*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

Narkon wrote:

After losing 3 matches in a row in LR against Spiderman's blue I can say with certainty I am a strong supporter of the change. I won't care even if the change nerf him to hell. I don't want to play against another Spiderman who can stunlock my entire team for 4-5 turns even if it means I have 1 less hero to use. His design was flawed from the start and they took too long to nerf him. So good riddance.

I dont even think hes hard to play against. The AI doesnt use it multiple times in a row and web tiles are easily dispatched most of the time. I dont anyone in this thread who has issues with the changes is saying blue should stay as is. What people are saying is there was no need to nerf purple and blue was changed to be worse than even 1 star character stuns. The change to yellow IMO was ok.

He needed tweaking to blue. He instead got like 80% of the value taken off of purple. Hes worthless and while you are ok with it because hes obviously not on your roster it still is not a good trend at all for this game if they are willing to kill a character people spent lots of time and $ on.

Unknown

Narkon wrote:

After losing 3 matches in a row in LR against Spiderman's blue I can say with certainty I am a strong supporter of the change. I won't care even if the change nerf him to hell. I don't want to play against another Spiderman who can stunlock my entire team for 4-5 turns even if it means I have 1 less hero to use. His design was flawed from the start and they took too long to nerf him. So good riddance.

Mommy, I was just hit by thor yellow followed by green eradicating my team. Again! Pleeeease make D3 nerf thor for kicking my ****.


Now seriously, how about learning to play for a change? How hard it is to work around this completely dumb AI that every other time matches the webs away right on? Limited to 1 use per turn you must grant them blue and webs to make yourself stunlocked excessively, at least two shots to kill the 2 initial webs and even if by the third use your first guy is awake to work still. Then they need a third match of blue allowed as 2 uses costed 6...

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Narkon wrote:

After losing 3 matches in a row in LR against Spiderman's blue I can say with certainty I am a strong supporter of the change. I won't care even if the change nerf him to hell. I don't want to play against another Spiderman who can stunlock my entire team for 4-5 turns even if it means I have 1 less hero to use. His design was flawed from the start and they took too long to nerf him. So good riddance.

Mommy, I was just hit by thor yellow followed by green eradicating my team. Again! Pleeeease make D3 nerf thor for kicking my ****.


Now seriously, how about learning to play for a change? How hard it is to work around this completely dumb AI that every other time matches the webs away right on? Limited to 1 use per turn you must grant them blue and webs to make yourself stunlocked excessively, at least two shots to kill the 2 initial webs and even if by the third use your first guy is awake to work still. Then they need a third match of blue allowed as 2 uses costed 6...

Hilarious. You are a funny man. Congrats.

I don't know if you've been away, but the last weeks the AI is doing some crazy things. At least this is what experience lately. I asked in my alliance and 3-4 members said the same thing. I am fine with a crazy cascade once every 3-4 matches, but things are out of control. AI cascades are much more frequent for me now. Like you said, removing those web tiles is usually not an issue, but when you have a Spiderman with 8+ blue AP thanks to a cascade in the first 3 turns and the placement of web tiles makes it impossible to clear them there is not much you can do against Punisher and Patch who KO one hero after another. In another match Loki made the match even more frustrating with his shuffling. I didn't play for 4-5 turns and then I just retreated. It's no secret that the devs have trouble releasing balanced characters. If they are unable to balance someone, then I prefer a hard nerf instead of keeping him around causing problems.

Unknown

Honestly? I agree Spidey needed a nerf. Stunlocking has been a massive issue in many different games since you can't really balance around it and still have it in the game - and it's not fun. When you're doing it, it's not a challenge. And when it's done to you, it's just frustrating. No fun on either side.

This change goes too far and will kill the character.

I think simply just changing the stun to increase the base stun by 1 would be enough. So a 5 blue covers, it does 2-4 turns of stun for 0-2 web tiles on the board, for 5 blue ap. On the low end, a 2 stun stun is still pretty weak, but gets fairly powerful when you've done it enough. A 4 turn stun for 5 blue ap is quite good, but you would have had to burn 10 blue ap prior to getting there.

