***** Carnage (Prophet of Knull) *****

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Comments

  • Sm0keyJ0eSm0keyJ0e Posts: 701 Critical Contributor
    I almost feel like they throw out a complete dud on purpose to get people to cash in their hoards, which is exactly what's happening.

    Then the vicious cycle starts again...
  • Daredevil217Daredevil217 Posts: 2,485 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    I almost feel like they throw out a complete dud on purpose to get people to cash in their hoards, which is exactly what's happening.

    Then the vicious cycle starts again...
    Meaning cash in before the dud enters tokens? Otherwise that doesn’t make sense as duds encourage hoarding.

    I will say from a sales perspective it makes sense.  In any collectible, whether trading cards or table top gaming, there is usually variation within the same tier. That way, the good pulls seem "extra good" by comparison when you get them.  So getting that purple token in Classics feels good, but it's even better when it comes back an Okoye.  The problem is, this is also a competitive game and not JUST a collectible game, so getting that shiny purple only for it to come back a Wasp (or in this case Carbage) feels pretty awful.
  • ursoproursopro Posts: 280 Mover and Shaker
    I tried him with Okoye/Kraven and it wasn't thaaaaaaaaat bad, the only issue is if the board is devoid of TU or yellow then is preeeeeeeeeetty bad.
  • Sm0keyJ0eSm0keyJ0e Posts: 701 Critical Contributor
    Sm0keyJ0e said:
    I almost feel like they throw out a complete dud on purpose to get people to cash in their hoards, which is exactly what's happening.

    Then the vicious cycle starts again...
    Meaning cash in before the dud enters tokens? Otherwise that doesn’t make sense as duds encourage hoarding.
    Yes. Many people (including myself) who are tired of waiting are pulling now. Otherwise we're waiting months for this poor excuse of a 5* to leave. The current 3 are decent to good.

    I think they think the pressure will be there to spend again to chase whatever may follow.
  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2019
    So for the 4* players out there, I think there's some interesting* teams to think about with Carnage: 

    4* Black Panther & Elektra 
    Panther's yellow should be quite good here. His repeater creates 3 fortified special tiles ever other turn. Matching a friendly fortified tile should qualify a free attack from Carnage.
    Elektra's purple will steal the enemy attack tiles that Carnage makes, and she will buff them into Strike tiles - while also placing weak enemy strike tiles. This is great since you should still get the free match from Carnage easily (and then get his strike tile for free).
    Playing her black will help you shadowstep the continual attack tile damage coming your way when you match more purple (her only tank color). 
    Panthers blue will help also by creating fortified protect tiles, with bonus damage when you match them (maybe Carnage will on his free turn).
    [sub in Medusa for Elektra for tons of AP from enemy special tile matches and Health from friendly special matches].

    4* Medusa and Prowler
    As others have stated this should be a bit nuts. Matching away enemy specials helps you earn Green for Carnage, Blue for Prowler, and Purple for Medusa.
    Continual matches of friendly specials should keep your team healthy from Medusa's burst heal, and try to prioritize black to play Prowler's 'I'll get my coat". This creates strike tiles for each team, thus helping keep up the total of enemy specials at 4+.
    When you have more total special tiles than the enemy, and at least 4 yourself, play Prowlers blue for team damage and target stun, followed by Carnage red for additional target and team damage. (You may want to switch targets here). 

    Other ideas (because, there's just not a lot of perfect teammates unfortunately). 
    Magik for her purple repeater adding tons of red to the board for Carnage, and spamming protect tiles. 
    Add Nico for her yellow healing and more protects, potential to buff all specials, blue for stun etc. 

    Sabretooth, cheap black for near-zero enemy strike tiles, board chaos when matched and potential to destroy more specials to proc Carnage attack tiles. His red is so good though, whose to use? 
    Again, Nico is a good fit here color wise, but maybe Ronin Hawkeye for more free attacks on each red match, purple for damage and stun, and pretty much a better green than his 5* partner... 

    Iron Fist and Ant-Man, stretching here but lots of attacks from AM's purple, free Carnage strikes help to accelerate Fist's blue - green - black combo for big damage. AM's yellow for cheap chip damage and strikes that ensure Carnage red has 4+ specials for full effect.

    Kraven and Brock Venom as others have stated. Continual / weak enemy special tiles. Probably play Venom's green. 

    *Interesting does not always mean... Good.
  • ThanosThanos Posts: 588 Critical Contributor
    I've been trying to find a decent 5* team and i think this is about as good as it gets. Unfortunately it took many, many tries before a match went this smoothly.



