*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

I think it's pretty apparent that his stun has been purposely changed into a late-match ability. In the same way The Hood's Yellow, Loki's Black, Captain America/Falcon's Defense tiles are used.

You don't actively seek AP tiles out and build towards using them, you just slowly acquire the AP throughout the match. Usually when there is one enemy left (and one with a shred of HP's left), you would have acquired enough to use it.

Err, so the strategy is to take one useless guy along to make the game last twice as many turns so halfway there just happen to appear 15 blue AP.

That's f-ing familiar really..... ah, here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b47TY5VbFHY

Unknown

I think (what they were thinking) is you would be fighting against a Support/fast-attack Tank/slow-attack Tank team ... you would kill off the support first, then kill off the fast-attack tank.

At that point, you may have acquired 10+ blue AP to start launching spidey's webs and locking down that slow-attack tank. Which would be about the time the AI had acquired near enough AP to start launching it's powerful abilities, thus saving you damage and getting a little bonus heal at the end.

But, as I said, if you can just bring three powerhouse, synergizing characters .. you wouldn't ever bother with spidey at all.

It seems the people who gets screwed the most in this nerf are the Patch/Spidey users (and there were many of them).

KillStormFirst

I think it's pretty ridiculous to compare Spidey to Black Widow in terms of healing... are these 1-4 stars for each character meaningless? Does anyone else remember when a 3* character was awesome and better than any 2* or 1*? Hell, better than any 4*! Those were the good old days... I wonder who else will get castrated after Magneto... Dr Doom? It seems that the idea of "buffing" a character is now out of the question unless it's Invisible Woman or some other worthless character.

Unknown

Now that I have taken the time to look at him, I think the build I will be going with now is a 5/3/5 build.

The reason being that he has become a strictly defensive character, and has to be thought of in those terms. How is the AI going to use him now? Obviously, it won't get off as many Web tiles as it used to, so that places more value on those to begin with, so of course his purple needs to be maxed to get the full benefit from Web tiles. His heal on the other hand, while may not benefit as greatly from Web tiles as his shields do, it's base heal alone more than makes up for it, considering that in its previous incarnation, at a base heal of 700, the AI used it even without webbing on the board, so this buff to healing makes it a "dumb" skill worth investing in.

Why only 3 blue if Web tiles have become that much valuable per web? Because now you are no longer paying for a stun, but rather a cheap Web tile with a stun attached to it. Realistically, the AI may never get more than two out on the board during a match now, so that's why the other skills should be maxed. Further, with the change, it actually has gotten better, because it's easier for a single Web tile with great value attached to to be placed in an (almost) unreachable spot for the player to reach, than flooding the board with smaller valued Web tiles. Previously, his ATU relied on a slew of webbing to be on board to be effective, which kinda neutered him in a defensive purpose and made him an annoyance at best to deal with, but they weren't really something worth guarding when you could just create more easily enough. Now the focus isn't on him being a stunner, so the Web tiles create a better value on the other two skills.

The unfortunate/fortunate part about this change is that he is now heavily reliant on being levelled to be an effective character, as it should be.

Phaserhawk

I think people are missing what they are making him. He's going from a team stun to a single focus stun character. You can for the most part keep one member of the opposing team locked down assuming you can make the matches.

Current Stunners:
Captain America 2* and 3*
Daredevil
Iron Man 40
Hawkeye (Modern)
Moonstone
Storm (Classic)
Black Widow (Modern)
Venom

I can honestly say, I would prefer Black Widow's stun on Spider-man over what he has now. However, other than Venom lvl 4 no one has a lower stun than Spiderman. However, I think people are having a hard time adjusting to how Spider-man plays now. He can't lock down a team like he used to and that frustrates players because they were so reliant on it. Spiderman is now officially a defensive character, which is where I feel the game is moving. My thought is 3/5/5 and focusing on defensive tile creation. Pair him with an active purple user, maybe Falcon, who really pumps Spidey early game. First few turns match purple, get def tiles, match yellow to pump them up. Your team is now safe from match damage. We'll see how he shakes out, I have a feeling he wont' be as bad as thought.

Dauthi

TropicYeo wrote:

I'm glad spidey is getting a nerf. I almost get sick to my stomach when someone running a team of spidey, and two one stars manage to beat my max 3 star team. Something doesn't add up here...

Yes, he was overpowered. Everyone was excited he was going to be nerfed including myself. The problem is he is being nerfed into uselessness. Isn't it better to expand the roster of characters you can play with, not reduce it?