Basically it would shift 15 blue ap from being 6 turns of stun total to 9 turns of stun total. To maintain a stun lock - on a mere one character - you'd need to generate 1.25 blue ap/turn - or a blue match every 2.4 turns, which is pretty damn hard. It also ignore the 10 blue ap you had to dump in to get it started, plus you need to protect those randomly placed web tiles.

Unknown

Here's the thing for me. I started playing a few months ago, had fun, built up a few covers. Started to be able to compete, and enjoyed the game enough I decided to pay in to get a cover maxed out, I chose Spiderman because he seemed so useful. Bought the covers last week, now its nerfed to hell.

I PM-d and emailed asking for a way to recover this (coins refunded), no response. I would never choose or level this card with the new setup. Thor, Punisher, Hulk or wait for another now that spiderman is bagman+. Thing is, next week maybe Thor will be determined OP, or Hulk gets dropped to 1000 health at level 141 because that would be fun too.

Lesson learned. Never, ever, spend money on this game.

Phaserhawk

Ruval wrote:

Honestly? I agree Spidey needed a nerf. Stunlocking has been a massive issue in many different games since you can't really balance around it and still have it in the game - and it's not fun. When you're doing it, it's not a challenge. And when it's done to you, it's just frustrating. No fun on either side.

This change goes too far and will kill the character.

I think simply just changing the stun to increase the base stun by 1 would be enough. So a 5 blue covers, it does 2-4 turns of stun for 0-2 web tiles on the board, for 5 blue ap. On the low end, a 2 stun stun is still pretty weak, but gets fairly powerful when you've done it enough. A 4 turn stun for 5 blue ap is quite good, but you would have had to burn 10 blue ap prior to getting there.

Basically it would shift 15 blue ap from being 6 turns of stun total to 9 turns of stun total. To maintain a stun lock - on a mere one character - you'd need to generate 1.25 blue ap/turn - or a blue match every 2.4 turns, which is pretty damn hard. It also ignore the 10 blue ap you had to dump in to get it started, plus you need to protect those randomly placed web tiles.

Basically Spidey can't mass stun anymore, period. He can single target stun, and he can do it better than anyone else in the game even post nerf, so you have to take it with a grain of salt. Spidey may as well read, play with +3 blue AP boost. then you can get off your 2AP stun after first match. But, with enough skill you can still maintain a perma stun you just need to be smart on the board and hope for lots of blue tiles. But taking a guy out for 3 turns at 5AP? Seriously that's insanely good. I just wish they would have scrapped his heal and made it a damage spell instead.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Basically Spidey can't mass stun anymore, period. He can single target stun, and he can do it better than anyone else in the game even post nerf, so you have to take it with a grain of salt. Spidey may as well read, play with +3 blue AP boost. then you can get off your 2AP stun after first match. But, with enough skill you can still maintain a perma stun you just need to be smart on the board and hope for lots of blue tiles. But taking a guy out for 3 turns at 5AP? Seriously that's insanely good. I just wish they would have scrapped his heal and made it a damage spell instead.

I disagree that he can do it better than any character in the game post nerf. The cost is still high compared to other characters ap per character stunned and duration. Also you dont get to assume 3 turns of stun because it depends on if you can protect the web tiles. His first stun is 2 turns and the second one is 1-2 turns. For 10 AP. Which is 4 matches. For 4 matches Cap does a 2 turn stun and generates a massive prot tile (which he can place to protect it, unlike web tiles) and 3 turns later it refunds 10 ap making his next stun and prot tile cost 2 ap.

Im more pissed at the changes to purple than even blue. Blue **** him but the purple change takes him out of the support role. The reliance of all his abilities have on web tiles forces you to match blues for a SUPPORT character. he would be far better if they just removed web tiles and balanced his abilities in the middle somewhere between no tiles and max tiles. In order for his prot tiles to be good you have to have already made a couple web tiles and not matched other purples already clogging the board up with lower prot tiles. Why even bother when another character can kill a character or potentially a team in the time to takes to make his abilities even usable with multiple web tiles out.


HE'S BAD.

WilsonFisk

vayhle wrote:

Here's the thing for me. I started playing a few months ago, had fun, built up a few covers. Started to be able to compete, and enjoyed the game enough I decided to pay in to get a cover maxed out, I chose Spiderman because he seemed so useful. Bought the covers last week, now its nerfed to hell.