  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
    That was decent, thanks. 
    I'd like to point out that you played - in that smooth match - a Carnage ability just 1 time lol.
    Wonder if that tells us anything? 
  • himatakohimatako Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    To be honest he looks like another failed attempt to counter a Grocket team. Another five stars that I'll probably get a few cover from Latest Legendary token so I at least have him for those nodes that require him in PvE. 
  • RickOShayRickOShay Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
    edited October 2019
    So, will Gritty teams have any reservations about taking on a Carbage team? Maybe more than we think.

    Your Gritty versus a Carnage team means they WILL be getting a free match every single turn for many rounds. That free strike tile, potential for attack tiles, and the extra match damage every turn will guarantee you'll have some health pack usage.
    You're certain to take more damage early on than when facing Thorkoye for example. 
    Gritty is quite known for costing a lot of health packs in PvP already. 

    I realize that Gritty will make good use of the attack tiles that enemy Carnage gives you, but how often do you actually want to play against Carnage knowing it will cost you up to a Health Pack or more per battle? 

    If you have to match green or blue, Grocket will remain out front to take around 2k from the next free Carnage match, then another ~2k from the player/AI match, then any strike + attack tile damage. 
    After 2 turns like this Grocket is down 8k - 9k health alone.

    Oh, and how often do you expect enemy Carnage to be matching red on his free turn? Good luck avoiding that cheap shot for very long..
    Also, with two enemy matches per Turn, how many of your Strike tiles do you think you can keep safe? 

    Gritty will have some speed efficiency vs a Carnage team, but it will be nearly impossible to come out unscathed (like Thorkoye could). 
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,603 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have to say, it’s an interesting point that Carnage with.....someone else, I’m not sure who yet.....could be effective enough vs Gritty to cause some health pack use on defense.

    I don’t think it really makes a strong case for Carnage in any way since you still need to win to leave him out.

    I do wonder, though, if he’s one of the first 5* characters who is better on defense than offense?  Where he’s annoying enough where you might skip him but remains slow and unimpressive when trying to use him to win?  (Sounds a bit like Bishop in that regard though.)
  • Dancing_LassDancing_Lass Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    More time for hoppers to hop if the snipers use carnage.
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,603 Chairperson of the Boards
    More time for hoppers to hop if the snipers use carnage.
    I certainly don't think any sniper will use him and I don't think he will be any part of a rock-paper-scissors meta grouping, but some players might find him useful as a scarecrow.

    Maybe he could break up some of the PVPs where so many people like using Grittys, though.
  • DAZ0273DAZ0273 Posts: 3,566 Chairperson of the Boards
    I do sometimes wonder whether talk of healthpack use might be something of a red flag. If Carnage slows matches down I could see him being a problem/scarecrow, especially at certain times of PVP but I would imagine a large majority of 5* players have massive stocks of healthpacks (or the ability to obtain more from Taco's hoarded) so is it really that much of a consideration? Interested to hear.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,422 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2019
    DAZ0273 said:
    I do sometimes wonder whether talk of healthpack use might be something of a red flag. If Carnage slows matches down I could see him being a problem/scarecrow, especially at certain times of PVP but I would imagine a large majority of 5* players have massive stocks of healthpacks (or the ability to obtain more from Taco's hoarded) so is it really that much of a consideration? Interested to hear.
    It is being a while I have been a decent PvP player, but in my opinion, you are right, Health Pack consideration pays almost no role in this. Time is the only thing that really matters, specially when you are hopping. So the extra match-3 and the animations will play a way more important role than health packs.

    Him and Banner can be the biggest scarecrow for the extra tile matches and the animations, etc. and if Banner transforms is 20k more life you need to deal with, so they will certainly be annoying. Even though they are pretty bad so it will be fun to win a match with them :P 
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 3,589 Chairperson of the Boards
    Animations can be turned off, and likely are turned off for the people you're worried about getting hit by. So animation length isn't really the scarecrow it used to be outside of the tile changes taking some length of time. 

    I never have any hoards of anything, but I also generally have enough hp around to get some emergency health for a final push occasionally if I need it. For Carnage it's probably just the additional turn, and banner also. But you can solve that Banner problem with just about anyone, but Hela/Kitty especially punish him (Hela chomps the team for saving up Green and Kitty just eats his tiles)
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 3,603 Chairperson of the Boards
    Animations can be turned off, and likely are turned off for the people you're worried about getting hit by. So animation length isn't really the scarecrow it used to be outside of the tile changes taking some length of time. 

