***** Carnage (Prophet of Knull) *****

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Comments

  • jp1jp1 Posts: 536 Critical Contributor
    There is no way they are going to quantify the value of a newly released 5*. 

    That spells trouble for them no matter how you cut it. Even if they had permission to do so, it would inevitably cause backlash on the forums and elsewhere from those who don’t agree. It’s lose/lose.
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,182 Chairperson of the Boards
    RickOShay said:
    Taking a PvP look at Carnage vs a Thorkoye (non-Gritty) team, where the 3* essential does not spam special tiles: 

    Turn 1: Make any match, while prioritizing red

    Turn 2: No enemy special tiles are out, so Carnage creates 2x 195 enemy attack tiles
    (assume you can't match them away, and you probably don't want to yet. Black and Red are at cover level 5)

    Turn 3: Beginning of turn, there's only 2 enemy attack tiles (eAT) are out, so create 2x 195 attacks again (assume you still cannot / don't want to match them yet)

    Turn 4: If all 4 of these eAT's are present, you now earn a free random match and then create a 322 Strike tile. Now make your own match, but do you want to avoid matching eAT's away? You might, since the Strike tile and a free match may be more valuable than an additional friendly attack tile (fAT).
    (keep in mind that if the enemy matches away their own attack tiles you will be kept waiting for more to earn the Strike and free match)

    Turn 5a:
    Carnage makes another free match if you kept 4x eAT on the board. Did that free match take away an eAT? Or, can you? Yay, Create 1x 168 fAT to compliment the additional Strike tile you now have.
    Turn 5b: 
    Perhaps you still managed to avoid matching away all eAT's. You will then only have 2x 322 Strikes now.
    (green must be at cover level 3 if red and black are at level 5)

    Turn 6:  By now you've certainly gotten 6 red AP, right? Well that's fine but you still don't want to fire Blood Fued since you only have 2 or 3 special tiles.
    The enemy has 3 or 4 attack tiles at the beginning of this turn. So Carnage either creates 2 additional for them for 5 total - or - you earn a free match and a Strike tile. Try to match one away buddy! Even weak attack tiles carry Strike tile damage with them.

    Turn 7:  Did you match one away? Whether you did or not, Carnage is probably earning a free turn here. But, even with the added Strike tiles you may Still have just 3 special tiles out, since things can easily get matched away.. and you are playing with a / 5* Carnage! \ on your team. 
    Now, match that purple attack tile away, that should help a lot!!

    Turn 8: By now you're learning that it's quite difficult for your 5* Carnage to get 4x friendly specials on the board to fire his cheap red ability to full effect. Did you bring Thor along? That's only 2 active damage abilities unless you run amazingly well on 21 yellow.


    *Important note: You need to understand the importance of the eAT and fAT acronyms, and that this was written during my lunch break. 
    A different piece to look at is if you bring 1/2 health DD as your partner.

    turn 2 get a DD strike tile and match 2 attack tile.

    turn 3 get 2nd DD strike and match an attack tile.  Now 2 friendly and 2 enemy attack tiles.  Player gets bonus 2000 damage roughly per turn.

    turn 4+ only match an enemy special tile if you have 6 red.  The reason why is you will drop to 3 enemy attack tiles and that will force Carnage to produce 2 enemy attack tiles letting you fire red for AOE damage.

    finally you goal should be to build up enough purple to stun Thor, but have enough strike and attack tiles on the board to kill him in 4 matches.  Remember you will get extra strike tiles from the enemy attack k tiles and DD passive damage will count on matches and on the attack tiles.  Carnage’s red should also allow DD to go back below 50% health to produce more strike tiles but should heal quickly.

    this is my ideal partner but I really do wish his strike tiles and attack tiles were bigger as DD is really the primary damage dealer on this team with his strike tiles at around 800.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,328 Chairperson of the Boards
    jp1 said:
    There is no way they are going to quantify the value of a newly released 5*. 

    That spells trouble for them no matter how you cut it. Even if they had permission to do so, it would inevitably cause backlash on the forums and elsewhere from those who don’t agree. It’s lose/lose.
    This is a more concise statement of what I was trying to express. 

