***** Carnage (Prophet of Knull) *****

jredd

jp1 said:

It’s a small nitpick, but this Carnage doesn’t look very menacing either (perhaps because he isn’t). The artwork is nice and everything, no painted block of wood that is Cable, but he looks kind of feeble and cartoonish. 

I’m actually relieved to have a 5* release that I’m perfectly fine having just one cover on though, gives me some breathing room.

looks like a 10year old kid (that's pretty good at drawing) designed him. he does look rather foolish. worst visually designed character since creepy ice boy?

wymtime

This is my theory on carnage and how he got play tested.  When first designed he game 2 friendly attack tiles and 2 friendly strike tiles.  If you look at how weak these friendly tiles are it would make sense they would total around 500 damage for 2 attack tiles and 700is damage for 2 strike tiles.  It would also be strong double dipping each turn.  When play tested this became OP with Kitty because you would get so many special tiles out so quickly and with Kitty buffing them when you double dipped it would be devastating. 

So play testing gets back to the team saying spamming so many special tiles is broken because Kitty .  So the devs nerf him to only spitting out one special tile at a time instead of 2.  The problem is they didn’t buff his tiles to do the same damage as if they were 2 special tiles.  Now we just get 1 weak attack tile and 1 fairly weak strike tile and the consensus is he is bad.

now if the devs actively rebalanced their game on a regular basis let’s say quarterly this would not be a big deal they could let him release realize he is too under powered and just buff his tiles.  The problem is they don’t regularly rebalance their game and just let characters release then die in the game.

DAZ0273

What's up with the animation where it looks like he is riding an invisible tricycle slowly towards the screen?

RickOShay

It's been stated dozens of times: The Dev's need a small panel of selected advisers from the player base to give input on character design from a high level of play. 
They can be sworn to secrecy, and not given certain identifying details if that is a concern. 

For character designs, the Dev's should look a the Jessica Jones model - as that should be the minimum design quality goal for all new characters.

ThaRoadWarrior

With a power that costs 6AP and sips team health a little, maybe he's supposed to be the OML Buddy? If you put Carnage/OML/Kitty on a team, is it interesting?

RickOShay

ThaRoadWarrior said:

With a power that costs 6AP and sips team health a little, maybe he's supposed to be the OML Buddy? If you put Carnage/OML/Kitty on a team, is it interesting?

I was thinking about that group as well. The drawback I see is what ability do you fire first to get OML strike tiles on the board? KItty Yellow? That's not bad of course but then you will probably never transform Logan at all since it would take so much yellow again. Similar drawback to playing OML black first off.
You definitely won't be playing Kitty red to get things started since you will prefer Carnage's red. I usually do play hers first when she's paired with OML otherwise.
So, Carnage green first? Maybe. Hopefully that destroys an enemy attack tile so that you get one of your own to go along with the OML strikes. It all sounds like you are stuck waiting on everything until you get enough green.
Maybe bring along a 6 or 7 AP teamup to start things off easily. Yondu black can be great with Kitty teams. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Do you even need OML to do anything besides be there vomiting strikes? I think you just fire off whatever is cheapest, get Logan to start hemorrhaging daggers passively, and let Kitty get to work on whatever's there while Carnage does all that match damage.

For that matter, may as well replace carnage with Rescue and get the triple-tap red for the same value?

Kolence

I wonder if something like that is possible with current way the powers work... But what if his green just had an added part for boosting the strength of the newly added attack tiles based on the strength of the destroyed one? Like a percentage of it. That way, the more tiles his side destroys, the stronger overall they get. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Rescue/Carnage/OML might even be a decent group, with Carnage at 5/3/5. Don't use his red at all, just Rescue. If you can get some defend tiles out, it should do that passive team heal that may just compensate for anything Carnage is doing team-damage wise. That's a pretty special-spam heavy team, so you could probably keep the board flooded pretty comfortably?

Warbringa

So if his powers were modified to the following, would 5* Carnage be moderate or good?