I would like to note this is not like Ragnarok either. Ragnarok was balanced fine and he is still a great character due to having some of the lowest costs in the game for decent abilities. Nobody invests in him because he is a 10 cover character and becomes less effective past level 115. For instance right now Ragnarok is buffed and is actually worth while in PVE. Spidey buffs in PVE events will never make him worth playing.

Unknown

As others have pointed out, there are multiple threads on this discussion already, and this one adds nothing new.

Whether he is truly useless or not, only time and usage will tell.

Unknown

I believe they were also changing his cover name to

'Lazy Bagman'

OnesOwnGrief

In case anyone was wondering and it hasn't been stated, Web Healing will only remove 3 web tiles so if you have more than 3, you can keep your stuns going if you have the AP. Managed to have a few games where I've made 6 web tiles with just Spidey locking down Hulk and Thor.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think people are missing what they are making him. He's going from a team stun to a single focus stun character. You can for the most part keep one member of the opposing team locked down assuming you can make the matches.

Current Stunners:
Captain America 2* and 3*
Daredevil
Iron Man 40
Hawkeye (Modern)
Moonstone
Storm (Classic)
Black Widow (Modern)
Venom

I can honestly say, I would prefer Black Widow's stun on Spider-man over what he has now. However, other than Venom lvl 4 no one has a lower stun than Spiderman. However, I think people are having a hard time adjusting to how Spider-man plays now. He can't lock down a team like he used to and that frustrates players because they were so reliant on it. Spiderman is now officially a defensive character, which is where I feel the game is moving. My thought is 3/5/5 and focusing on defensive tile creation. Pair him with an active purple user, maybe Falcon, who really pumps Spidey early game. First few turns match purple, get def tiles, match yellow to pump them up. Your team is now safe from match damage. We'll see how he shakes out, I have a feeling he wont' be as bad as thought.

The issue with your plan is that his web tiles dont pump up the existing defense tiles. You have to make new ones after webs are out. Which means you'll want to replace the tiles that falcon already buffed and start again. Even if you do want to replace your defense tiles after webs are out it can be problematic when you have 2 25 defense tiles at the bottom you cant match to get rid of that isnt allowing you to put new strong ones out. In the mean time your webs get destroyed and even if you do manage to get the old ones cleared out it just makes 25 damage defense tiles again.

Yes falcon can increase them but those protect tiles likely need to be replaced with better ones once you have webs out and again that can be an issue. His base purple protect tiles are trash right now. I'm a little tired of hearing about pairing spiderman and falcon up solves the nerf. Even if it was true you shouldnt have to pair a character with someone just to justify them. More over on a spidey falcon pair who in the heck is doing the damage? Its a 10-15 minute long match.

I dont know if you have spidey on your roster or not but I would say give him a whirl with these changes and then tell me if you think hes worth using over other characters you have at the same level.

Its not about adjusting to a new style or a non OP version of him. Its the fact that pretty much every relevant character in the game can do more with the same AP. And most of those characters also dont rely on protecting tiles to make those bad powers average. The issue is that hes balanced around having webs on the board. It takes too long to get them out and attempt to protect them. You have to match blue at all costs and its really not worth it because you have no clue how the board will fall after that. A web tile can be matched on the next turn. His powers are very bad with no tiles out.

Spoit

Again, all these arguments are predicated on already having 2 web tiles out, or starting with 10 blue AP. And even then, to actually keep a single person locked down, you need to average 1.6 blue a turn, or more than every other match needs to be a blue.

By comparison, FatCap starts stunning at 12, which in most cases is the same 4 matches to get the 'initial state' 10 AP for the 2 webs, puts down a protect tile that's actually stronger than the 3 web tile one each cast, has an effective average of .66, or not even a blue match every cycle, allows you to place tiles where they're actually able to avoid matching (and if you're down to stunlocking a single enemy, it's not like he's matching it away very often anyway) and actually has another useful ability. The only downside is that the enemy does get a move every so often.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

Again, all these arguments are predicated on already having 2 web tiles out, or starting with 10 blue AP. And even then, to actually keep a single person locked down, you need to average 1.6 blue a turn, or more than every other match needs to be a blue.

