun for lower rosters that don't get to experience Thorkoye, or other high-end dealth-dealing metas. I can't express strongly enough how much I appreciate MPQ giving us some real power opportunities in the 4* tier. Not to mention just being basic survival when we're matched against high-level PvE opponents.

I almost quit the game several months ago, after feeling rather stagnant, but now with the addition of Juggs and Worthy, I'm having more fun than ever. If this was a deliberate effort on your part to inject some excitement and capability into the 4* tier, it was absolutely Mission Accomplished!

If you nerf those incredibly useful characters, it really hurts the ability for younger rosters to enjoy the full spectrum of MPQ.

Being a 4* player, I don't personally experience the frustration of Bishop/Worthy being OP against the 5* tier.
What I do experience however, is being pummeled by three champed 5*s, sometimes 550s, despite me having no champed 5s of my own.

Rather than nerf characters, I hope there are better options to more directly relieve the dominant over-appearance of them in PvP. I believe the problem would go away, if people didn't run into a 'wall' of such characters.

Examples:
- More events with character restrictions, or other elements to stir up the common suspects
- Some kind of buffing or other benefit for changing your PvP team between matches (or restriction on char re-use)
- Expand the number of buffed characters each week, to make it more likely that it will generate useful combos besides the really common ones (this makes sense anyway, since there are more characters overall)
- Adjust matchmaking somehow to keep opponents more even. If you take three 5*s, you only see other teams of three 5*s, and now there's no more Bishop.
- Maybe consider leaving shielded teams in the queue, if it helps alleviate a shortage of opponents otherwise.

And finally, and back to the topic at hand, let's rework some of those characters that no one ever uses. You know, the ones people make fun of. Flaptain, Emma, 5Wasp, etc. If you beef up these and other 'useless' characters, along with expanding the buff list, new combinations are bound to show up, and that means a breath of fresh air for everyone involved.

Pongie

Some characters could use super soldier serum

Always prefer a buff over a nerf. A nerf would lead to more players asking for compensation.

edit: An idea I had to get around the damage trigger threshold was to have abilities that doesn't count as damage. Mtg used to have separation between life lost and damage dealt where lost of life did not count as damage. 

JHawkInc

Some characters could use a dusting of nerf powder

Both ends need fixing. Roads work best when they're smooth, and we've got both pot holes and debris (lower/upper ends away from the level center of the road) that need fixing, and the tactics to fix one will not fix the other.

I can't answer this poll, because I can't select both options. Nobody is going to use Sam Wilson Captain America if Bishop is STILL better. That goes for both an improved Sam, and a weaker Bishop. It doesn't matter which end you grab and move towards the center (balancing that character compared to the rest) if the other end is still an outlier.

In a perfect world, you could bring up weaker characters, and in turn, provide new methods to work against stronger characters, and by improving the rock-paper-scissors dynamic tackle both ends at once. But if you don't approach it that way, it won't happen. And there is not a poll option that lets me say "You should approach both sides at the same time."

ThaRoadWarrior

Some characters could use super soldier serum

I went with Buffs. 5* characters are very hard to get, and they fundamentally change your experience in PVP to an irreversible degree (short of selling them off). there absolutely should not be a Trash Tier 5*.

there are a lot of 4*s in the game, but some are so bad it is baffling how they ended up that way, so I’m in favor of buffs there too.

i agree that Bishop and WCap are ubiquitous, and are a little hard to deal with. I’d rather see more counters to them than nerfs. if they do get nerfed, cutting the stun length down from 4 turns is probably all you have to do.

The reality though is that a new release character is going to be easier for me to get than a classic rework due to dilution and the relentless pace of new releases.

i also agree that 4ocket is a large part of a lot of troubling synergies, but I think there have been plenty of good counters to him.

I like the novel PVP events, but what made them fun for the most part were the Meta teams being locked out, thus effectively buffing all my characters.