*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

DD-The-Mighty

Osaic wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

dlaw008 wrote:

I'm in the camp that they should have revised him completely. Remove the reliance on web tiles completely (I may post in another thread recommending that web tiles be removed from the game), turn one of his support powers into an offensive move, and generally make him more well-rounded. Spider-Man is stronger than Captain America in most versions, and known for his speed, stamina, willpower, intelligence, and wit. All D3 saw was a dude with web-shooters.

As I am a fan of flavor, I would love a Spidey in this game that played that way: keep his stun ability potent, turn his Spider Sense protect tiles into a dodge (like Hawkeye's Avoid). Remove the heal altogether, and give him one offensive combo power - like a flurry of blows that feel sort of like OBW's double hit, or a low cost/low damage AOE - something that would simulate his acrobatic attack style. He wouldn't be a damaging bruiser like Thor, but he couldn't be ignored either - he'd be annoying like a bug! This would feel much more like Spidey, and would keep him relevant without being OP. Current mpq Spidey doesn't get it quite right, but nerfed Spidey feels even more off base.

There's enough solid damage dealers in the three 3 range as it is. More good utitlity characters would be welcome as to give folks more options than Hood, Dakan and Cpt. Falcon. In addition to the very appropriate dodge idea (websense tingling. its perfect), Perhaps have him actually be a good bagman. More board control through the use of selectable web-lockdown tiles. there really isn't much of that used in the pvp game since noone seriously fields bag-man. Trade the stun for say a 6ap+ rankable lock-down tiles (maybe spike cost per level for more tiles per cast), keep the yellow healing, but make it like Phantron said: straight up heal with maybe a slight bonus for having webtiles out. (like 2* clawbubs green or a better ver of BP's yellow)

It would be nice to see lockdown tiles introduced into the pvp meta as its probably going to be a looong time before there are a lot of Usable IW's in the pvp arena. See a potential cascade but want to get that last match to pop off your AOE? lock down those tiles and cripple your opponent. It would certainly capture oBW one true strength: you cant ignore her. Leave her to long and shell bite you in the tinykitty later. that buys your ai def force time to power up.

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

It's not really comparable. Wolvie needs to hit 9 green AP before he can really start hurting you, and you still have an opportunity to mount some form of heavily buffed offense if he doesn't immediately murder your team (difficult). Whereas with Spidey, you match blue once, stun a char; match blue again, stun the next two; then you have quite a bit of time to keep making blue matches. By "good cascade" I meant "hits blue twice" or "hits a 4+ blue match". The problem is with how the skill is conceived. It ends games way too fast. That's the big difference between Spidey and Patch, IMO. My point was mainly "of course the nerf is going to be heavy-handed - the line between way too good and awful is paper-thin!". Unless you want to argue that he didn't need a nerf, in which case... Well, you're wrong.

See, this is the problem. Nobody plays this way. This is a description of how to play with Spiderman from a person who is either using Spiderman incorrectly or only watching the computer play with Spiderman. If you stun an opponent, then make a match, then stun two opponents, your first opponent is up again. You don't stun lock an entire team one match at a time. That's the **** the computer tries, and without a massively blue board it isn't going to happen. Also, it happens gradually; if you can shut off the computer's blue or smash up some of its web tiles along the way then it stops. The phrase "ends games way too fast" simply cannot be reasonably applied to this ability. It does anything but--and that's why Spidey isn't some sort of ubiquitous menace in PvP (that honor belongs to Fat Thor).

Again, I'm not defending the current build of ATU. It does bad things in PvE. But in PvP...I'm pretty happy to fight teams that include Spiderman, and he can almost always be safely saved for last in kill order. If he gets tons of blue he can lock down your entire team. That's true. But it takes a lot of blue AP for the computer to actually stun lock your team. Consider that using one stun on each of your guys in two rotations (which is roughly what the computer would have to do, assuming you don't match away any yellow tiles in the interim) costs 12 AP. If Black Panther gets that much in black all of your guys take 3k damage. Somehow Spiderman is the one ending matches quickly?

GumisK

This is how I see it.

Unknown

bloodwars wrote:

he's bagmanman.

new heal is fine. new purple is pretty weak. new blue is terrible. i understand and agree that his pre-nerf form is too strong, but they went too far the other way. he'll be used about as much as daredevil in pvp/pve now.