1.) His green power board shake also generates AP from destroyed tiles.
2.) His red power would have an AP threshold (like 4*) where there is no team damage or steal.
3.) He immediately places 4 enemy strike tiles at the start of the battle (ala Grocket) - (this of course would be a big weakness against Gritty teams)

My question is if all 3 powers are changed not just one particular power btw.

JDFiend

Warbringa said:

So if his powers were modified to the following, would 5* Carnage be moderate or good?

1.) His green power board shake also generates AP from destroyed tiles.
2.) His red power would have an AP threshold (like 4*) where there is no team damage or steal.
3.) He immediately places 4 enemy strike tiles at the start of the battle (ala Grocket) - (this of course would be a big weakness against Gritty teams)

My question is if all 3 powers are changed not just one particular power btw.

I like that he steals health. It fits with him being a meat shield. That's what he is -  a tank that self heals. Run him with a cheap team healer and your going to have a team that stands up to a lot of damage. 

I think removing the steal will lower his value. Not increase it. 

Daredevil217

Warbringa said:

So if his powers were modified to the following, would 5* Carnage be moderate or good?

1.) His green power board shake also generates AP from destroyed tiles.
2.) His red power would have an AP threshold (like 4*) where there is no team damage or steal.
3.) He immediately places 4 enemy strike tiles at the start of the battle (ala Grocket) - (this of course would be a big weakness against Gritty teams)

My question is if all 3 powers are changed not just one particular power btw.

Not going to lie, these kinds of posts just anger me.  So many good ideas have been floated (including yours), but nothing will change.  And seeing what they COULD have done, and what we have (and will always have) because of their refusal to buff people who are trash out of the gate bothers me.

ThaRoadWarrior

Juxtaposition for Contrast:

5* Carnage:

Red Eyed Monsters - 9  AP
Carnage spreads his symbiote sickness to all who approach, turning them into mindless agents of chaos. Carnage destroys 4 random tiles. Destroyed tiles do not generate AP.
(PASSIVE) Whenever you match or destroy a Strike, Attack, or Protect tile, create 1 strength 31 friendly Attack tile. (Max 126)

• Level 2: Create strength 34 friendly Attack tiles. (Max 139)
  
• Level 3: Destroy 5 tiles and create strength 41 friendly Attack tiles. (Max 168)
• Level 4: Create strength 45 friendly Attack tiles. (Max 182)
• Level 5: Destroy 7 tiles and create strength 55 friendly Attack tiles. (Max 224)

3* Storm (mohawk)
Lightning Strike - Green 10  AP
Storm calls a blinding bolt of electricity from the heavens, shattering 8 tiles, doing damage and earning AP for each.
Level Upgrades

• Level 2: Shatters 9 tiles.
• Level 3: Shatters 10 tiles.
• Level 4: Shatters 12 tiles.
• Level 5: Shatters 14 tiles.

Polares

Daredevil217 said:

Warbringa said:

So if his powers were modified to the following, would 5* Carnage be moderate or good?

1.) His green power board shake also generates AP from destroyed tiles.
2.) His red power would have an AP threshold (like 4*) where there is no team damage or steal.
3.) He immediately places 4 enemy strike tiles at the start of the battle (ala Grocket) - (this of course would be a big weakness against Gritty teams)

My question is if all 3 powers are changed not just one particular power btw.

Not going to lie, these kinds of posts just anger me.  So many good ideas have been floated (including yours), but nothing will change.  And seeing what they COULD have done, and what we have (and will always have) because of their refusal to buff people who are trash out of the gate bothers me.

Yeah one thing that has really annoyed me about this game since forever, and that has pushed me to NEVER EVER spend a cent in it, is that Devs don't listen to us. There are so many chars that was super obvious pre release that they were pretty bad, but Devs ignored our complains and these chars were not buffed and just released to be forgotten immediately and just make things more diluted.

Just small buffs would make this chars at least usable.If I want ProfX I will get this guy (I dont have the pulls today), as I got Carol because I wanted to get Hela and Doom, and it really annoys me to get these useless chars with them.

Sm0keyJ0e

I almost feel like they throw out a complete dud on purpose to get people to cash in their hoards, which is exactly what's happening.

Then the vicious cycle starts again...