I PM-d and emailed asking for a way to recover this (coins refunded), no response. I would never choose or level this card with the new setup. Thor, Punisher, Hulk or wait for another now that spiderman is bagman+. Thing is, next week maybe Thor will be determined OP, or Hulk gets dropped to 1000 health at level 141 because that would be fun too.

Lesson learned. Never, ever, spend money on this game.

I bought the HP to boost my Spidey also. Contacted D3 and got nowhere. I then contacted Google Play support explaining to them that the product I purchased was changed post-purchase, and they gave me a FULL refund on an Asgard Treasure. I was just asking for HP back from D3, and acknowledging that they could take the covers as well.

So, my suggestion play hard ball and contact Google. I ended up with a refund and still have my boosted but soon worthless Spidey.

Unknown

WilsonFisk wrote:

vayhle wrote:

Here's the thing for me. I started playing a few months ago, had fun, built up a few covers. Started to be able to compete, and enjoyed the game enough I decided to pay in to get a cover maxed out, I chose Spiderman because he seemed so useful. Bought the covers last week, now its nerfed to hell.

I PM-d and emailed asking for a way to recover this (coins refunded), no response. I would never choose or level this card with the new setup. Thor, Punisher, Hulk or wait for another now that spiderman is bagman+. Thing is, next week maybe Thor will be determined OP, or Hulk gets dropped to 1000 health at level 141 because that would be fun too.

Lesson learned. Never, ever, spend money on this game.

I bought the HP to boost my Spidey also. Contacted D3 and got nowhere. I then contacted Google Play support explaining to them that the product I purchased was changed post-purchase, and they gave me a FULL refund on an Asgard Treasure. I was just asking for HP back from D3, and acknowledging that they could take the covers as well.

So, my suggestion play hard ball and contact Google. I ended up with a refund and still have my boosted but soon worthless Spidey.

Interesting I think anyone that spent actual money on ISO for him or covers and is upset should do this as well. Thank You

Unknown

Railing on people that used Spider-Man is just mean-spiriting. D3 designed the character and left it unchanged for 9+ months. Yeah, it was an overpowered character, but not a total gamebreaker. I'm still reeling that their "fix" is to slaughter the character's usefulness in all areas.

How tough would it be to change the stun from 2AP to 4AP (or even 5)? To cut the protect tile strength in half?

Instead, they just break the character. Like, worse than the Ragnarok nerf.

It's only a matter of time before OBW and other frequently used characters get the same. And it's not even about balance. It's about shutting down characters that might make people think "I don't need to buy more hero points / ISO this week."

Phaserhawk

mosaic wrote:

Railing on people that used Spider-Man is just mean-spiriting. D3 designed the character and left it unchanged for 9+ months. Yeah, it was an overpowered character, but not a total gamebreaker. I'm still reeling that their "fix" is to slaughter the character's usefulness in all areas.

How tough would it be to change the stun from 2AP to 4AP (or even 5)? To cut the protect tile strength in half?

Instead, they just break the character. Like, worse than the Ragnarok nerf.

It's only a matter of time before OBW and other frequently used characters get the same. And it's not even about balance. It's about shutting down characters that might make people think "I don't need to buy more hero points / ISO this week."

I'm not railing on people, in fact I'm jealous since my Spidey is 4/0/5, but to say you want a refund etc. back, after all the things Spidey got you in the first place is a little short sighted and selfish. It only makes sense to use the most efficient way to accomplish a goal, and Spidey did that, just like Rags did, just like C.Mags does. Although I never fear playing against a C.Mags which is why I"m a little miffed they are gonna nerf him, but Spidey and Rags allowed players who otherwise had no reason winning prizes, to win, where players who had a more well rounded lineup but maybe not all the characters, couldn't compete because they didn't have the 1. It's like saying I got 9/10 right, and someone else got 4/10 right, but he gets an A because the one question I got wrong was worth more points even though I have more knowledge about the subject, I didn't do well because I got the wrong problem to get wrong. Spidey is similiar, if you didn't have him, but had everything else, you would be at a disadvantage because one guy did have have him.