I agree. Still, I voted Happy because I have 2 reasons to be happy and only 1 to be unhappy.
Happy #1: Opponents with maxed Spidey will have to fight my team instead of stun-locking it and having a walk in the park.
Happy #2: With ISO being tight and 2-3 heroes I consider maxing, having 1 less hero I want to max is not that bad.

Unhappy #1: I guess I will see even more OBW teams. I use her myself since she is the only viable hero I have that can heal, but even I have become tired of her. I never skip a team because of her and she is easy to beat, but less useful heroes means less variety.

Unknown

Anytime a character ceases to be viable, we lose something. For the metagame to be interesting, there need to be more viable combinations. Spiderman before the nerf was bad for part of the game, but he was by no means Ragnarok-calibre broken. Using the nuclear option on him is just sad.

Unknown

The funny part is how people keep thinking that anyone who complains is just pissed that we can't stun lock anymore
I know that for at least me I couldn't give a tinykitty if they completely removed Spideys stun.
Let me repeat that. I don't give a tinykitty about losing the stun.
I hope that sinks in.
However what does aggravate me is is that these changes completely ruin the usefullness of all 3 abilities to be used in any meaningful way.
They could have just made his blue a passive that gave a webtile for each match nothing fancy nothing else needed,go ahead nuke the rest to what it is now but at least then he'd still be somewhat viable to use for the defense tiles if nothing else.

-edit- yes I know prologue healing but even then I would just use him ANS obw + who I was trying to heal rather then use Spidey alone as that would take forever.

Yup, i have only 3 Spidey covers, and if, in future(if there is any future becouse, for me, game with new brackets and lvl-sacling is discouraging), i ever need place for other char i probably sell him becouse "new" Spidey is now weaker in healing than Black Widow, weaker in making defence tiles than Captain or Bullseye and weaker in stuns than Venom (1* character!).

(PS. as always: sorry for my engrish :b)

Phaserhawk

After this last Daken tournament, I for one will be glad to see the webslinger put to rest. While I don't like what they did for his nerf, as I think this character really needed a redesign, I was losing to teams with barely covered 3*'s 1* and 2* as primary team and they had one 3*, at 141 and yup, that would be spiderman, and I was consistently losing to these teams with a maxed out LT and Hood. But the only reason they were competitive was Spiderman, so yes he is a problem, that being said, I still think d3 went the wrong way with him by just nerfing him across the board, i really hope this is a nerf to fix the current problem of being overpowered and at least making him semi-playable while they rework him to something else, I know that's not gonna happen, but it helps me sleep at night.

Unknown

How do you guys managed the enemies with countdown like maggia and hammers at high levels?

Unknown

wuming79 wrote:

How do you guys managed the enemies with countdown like maggia and hammers at high levels?

With C. Mag's blue to convert the countdown tiles of course. That's why C. Mag's next on the nerf list.

Bowgentle

Can we get this nerf over with and implement it, _please_?
It's not like we haven't been waiting for over 4 months for it, and of course it would make way too much sense to switch this to live _before_ a PVE so that scaling is at least somewhat kept in check.

Do it. Now.

Nemek

Bowgentle wrote:

Can we get this nerf over with and implement it, _please_?
It's not like we haven't been waiting for over 4 months for it, and of course it would make way too much sense to switch this to live _before_ a PVE so that scaling is at least somewhat kept in check.

Do it. Now.

I think it makes way more sense to do it after season 1 is over.

Getting 1000+ points in Shield Sim in a single play through for Spidey's victory tour seems fitting.

Unknown

Im tired of being beaten by weak spidey teams in KKD
if you wanna nerf him, do it now!

Unknown

wuming79 wrote:

How do you guys managed the enemies with countdown like maggia and hammers at high levels?

If you don't have 3*s, mStorm using her red and green, OBW using her blue, and a thor using his yellow can keep goons under control quite effectively at any level

Unknown

My Spidey was at 4/0/0 since forever, and last month I pulled a single blue cover bringing him to 4/1/0

In the past week I've pulled 3 Spidey covers

Is there a d3p conspiracy against me??