By comparison, FatCap starts stunning at 12, which in most cases is the same 4 matches to get the 'initial state' 10 AP for the 2 webs, puts down a protect tile that's actually stronger than the 3 web tile one each cast, has an effective average of .66, or not even a blue match every cycle, allows you to place tiles where they're actually able to avoid matching (and if you're down to stunlocking a single enemy, it's not like he's matching it away very often anyway) and actually has another useful ability. The only downside is that the enemy does get a move every so often.

exactly its almost like to keep this skill set they need to just remove the web tiles out and just make his abilities better at the base. Yes its less interesting but it would be better than the current state. A support character shouldn't be required to be the main color matcher for him to work.

buddy2034

I'm in the unhappy camp on this. I was as guilty as any of abusing him, but I think board control is a vital part of the game. The best options for that are OBW, Hood, Spidey and CMags. All I see now are maxed widows. I have her too; I just got so sick of her after making the initial transition to 3*. I don't have a maxed Hood and I'm trying to figure out Mags without the healing. It's just incredibly frustrating to know a week ago I could grind in PVP up to 900 without using healthpacks and now I find myself struggling to move up the board as quickly. It's not unfair, just new and slow - very slow. I've got the start of a solid team. Maxed Hulk, Pun and Patch with solid support . I just don't have the horses to keep up with the best out there which my experience showed as L Thor and Hood. Spidey is what built my team and I'm just lost right now to move on. It'll pass with time I'm sure.

Unknown

Happy that the nerf finally happened. Unhappy at the result and that there are now fewer solid control options in the game. Guess the positive thing is that I find myself looking at some of the characters I haven't considered Before.

Unknown

This is absolutely a Ragnarok-level trashing of a character. If they put the stun to 3ap and changed the max stunned turns to 3 like they did, he'd be fine. He's a 3 star. He's supposed to be a badass. Look at Lazythor and Lazycap, they're monsters! Black Panther can damn near wipe your team with his maxed black skill. But yeah, Spidey doesn't deserve to hang with the big boys because that would actually mean someone would have to do heir JOB. The only nerf that has actually been fair was 2 Star Wolverine. The rest have been complete knee-jerk garbage.

rixmith

Wow, I excepted to see a happy : unhappy ratio of about 1 : 10. As someone with only a couple Spidey covers (not enough to really ever use him but had to face him sometimes) I think he went from way overpowered to a little bit underpowered. But from my perspective on the Marvel Universe, Spidey shouldn't be the centerpiece of a team (unlike Thor, Hulk or Magneto) but a useful team mate. I think his Blue should be good enough to delay an opponent who has gotten enough AP to activate a big ability, but not so good it can stunlock the opposing team. I think that if the 5 Blue got you 2 turns of stun on one opponent instead of one he might be about right.

Unknown

He was completely OP garbage. The nerf was a bit heavy handed but good riddance all the same.

Unknown

rixmith wrote:

Wow, I excepted to see a happy : unhappy ratio of about 1 : 10. As someone with only a couple Spidey covers (not enough to really ever use him but had to face him sometimes) I think he went from way overpowered to a little bit underpowered. But from my perspective on the Marvel Universe, Spidey shouldn't be the centerpiece of a team (unlike Thor, Hulk or Magneto) but a useful team mate. I think his Blue should be good enough to delay an opponent who has gotten enough AP to activate a big ability, but not so good it can stunlock the opposing team. I think that if the 5 Blue got you 2 turns of stun on one opponent instead of one he might be about right.

my prediction was similar to yours. but i found that they are almost the same 1:1.
when i play this game in october, spiderman is a guarantee cover in 10 pack.

over_clocked

buddy2034 wrote:

I'm in the unhappy camp on this. I was as guilty as any of abusing him, but I think board control is a vital part of the game. The best options for that are OBW, Hood, Spidey and CMags. All I see now are maxed widows. I have her too; I just got so sick of her after making the initial transition to 3*. I don't have a maxed Hood and I'm trying to figure out Mags without the healing. It's just incredibly frustrating to know a week ago I could grind in PVP up to 900 without using healthpacks and now I find myself struggling to move up the board as quickly. It's not unfair, just new and slow - very slow. I've got the start of a solid team. Maxed Hulk, Pun and Patch with solid support . I just don't have the horses to keep up with the best out there which my experience showed as L Thor and Hood. Spidey is what built my team and I'm just lost right now to move on. It'll pass with time I'm sure.

Magneto can play for hours (okay maybe an hour) without a single healthpack, but then again he's next on the block. Just pair him with Punisher and go to Jungle/Desert. Punisher doesn't need to be leveled, you want his 4 environment strength. Collect blue, find environment matches, drop crits there. Since your Punisher is maxed, it's cool. Don't waste any AP on Psylocke's moves - Pun and Magneto are miles ahead of her.

Unknown

None of the above really fits. I'd have said, "He needed a nerf, this one was a bit overdone."