    Asking this question puts Demi/d3 in a bad position and gets the players basically 0 useful feedback.  So IMO it's better to focus on seeking other feedback from Demi/d3 in the pre-/new release phase that doesn't require them to play this sort of lose/lose game.
  • KhanwulfKhanwulf Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
    Polares said:
    Man, I was hoping to break open my hoard (almost 400 pulls currently) when the latest legends pack is Prof X, carnage, whoever comes after carnage but it looks like I'm gonna have to keep hoarding and hope the 3 after carnage are worth pulling for.

    Man, you have enough pulls to get the 3 x-men now, still have some CPs afterwards, start hoarding again, ignore Carnage and then get the 3 after him :P
    This is my new plan: pull until I get PX purple. Then stop until Carnag5 leaves LL.

    Hi Devs. Thou hast failed.

    --Khanwulf
  • BuzzedLightbeerBuzzedLightbeer Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
    edited October 2019
    Khanwulf said:
    Polares said:
    Man, I was hoping to break open my hoard (almost 400 pulls currently) when the latest legends pack is Prof X, carnage, whoever comes after carnage but it looks like I'm gonna have to keep hoarding and hope the 3 after carnage are worth pulling for.

    Man, you have enough pulls to get the 3 x-men now, still have some CPs afterwards, start hoarding again, ignore Carnage and then get the 3 after him :P
    This is my new plan: pull until I get PX purple. Then stop until Carnag5 leaves LL.

    Hi Devs. Thou hast failed.

    --Khanwulf
    I documented my 300+ pull results in a separate thread, but after receiving 46 of these latest legends, I had a fully covered Storm, a level 454 Iceman...and a 7/0/9 Prof X.  That purple is awfully elusive...
  • leoperez90leoperez90 Posts: 52 Match Maker
    RickOShay said:
    Taking a PvP look at Carnage vs a Thorkoye (non-Gritty) team, where the 3* essential does not spam special tiles: 

    Turn 1: Make any match, while prioritizing red

    Turn 2: No enemy special tiles are out, so Carnage creates 2x 195 enemy attack tiles
    (assume you can't match them away, and you probably don't want to yet. Black and Red are at cover level 5)

    Turn 3: Beginning of turn, there's only 2 enemy attack tiles (eAT) are out, so create 2x 195 attacks again (assume you still cannot / don't want to match them yet)

    Turn 4: If all 4 of these eAT's are present, you now earn a free random match and then create a 322 Strike tile. Now make your own match, but do you want to avoid matching eAT's away? You might, since the Strike tile and a free match may be more valuable than an additional friendly attack tile (fAT).
    (keep in mind that if the enemy matches away their own attack tiles you will be kept waiting for more to earn the Strike and free match)

    Turn 5a:
    Carnage makes another free match if you kept 4x eAT on the board. Did that free match take away an eAT? Or, can you? Yay, Create 1x 168 fAT to compliment the additional Strike tile you now have.
    Turn 5b: 
    Perhaps you still managed to avoid matching away all eAT's. You will then only have 2x 322 Strikes now.
    (green must be at cover level 3 if red and black are at level 5)

    Turn 6:  By now you've certainly gotten 6 red AP, right? Well that's fine but you still don't want to fire Blood Fued since you only have 2 or 3 special tiles.
    The enemy has 3 or 4 attack tiles at the beginning of this turn. So Carnage either creates 2 additional for them for 5 total - or - you earn a free match and a Strike tile. Try to match one away buddy! Even weak attack tiles carry Strike tile damage with them.

    Turn 7:  Did you match one away? Whether you did or not, Carnage is probably earning a free turn here. But, even with the added Strike tiles you may Still have just 3 special tiles out, since things can easily get matched away.. and you are playing with a / 5* Carnage! \ on your team. 
    Now, match that purple attack tile away, that should help a lot!!

    Turn 8: By now you're learning that it's quite difficult for your 5* Carnage to get 4x friendly specials on the board to fire his cheap red ability to full effect. Did you bring Thor along? That's only 2 active damage abilities unless you run amazingly well on 21 yellow.


