***** Carnage (Prophet of Knull) *****

RickOShay

That was decent, thanks. 
I'd like to point out that you played - in that smooth match - a Carnage ability just 1 time lol.
Wonder if that tells us anything? 

himatako

To be honest he looks like another failed attempt to counter a Grocket team. Another five stars that I'll probably get a few cover from Latest Legendary token so I at least have him for those nodes that require him in PvE. 

RickOShay

So, will Gritty teams have any reservations about taking on a Carbage team? Maybe more than we think.

Your Gritty versus a Carnage team means they WILL be getting a free match every single turn for many rounds. That free strike tile, potential for attack tiles, and the extra match damage every turn will guarantee you'll have some health pack usage.
You're certain to take more damage early on than when facing Thorkoye for example. 
Gritty is quite known for costing a lot of health packs in PvP already. 

I realize that Gritty will make good use of the attack tiles that enemy Carnage gives you, but how often do you actually want to play against Carnage knowing it will cost you up to a Health Pack or more per battle? 

If you have to match green or blue, Grocket will remain out front to take around 2k from the next free Carnage match, then another ~2k from the player/AI match, then any strike + attack tile damage. 
After 2 turns like this Grocket is down 8k - 9k health alone.

Oh, and how often do you expect enemy Carnage to be matching red on his free turn? Good luck avoiding that cheap shot for very long..
Also, with two enemy matches per Turn, how many of your Strike tiles do you think you can keep safe? 

Gritty will have some speed efficiency vs a Carnage team, but it will be nearly impossible to come out unscathed (like Thorkoye could). 

bluewolf

I have to say, it’s an interesting point that Carnage with.....someone else, I’m not sure who yet.....could be effective enough vs Gritty to cause some health pack use on defense.

I don’t think it really makes a strong case for Carnage in any way since you still need to win to leave him out.

I do wonder, though, if he’s one of the first 5* characters who is better on defense than offense?  Where he’s annoying enough where you might skip him but remains slow and unimpressive when trying to use him to win?  (Sounds a bit like Bishop in that regard though.)

Dancing_Lass

More time for hoppers to hop if the snipers use carnage.

bluewolf

Dancing_Lass said:

More time for hoppers to hop if the snipers use carnage.

I certainly don't think any sniper will use him and I don't think he will be any part of a rock-paper-scissors meta grouping, but some players might find him useful as a scarecrow.

Maybe he could break up some of the PVPs where so many people like using Grittys, though.

DAZ0273

I do sometimes wonder whether talk of healthpack use might be something of a red flag. If Carnage slows matches down I could see him being a problem/scarecrow, especially at certain times of PVP but I would imagine a large majority of 5* players have massive stocks of healthpacks (or the ability to obtain more from Taco's hoarded) so is it really that much of a consideration? Interested to hear.

Polares

DAZ0273 said:

I do sometimes wonder whether talk of healthpack use might be something of a red flag. If Carnage slows matches down I could see him being a problem/scarecrow, especially at certain times of PVP but I would imagine a large majority of 5* players have massive stocks of healthpacks (or the ability to obtain more from Taco's hoarded) so is it really that much of a consideration? Interested to hear.

It is being a while I have been a decent PvP player, but in my opinion, you are right, Health Pack consideration pays almost no role in this. Time is the only thing that really matters, specially when you are hopping. So the extra match-3 and the animations will play a way more important role than health packs.

Him and Banner can be the biggest scarecrow for the extra tile matches and the animations, etc. and if Banner transforms is 20k more life you need to deal with, so they will certainly be annoying. Even though they are pretty bad so it will be fun to win a match with them :P 

ThaRoadWarrior

Animations can be turned off, and likely are turned off for the people you're worried about getting hit by. So animation length isn't really the scarecrow it used to be outside of the tile changes taking some length of time. 

I never have any hoards of anything, but I also generally have enough hp around to get some emergency health for a final push occasionally if I need it. For Carnage it's probably just the additional turn, and banner also. But you can solve that Banner problem with just about anyone, but Hela/Kitty especially punish him (Hela chomps the team for saving up Green and Kitty just eats his tiles)

bluewolf

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Animations can be turned off, and likely are turned off for the people you're worried about getting hit by. So animation length isn't really the scarecrow it used to be outside of the tile changes taking some length of time. 