Unknown

Osaic wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

dlaw008 wrote:

I'm in the camp that they should have revised him completely. Remove the reliance on web tiles completely (I may post in another thread recommending that web tiles be removed from the game), turn one of his support powers into an offensive move, and generally make him more well-rounded. Spider-Man is stronger than Captain America in most versions, and known for his speed, stamina, willpower, intelligence, and wit. All D3 saw was a dude with web-shooters.

I agree. There are moments in the comics when Spidey can take out a whole team. The essence of the character's comic book powers are that he uses webs to tie up enemies, and his agility/spider sense make him extremely difficult to hit. His enemies get very annoyed while fighting him! (which I think is partly why his humor works. He can wisecrack as he jumps around because lumbering muscleheads can't catch him).

As I am a fan of flavor, I would love a Spidey in this game that played that way: keep his stun ability potent, turn his Spider Sense protect tiles into a dodge (like Hawkeye's Avoid). Remove the heal altogether, and give him one offensive combo power - like a flurry of blows that feel sort of like OBW's double hit, or a low cost/low damage AOE - something that would simulate his acrobatic attack style. He wouldn't be a damaging bruiser like Thor, but he couldn't be ignored either - he'd be annoying like a bug! This would feel much more like Spidey, and would keep him relevant without being OP. Current mpq Spidey doesn't get it quite right, but nerfed Spidey feels even more off base.

What about something like this? Still doesn't have a direct attack, but in terms of Spidey flavor I think this is closer.

Quick Thinking - Yellow 10 AP
Spider-Man is a master of improvising his combat and taking advantage of whatever is around. Instantly choose and use either of the current environment's abilities that you have enough Environmental AP for with 10% more effectiveness (uses Environmental AP as well).
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Increases boost to 20%.
Level 3: Increases boost to 30%.
Level 4: Increases boost to 40%.
Level 5: Increases boost to 50%.

I never really saw Spider-Man as a healer anyway, it seemed tacked on to his design so there would be a healer character. This seems more like Spidey to me, thinking fast and making do with whatever is around him. The way the boost would work would need to be figured out fore each Environment power. So hot dogs would heal 50% more at max level, Latverian strike tiles would be 50% stronger... those are weak, obviously. But Oasis creates 9 green tiles, Thorned Rose does 150 damage for 8 AP of each color... whoa, that's potent. Some would be harder to figure out, Narrow Alley would destroy more columns? Maybe? Containment Breach could add damage or stun? This would need a lot of tweaking but could be an interesting power. I am very interested to hear from other forum users their thoughts on how a power like this could operate in practice.

All Tied Up - Blue 8 AP
Spider-Man slings webs, stunning the enemy team for 1 turn. He then adds a Yellow Web tile to the board.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Stuns current enemy for 2 turns and enemy team for 1 turn
Level 3: Stuns current enemy for 3 turns and enemy team for 1 turn
Level 4: Stuns current enemy for 3 turns and enemy team for 1 turns, creates 2 Yellow Web tiles
Level 5: Stuns current enemy for 3 turns and enemy team for 2 turns, creates 2 Yellow Web tiles

Harder to perma-stun thanks to increased cost, but easier to stun a group temporarily. Now the stun would be about buying time to collect up a few more needed AP or change up the board somehow before the enemies get active again, not laughing at them as they live, work, age, retire, and die stuck in a web cocoon. The other factor would be tossing out web tiles at a slower rate (effectively 4 blue AP per tile at max level - too slow? still too fast? it's strictly better than Venom's web power by far with this idea as is), which become important for...

Spider-Sense - Purple Passive
(PASSIVE) Any time Spider-Man would lose more than 50% of his remaining health from a single attack, he senses the danger and uses his webs to swing clear. Prevent that damage and remove the webbing from 1 web tile. Ability does not activate if there are no web tiles on the board.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Activates with damage > 40% current health
Level 3: Activates with damage > 35% current health
Level 4: Activates with damage > 30% current health
Level 5: Activates with damage > 25% current health

THIS is Spider-Man being Spider-Man using Spider-Sense. He senses danger and reacts. The percentages are just a first thought, but something like this is how I imagine Spider-Sense translating to a game like MPQ. I like the idea of as Spider-Man becomes more and more injured, the more his Spider-Sense goes wild and he has to spend most of his time and web fluid just dodging. As he approaches the end of his health, he'll start dodging every attack until his webs run out, fitting with the idea of Spidey being terribly frustrating for enemies to fight against even if he's not doing huge damage.