    *Important note: You need to understand the importance of the eAT and fAT acronyms, and that this was written during my lunch break. 
    Always finding the good in all characters 
  • Dancing_LassDancing_Lass Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    Happened to see this thread.

    Looking at his powers, I thought I am seeing a new 3-star release initially.

    It's actually quite a refreshing thought to do reverse development.... ie. Releasing a new 5-star that is weaker than its 4-star variant.

    This would help us to reduce spending.
  • Chrynos1989Chrynos1989 Posts: 112 Tile Toppler
    I see voices have been heard after prof x being essential right after release, I actually 👍 you guys decision to not continue that
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,603 Chairperson of the Boards
    RE:  Absolute Carnage's appearance.  Has anyone been reading the comic enough to comment on the fact that he looks like he has no abdominal organs?  Is it just Cletus Kasady's torso in there since he was once torn apart by Sentry?  Just wondering.  I read that he has been resurrected (maybe this is the second time) just before the storyline began.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,422 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2019

    Who are your other 5*?
    I have Thanos, Panther, Dr Strange, Star Lord, Hawkeye, Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider all champed and I have Dare Devil Champable just haven't champed him yet.  I also have OML at 5/2/5 and lvl 430

    In Pvp I usually use Panther and Thanos against Gritty teams and Ghost Rider/Thanos for most other teams. Pve Thanos/panther/dr strange is usually my go to team.

    Well, if you really don't find the current 3 chars exiting, you can always wait for a new char store, maybe to hope for Doom or any other char like Kitty or Okoye to be in that store.

    But remember, more 4 covers means a LOT more CPs, and LTs, feeder covers for 5s, and stronger level for you 4s, don't underestimate those (specially now that Devs are forcing 5 rosters to use 4s to deal with broken 4s like Bishop or WorthyCap)


    wymtime said:
    Vhailorx said:
    wymtime said:
    @IceIX I would love to hear about your experience play testing carnage.  Most of the comments from this thread are down on carnage.  When you play tested him how did you feel he worked well in he 5* tier.

    also in general are the devs going to go back to some older 5* that are under performing and look to buff some of their stats.  I say this because from a 1st impression of Carnage if if each of his powers were just a little stronger he would be a really solid to good 5*. I personally like his mechanics and concepts and feel with a slight buff he would find more use in the game.

    any additional insight would be greatly appreciated.
    I don't want to speak for anyone, and i would like any available insight too, but i think we have to recognize that this request puts IceIX in a difficult position. 

    Carnage's value on mpq rosters has a fairly direct link to Demi/d3's financial bottom line.  So offering any personal opinion whatsoever is subject to at least an appearance of conflict.  (If ice save Carnage is great, can we trust that as anything but marketing hype?  And if ice thinks Carnage is wasp-level bad, doesn't saying as much publicly put him in an uncomfortable position, especially before the character is even released?  Trash talking your own product before release is not generally the best business strategy).
    I don’t think “he’s awesome!” or “he’s trash!” is what people are looking for. Whether a true opinion or not, it doesn’t provide much insight. 

    My thought process is that they did extensive testing on the character and obviously think he’s good. If not, I’m sure they would have buffed him. So if they think he’s good and we all think he’s trash, maybe there are some synergies, ways to play him, or opponents he works well against that we’re not seeing. Yes, we have numbers, but they had the opportunity to play him a bunch, and so by virtue of that have a much different experience of the character. I’m not looking for “good” or “bad” feedback. Just honest. What were you going for and do you feel you hit the mark. 
    @Vhailorx I think what Daredevil articulated is more of what I was looking for.  I agree with you it might put ice in a tight spot, but I also think when a new character comes out and the initial impression of the character is poor an explanation from a developer on at they were looking to accomplish and how they feel they accomplished it with synergy examples can be good.  Even if they came back and said we tried X and it was super OP so we went with Y and gave an explanation would be good communication fro the Dev’s.
    My problem with this is when we have seen articles of Devs talking about new chars descriptions and the interactions with other chars they have always been pretty far off, like no one was using the chars as they were describing in those articles. Like, mixing up teams with 3s, 4s and 5s that were super far off the meta and unusable in "real world" gameplay.