I never have any hoards of anything, but I also generally have enough hp around to get some emergency health for a final push occasionally if I need it. For Carnage it's probably just the additional turn, and banner also. But you can solve that Banner problem with just about anyone, but Hela/Kitty especially punish him (Hela chomps the team for saving up Green and Kitty just eats his tiles)

It may not be clear, but Attack tile animations is what people have in mind.  You can't turn them off.  Carnage makes them pretty much a given issue to deal with since he makes the tiles passively (other 5's require at least some AP first).

Competitive players aren't firing powers that make Attacks in PVP (especially in hops or when nearing the end of their climb) and some might avoid Carnage in a hop to make sure they aren't stuck in a longer match.  It depends who they are running, etc. but it creates a small use case for him, but I think anyone using Thorkoye will hit Carnage without much concern.

Vhailorx

himatako said:

To be honest he looks like another failed attempt to counter a Grocket team. Another five stars that I'll probably get a few cover from Latest Legendary token so I at least have him for those nodes that require him in PvE. 

Ugh, this is like all of the Gambit counters they tried that relied on special tiles.  When a character effectively punishes the opposing team for doing X, you can't really use X as a hard-counter mechanic.  Gambit overwrote all specials, so he was immune (when well-played) to special tile-based powers that could otherwise slow him down.

Kitty punishes teams that reularly produce small numbers of special tiles.  Carnage does exactly that! He is an awful counter to her.

Yet again this looks to be a "file-under-demi-apparently-still-doesn't-understand-their-own-elder-game."

tiomono

Vhailorx said:

himatako said:

To be honest he looks like another failed attempt to counter a Grocket team. Another five stars that I'll probably get a few cover from Latest Legendary token so I at least have him for those nodes that require him in PvE. 

Ugh, this is like all of the Gambit counters they tried that relied on special tiles.  When a character effectively punishes the opposing team for doing X, you can't really use X as a hard-counter mechanic.  Gambit overwrote all specials, so he was immune (when well-played) to special tile-based powers that could otherwise slow him down.

Kitty punishes teams that reularly produce small numbers of special tiles.  Carnage does exactly that! He is an awful counter to her.

Yet again this looks to be a "file-under-demi-apparently-still-doesn't-understand-their-own-elder-game."

Did they say this was an attempt to counter kitty? Do they even feel kitty is a problem in the 5* tier?

In my experience the only place kitty is a "problem" is in the 4* tier. I'm in 5* land and have no issues with kitty. She can be dangerous with some partners, but on her own or without someone that produces specials quickly she is totally manageable.

Vhailorx

tiomono said:

Vhailorx said:

himatako said:

To be honest he looks like another failed attempt to counter a Grocket team. Another five stars that I'll probably get a few cover from Latest Legendary token so I at least have him for those nodes that require him in PvE. 

Ugh, this is like all of the Gambit counters they tried that relied on special tiles.  When a character effectively punishes the opposing team for doing X, you can't really use X as a hard-counter mechanic.  Gambit overwrote all specials, so he was immune (when well-played) to special tile-based powers that could otherwise slow him down.

Kitty punishes teams that reularly produce small numbers of special tiles.  Carnage does exactly that! He is an awful counter to her.

Yet again this looks to be a "file-under-demi-apparently-still-doesn't-understand-their-own-elder-game."

Did they say this was an attempt to counter kitty? Do they even feel kitty is a problem in the 5* tier?

In my experience the only place kitty is a "problem" is in the 4* tier. I'm in 5* land and have no issues with kitty. She can be dangerous with some partners, but on her own or without someone that produces specials quickly she is totally manageable.

They didn't say anything about their specific design goals.  They rarely do.

But kitty + bishop + grocket continues to be an issue in 4* and 5*  lands (for team diversity if no other reason).  Kitty is a problem for pure 4* players (because she has too much health + match/strike damage for them to compete), and bishop is a problem for 5* players (because 5* match damage is enough to proc him).