    I never have any hoards of anything, but I also generally have enough hp around to get some emergency health for a final push occasionally if I need it. For Carnage it's probably just the additional turn, and banner also. But you can solve that Banner problem with just about anyone, but Hela/Kitty especially punish him (Hela chomps the team for saving up Green and Kitty just eats his tiles)
    It may not be clear, but Attack tile animations is what people have in mind.  You can't turn them off.  Carnage makes them pretty much a given issue to deal with since he makes the tiles passively (other 5's require at least some AP first).

    Competitive players aren't firing powers that make Attacks in PVP (especially in hops or when nearing the end of their climb) and some might avoid Carnage in a hop to make sure they aren't stuck in a longer match.  It depends who they are running, etc. but it creates a small use case for him, but I think anyone using Thorkoye will hit Carnage without much concern.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,328 Chairperson of the Boards
    himatako said:
    To be honest he looks like another failed attempt to counter a Grocket team. Another five stars that I'll probably get a few cover from Latest Legendary token so I at least have him for those nodes that require him in PvE. 
    Ugh, this is like all of the Gambit counters they tried that relied on special tiles.  When a character effectively punishes the opposing team for doing X, you can't really use X as a hard-counter mechanic.  Gambit overwrote all specials, so he was immune (when well-played) to special tile-based powers that could otherwise slow him down.

    Kitty punishes teams that reularly produce small numbers of special tiles.  Carnage does exactly that! He is an awful counter to her.

    Yet again this looks to be a "file-under-demi-apparently-still-doesn't-understand-their-own-elder-game."
  • tiomonotiomono Posts: 1,476 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    himatako said:
    To be honest he looks like another failed attempt to counter a Grocket team. Another five stars that I'll probably get a few cover from Latest Legendary token so I at least have him for those nodes that require him in PvE. 
    Ugh, this is like all of the Gambit counters they tried that relied on special tiles.  When a character effectively punishes the opposing team for doing X, you can't really use X as a hard-counter mechanic.  Gambit overwrote all specials, so he was immune (when well-played) to special tile-based powers that could otherwise slow him down.

    Kitty punishes teams that reularly produce small numbers of special tiles.  Carnage does exactly that! He is an awful counter to her.

    Yet again this looks to be a "file-under-demi-apparently-still-doesn't-understand-their-own-elder-game."
    Did they say this was an attempt to counter kitty? Do they even feel kitty is a problem in the 5* tier?

    In my experience the only place kitty is a "problem" is in the 4* tier. I'm in 5* land and have no issues with kitty. She can be dangerous with some partners, but on her own or without someone that produces specials quickly she is totally manageable.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 4,328 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    Vhailorx said:
    himatako said:
    To be honest he looks like another failed attempt to counter a Grocket team. Another five stars that I'll probably get a few cover from Latest Legendary token so I at least have him for those nodes that require him in PvE. 
    Ugh, this is like all of the Gambit counters they tried that relied on special tiles.  When a character effectively punishes the opposing team for doing X, you can't really use X as a hard-counter mechanic.  Gambit overwrote all specials, so he was immune (when well-played) to special tile-based powers that could otherwise slow him down.

    Kitty punishes teams that reularly produce small numbers of special tiles.  Carnage does exactly that! He is an awful counter to her.

    Yet again this looks to be a "file-under-demi-apparently-still-doesn't-understand-their-own-elder-game."
    Did they say this was an attempt to counter kitty? Do they even feel kitty is a problem in the 5* tier?

    In my experience the only place kitty is a "problem" is in the 4* tier. I'm in 5* land and have no issues with kitty. She can be dangerous with some partners, but on her own or without someone that produces specials quickly she is totally manageable.
    They didn't say anything about their specific design goals.  They rarely do.

    But kitty + bishop + grocket continues to be an issue in 4* and 5*  lands (for team diversity if no other reason).  Kitty is a problem for pure 4* players (because she has too much health + match/strike damage for them to compete), and bishop is a problem for 5* players (because 5* match damage is enough to proc him).

    So to the extent that carnage is designed to counter gritty + bishop by proc'ing off enemy specials, he will almost certainly be a failure (and I think that would hold true even if his numbers were a bit better).
  • leoperez90leoperez90 Posts: 52 Match Maker
    Time to move on to the next 5* and hope that it's better then carnage. 

    Let's see what's the next 4* that should of been a 5* character hahaha 
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