    Like most of the times it looked like they were talking about a different game and that we players knew their game better than them (I don't think this is actually true, I just say this looked true if we just looked at those articles)
  • GreenroomGreenroom Posts: 41 Just Dropped In
    bluewolf said:
    RE:  Absolute Carnage's appearance.  Has anyone been reading the comic enough to comment on the fact that he looks like he has no abdominal organs?  Is it just Cletus Kasady's torso in there since he was once torn apart by Sentry?  Just wondering.  I read that he has been resurrected (maybe this is the second time) just before the storyline began.
    I read an interview where it was simply the artist's design choice to make him appear even less human.  In Carnage USA he has an artificial lower half i assume as a result of the Sentry thing. Ive missed much of the last 10 years of comics but maybe this means Cletus' legs and junk are still floating around in space somewhere.
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,603 Chairperson of the Boards
    Greenroom said:
    bluewolf said:
    RE:  Absolute Carnage's appearance.  Has anyone been reading the comic enough to comment on the fact that he looks like he has no abdominal organs?  Is it just Cletus Kasady's torso in there since he was once torn apart by Sentry?  Just wondering.  I read that he has been resurrected (maybe this is the second time) just before the storyline began.
    I read an interview where it was simply the artist's design choice to make him appear even less human.  In Carnage USA he has an artificial lower half i assume as a result of the Sentry thing. Ive missed much of the last 10 years of comics but maybe this means Cletus' legs and junk are still floating around in space somewhere.
    Yeah, I was in my local comic shop and they said the same thing about Absolute Carnage. (Now even Creepier!)  If it were the 90's would he be EXTREME CARNAGE!!! ?

    Maybe having no intestines means less time in the bathroom and more time to kill people and take over the world. Also means he's not an MPQ player......
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,182 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanos said:
    I was gonna make some Carnage videos but I'm too depressed by how bad he is. A shame cause his artwork is awesome.


     I think this is the best Carnage video I can make.



    That was harsh funny but harsh. did you at least try him first?
  • Daredevil217Daredevil217 Posts: 2,485 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanos said:
    I was gonna make some Carnage videos but I'm too depressed by how bad he is. A shame cause his artwork is awesome.


     I think this is the best Carnage video I can make.



    Hahahaha!

    If you’re taking requests, half heath Daredevil and Doom?
  • ThanosThanos Posts: 588 Critical Contributor
    wymtime said:
    Thanos said:
    I was gonna make some Carnage videos but I'm too depressed by how bad he is. A shame cause his artwork is awesome.

     I think this is the best Carnage video I can make.

    That was harsh funny but harsh. did you at least try him first?
    Of course, I didn't go to the trouble of opening a million 40pks just to delete him without using him first.
    Thanos said:
    I was gonna make some Carnage videos but I'm too depressed by how bad he is. A shame cause his artwork is awesome.

     I think this is the best Carnage video I can make.

    Hahahaha!

    If you’re taking requests, half heath Daredevil and Doom?
    I tried him with a bunch of teams. Problem is he's slow and weak. It's really hard keeping four or more enemy special tiles to keep his black firing. Even with and against Gritty he's not good and the games took much longer with him than without. I'm open to team suggestions though.
  • blankcanvasblankcanvas Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
    Thanos said:
    I was gonna make some Carnage videos but I'm too depressed by how bad he is. A shame cause his artwork is awesome.


     I think this is the best Carnage video I can make.



    What happens when you reach 9,999,999hp? Is it capped?
  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
    Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing him Against 4* Carnage
    @Thanos
  • Chrynos1989Chrynos1989 Posts: 112 Tile Toppler
    Thanos said:
    I was gonna make some Carnage videos but I'm too depressed by how bad he is. A shame cause his artwork is awesome.


     I think this is the best Carnage video I can make.



    tinykitty did I just watch?! XD 
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 3,589 Chairperson of the Boards
    You know, I'm actually quite curious to see him run with Banner now. Maybe throw Fisk in there for the Blue outlet and the ability to slide friendly specials to the enemy?
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