Daredevil217

Sm0keyJ0e said:

I almost feel like they throw out a complete dud on purpose to get people to cash in their hoards, which is exactly what's happening.

Then the vicious cycle starts again...

Meaning cash in before the dud enters tokens? Otherwise that doesn’t make sense as duds encourage hoarding.

I will say from a sales perspective it makes sense.  In any collectible, whether trading cards or table top gaming, there is usually variation within the same tier. That way, the good pulls seem "extra good" by comparison when you get them.  So getting that purple token in Classics feels good, but it's even better when it comes back an Okoye.  The problem is, this is also a competitive game and not JUST a collectible game, so getting that shiny purple only for it to come back a Wasp (or in this case Carbage) feels pretty awful.

ursopro

I tried him with Okoye/Kraven and it wasn't thaaaaaaaaat bad, the only issue is if the board is devoid of TU or yellow then is preeeeeeeeeetty bad.

Sm0keyJ0e

Daredevil217 said:

Sm0keyJ0e said:

I almost feel like they throw out a complete dud on purpose to get people to cash in their hoards, which is exactly what's happening.

Then the vicious cycle starts again...

Meaning cash in before the dud enters tokens? Otherwise that doesn’t make sense as duds encourage hoarding.

Yes. Many people (including myself) who are tired of waiting are pulling now. Otherwise we're waiting months for this poor excuse of a 5* to leave. The current 3 are decent to good.

I think they think the pressure will be there to spend again to chase whatever may follow.

RickOShay

So for the 4* players out there, I think there's some interesting* teams to think about with Carnage: 

4* Black Panther & Elektra 
Panther's yellow should be quite good here. His repeater creates 3 fortified special tiles ever other turn. Matching a friendly fortified tile should qualify a free attack from Carnage.
Elektra's purple will steal the enemy attack tiles that Carnage makes, and she will buff them into Strike tiles - while also placing weak enemy strike tiles. This is great since you should still get the free match from Carnage easily (and then get his strike tile for free).
Playing her black will help you shadowstep the continual attack tile damage coming your way when you match more purple (her only tank color). 
Panthers blue will help also by creating fortified protect tiles, with bonus damage when you match them (maybe Carnage will on his free turn).
[sub in Medusa for Elektra for tons of AP from enemy special tile matches and Health from friendly special matches].

4* Medusa and Prowler
As others have stated this should be a bit nuts. Matching away enemy specials helps you earn Green for Carnage, Blue for Prowler, and Purple for Medusa.
Continual matches of friendly specials should keep your team healthy from Medusa's burst heal, and try to prioritize black to play Prowler's 'I'll get my coat". This creates strike tiles for each team, thus helping keep up the total of enemy specials at 4+.
When you have more total special tiles than the enemy, and at least 4 yourself, play Prowlers blue for team damage and target stun, followed by Carnage red for additional target and team damage. (You may want to switch targets here). 

Other ideas (because, there's just not a lot of perfect teammates unfortunately). 
Magik for her purple repeater adding tons of red to the board for Carnage, and spamming protect tiles. 
Add Nico for her yellow healing and more protects, potential to buff all specials, blue for stun etc. 

Sabretooth, cheap black for near-zero enemy strike tiles, board chaos when matched and potential to destroy more specials to proc Carnage attack tiles. His red is so good though, whose to use? 
Again, Nico is a good fit here color wise, but maybe Ronin Hawkeye for more free attacks on each red match, purple for damage and stun, and pretty much a better green than his 5* partner... 

Iron Fist and Ant-Man, stretching here but lots of attacks from AM's purple, free Carnage strikes help to accelerate Fist's blue - green - black combo for big damage. AM's yellow for cheap chip damage and strikes that ensure Carnage red has 4+ specials for full effect.

Kraven and Brock Venom as others have stated. Continual / weak enemy special tiles. Probably play Venom's green. 

*Interesting does not always mean... Good.

Thanos

I've been trying to find a decent 5* team and i think this is about as good as it gets. Unfortunately it took many, many tries before a match went this smoothly.

https://youtu.be/kJ3lOn7Evm8