So to the extent that carnage is designed to counter gritty + bishop by proc'ing off enemy specials, he will almost certainly be a failure (and I think that would hold true even if his numbers were a bit better).

leoperez90

Time to move on to the next 5* and hope that it's better then carnage. 

Let's see what's the next 4* that should of been a 5* character hahaha 

Daredevil217

Spider-Man 2099. Going by release pattern he should have been the 5 and we’d have a second Carnage in the 4* tier. Maybe that’s what happened?

Designer 1: Hey I have this awesome idea for a a 4*.  Carnage! He can work well with Prowler, Medusa, Venom and a slew of other 4s!

Designer 2: Umm... you realize we already have a Carnage in the 4* tier right??

Designer 1: Really!?  Geez there’s 90 characters in that tier alone, you expect me to remember them ALL? 

Designer 2: Yeah kinda. 

Designer 1: *reads old Carnage’s power descriptions* I thought my ideas sounded familiar. I guess subconsciously I made a weaker version of a character we already had. Oh well, why not just pump up the match damage and call it a 5*!? We can make 2099 a 4 to go with all the other web tile makers. 

Designer 2: But 2099 was supposed to revive Parker in the 5* tier and he pairs really well with Okoye. Carnage doesn’t really have synergy with any-

Designer 1: Quiet you!! Write-up this blog, and make him sound AWESOME!

Khanwulf

BuzzedLightbeer said:

I documented my 300+ pull results in a separate thread, but after receiving 46 of these latest legends, I had a fully covered Storm, a level 454 Iceman...and a 7/0/9 Prof X.  That purple is awfully elusive...

Sadly I didn't do as well, but can agree that darn purple ProfX is super elusive!

Ugh.

--Khanwulf

leoperez90

Daredevil217 said:

Spider-Man 2099. Going by release pattern he should have been the 5 and we’d have a second Carnage in the 4* tier. Maybe that’s what happened?

Designer 1: Hey I have this awesome idea for a a 4*.  Carnage! He can work well with Prowler, Medusa, Venom and a slew of other 4s!

Designer 2: Umm... you realize we already have a Carnage in the 4* tier right??

Designer 1: Really!?  Geez there’s 90 characters in that tier alone, you expect me to remember them ALL? 

Designer 2: Yeah kinda. 

Designer 1: *reads old Carnage’s power descriptions* I thought my ideas sounded familiar. I guess subconsciously I made a weaker version of a character we already had. Oh well, why not just pump up the match damage and call it a 5*!? We can make 2099 a 4 to go with all the other web tile makers. 

Designer 2: But 2099 was supposed to revive Parker in the 5* tier and he pairs really well with Okoye. Carnage doesn’t really have synergy with any-

Designer 1: Quiet you!! Write-up this blog, and make him sound AWESOME!

LOVED IT haha 

BuzzedLightbeer

Khanwulf said:

BuzzedLightbeer said:

I documented my 300+ pull results in a separate thread, but after receiving 46 of these latest legends, I had a fully covered Storm, a level 454 Iceman...and a 7/0/9 Prof X.  That purple is awfully elusive...

Sadly I didn't do as well, but can agree that darn purple ProfX is super elusive!

Ugh.

--Khanwulf

Sorry to hear it hid from you as well!  

Vins2

Had a chance to fight a Carbage in slice 1 I don't think champed bc he wasn't past level 500.  But he's gonna be a deterrent if only bc his passive makes matches go so much slower.  Not Worthy/HE slow but it'll still make you wish instead for the fast 3turn death of a bad gritty fight.

bluewolf

Vins2 said:

Had a chance to fight a Carbage in slice 1 I don't think champed bc he wasn't past level 500.  But he's gonna be a deterrent if only bc his passive makes matches go so much slower.  Not Worthy/HE slow but it'll still make you wish instead for the fast 3turn death of a bad gritty fight.

I agree he’s a troll character but obviously not much good to use in hops. 

One difference between Carnage and other troll teams (hairtrigger 4’s or Gritty) is you will still almost always win vs Carnage, at least once he’s not godboosted. At least, I think so. 

So he basically seems like a lesser annoyance that won’t have a huge impact on the game. Maybe you would climb with him and take less hits but all your matches will be slow and you’ll be taking more time to play this game.