NorthernPolarity

mosaic wrote:

Railing on people that used Spider-Man is just mean-spiriting. D3 designed the character and left it unchanged for 9+ months. Yeah, it was an overpowered character, but not a total gamebreaker. I'm still reeling that their "fix" is to slaughter the character's usefulness in all areas.

How tough would it be to change the stun from 2AP to 4AP (or even 5)? To cut the protect tile strength in half?

Instead, they just break the character. Like, worse than the Ragnarok nerf.

It's only a matter of time before OBW and other frequently used characters get the same. And it's not even about balance. It's about shutting down characters that might make people think "I don't need to buy more hero points / ISO this week."

Even though these nerfs are a little overdone, you're going a little overboard in comparing them to the rags nerf. Spidey always has a place as a prologue healbot: Rags just straight up can't be used anywhere except in tournaments that force him to be used.

Unknown

A stronger heal than Original Black Widow, a 3 turn 5AP stun, and Passive Protect tiles? Bag-Man v2?

Can I have some of the stuff you guys are smoking?

Seriously though, why are people complaining about this. Oh Boo-Hoo I can't spam All-Tied-Up over and over again and beat every single person in this game. Let's add to the fact that his heal was worthless unless there was ten or more Web Tiles on the board.

I see people raging when they go against him now in pvp and see he heals his team for 3000 just like the 2* players are raging at the 1200 OBW team heal.

He is still a strong 3* support that is still useful in PVP and PVE.

Unknown

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8042&start=20#p147987 IceIX just stated officially that devs don't give a flying kitty about all our babbling. Sure we knew it already but it was not made so explicit.

Joining to recent suggestion in the Suggestions group to close it down, such threads look as futile for the future.

Unknown

Its a 2 turn stun not 3. 3 is only after a web tile is out and assumes youve been able to protect it till you have another 5 blue AP. So 10 AP is 5 turns of stun. But 15 AP can also be 6 turns of stun if web tiles are matched.

His passive protect tiles are a joke. (again until you have web tiles out)

The reason he isnt good as support is his abilities all rely on you making web tiles and managing to keep them in tact. Having to match and use 15 blue ap to get web tiles before you ever match any purple to get better protect tiles is anything but a support character. If they ditched web tiles and just made the poiwers somewhere in between what they un with 0 webs and 2 webs he might be ok...

gambl0r312

Just had some sort of data update/reload going on 10 mins ago

I fingured I'd check my spidey,...

He has now been changed as the devs intended: my 5 Blue ability now has the 5 AP stun instead of my original 2 AP stun at 5 Blue covers...

Other changes include the 5 Purple (Passive) ability dropping a Max of 4 Protect tiles instead of the original 3 Max at 5 Purple covers....

Haven't had the heart to look at my 3 Yellow cover ability yet



Pour one out for ol' Spidey, he joins Rags, Loki now....they await C. Mags next....


On the positive side, maybe this will result in people not getting ganked for -40 as easily on the last days of a tourney.... yea right...

EDIT: Soo true UncleSam!

gambl0r312

Just had some sort of data update/reload going on 10 mins ago

I fingured I'd check my spidey,...

He has now been changed as the devs intended: my 5 Blue ability now has the 5 AP stun instead of my original 2 AP stun at 5 Blue covers...

Other changes include the 5 Purple (Passive) ability dropping a Max of 4 Protect tiles instead of the original 3 Max at 5 Purple covers....

Unknown

gambl0r312 wrote:

On the positive side, maybe this will result in people not getting ganked for -40 as easily on the last days of a tourney.... yea right...

That may have been true a couple of weeks ago, but with the latest matchmaking changes you're going to get ganked with or without spiderman.

Unknown

Spiderman now is useless,even the 2 stars widow is better...
We spend money to bump spiderman as our principal character so they need to destroy it to make us spend more for other heroes.
It's just a money matter painted as a balancing action.
Not fair... But i don't think they cares, they just want to gain more money