Unknown

Honestly, I can't imagine, how can I survive a 395 level PVE enemies without the 2AP stun. These enemies have so high hp (20 000), that it is impossible to kill them before they kill me, it's just simple math. 5AP stun for max 3 turns is called a less significant change ? This is the most important change which by my opinion makes spiderman almost useless for >200 lvl enemies. For me this is definitely the last drop and I quit this game. Not just nobody cares the European players, where most tournaments end 6am and to be successful, you simply must play last few hours, but this is the 2-nd time I have invested in character which is later made almost useless. Knowing that in advance I would invest in something else. Dear developers, if you break the agreement (you offer abilities, I purchase, you change it), you should return the investment made as it works in the whole civilized world. If you sell me anything, and later you remotely change it's functionality, you have to accept the return of equipment and return the money. Somehow I survived this approach in case of thor, but now, which character should I invest in ? Clearly not the strongest one as you permanently destroy investments made in strongest characters. I consider that highly unserious.

Unknown

Berto_Y wrote:

wuming79 wrote:

How do you guys managed the enemies with countdown like maggia and hammers at high levels?

With C. Mag's blue to convert the countdown tiles of course. That's why C. Mag's next on the nerf list.

Yah so I don't want to invest more on c mag because of this. The way they nerf, it's going to destroy c mag.

Unknown

They really should offer a complete character refund for this. I spent a lot of Hero Points, some of which were purchased, to obtain the one character who could make a difference in difficult battles. Now he can't do the thing I need him to do, and I have nothing to replace him with. I'm dead. I'm dead because D3 has nerfed one OP character and left me to the mercy OF ALL THE OTHER OP CHARACTERS! How fair is it that I have my Black Widow maxed and need Spider-Man to stall while she picks up useless, damage-free greens on the way to her overpriced sniper attack, while my opponent's Magneto and Patch just murder me outright? So, they'll nerf Spider-Man so that he doesn't do his best trick, they'll let BW continue to pay 18 for 4000 damage, and they'll let Magneto do the same for ten? Magnetic Translocation is broken as in it doesn't nearly work like it should. It should be called Cheap Murder.

I may just stop playing this now.

Unknown

Nemek wrote:

Bowgentle wrote:

Can we get this nerf over with and implement it, _please_?
It's not like we haven't been waiting for over 4 months for it, and of course it would make way too much sense to switch this to live _before_ a PVE so that scaling is at least somewhat kept in check.

Do it. Now.

I think it makes way more sense to do it after season 1 is over.

Getting 1000+ points in Shield Sim in a single play through for Spidey's victory tour seems fitting.

The funbalance message is up on the news page of the game. Likely, the change will occur tomorrow afternoon, once the Season closes.

Or, you know, exactly 42 minutes or so before the end of it, leading to massive server downtime that prevents anyone from playing for the last hour of the Versus/Season events.

Unknown

Vertigozooropa wrote:

They really should offer a complete character refund for this. I spent a lot of Hero Points, some of which were purchased, to obtain the one character who could make a difference in difficult battles. Now he can't do the thing I need him to do, and I have nothing to replace him with. I'm dead. I'm dead because D3 has nerfed one OP character and left me to the mercy OF ALL THE OTHER OP CHARACTERS! How fair is it that I have my Black Widow maxed and need Spider-Man to stall while she picks up useless, damage-free greens on the way to her overpriced sniper attack, while my opponent's Magneto and Patch just murder me outright? So, they'll nerf Spider-Man so that he doesn't do his best trick, they'll let BW continue to pay 18 for 4000 damage, and they'll let Magneto do the same for ten? Magnetic Translocation is broken as in it doesn't nearly work like it should. It should be called Cheap Murder.

I may just stop playing this now.

I feel your pain Vertigo and agree with the refund. While I hate to say it as I don't like nerfs, Spidey was definitely OP. I would rather they just up the stars and make him a legendary or something, but I understand their nerf.

But that being said, for this reason I can't see myself ever paying to upgrade a character anymore. That's a lot of money spent only to watch it go down the drain.

Unknown

Vertigozooropa wrote:

They really should offer a complete character refund for this. I spent a lot of Hero Points, some of which were purchased, to obtain the one character who could make a difference in difficult battles. Now he can't do the thing I need him to do, and I have nothing to replace him with. I'm dead. I'm dead because D3 has nerfed one OP character and left me to the mercy OF ALL THE OTHER OP CHARACTERS! How fair is it that I have my Black Widow maxed and need Spider-Man to stall while she picks up useless, damage-free greens on the way to her overpriced sniper attack, while my opponent's Magneto and Patch just murder me outright? So, they'll nerf Spider-Man so that he doesn't do his best trick, they'll let BW continue to pay 18 for 4000 damage, and they'll let Magneto do the same for ten? Magnetic Translocation is broken as in it doesn't nearly work like it should. It should be called Cheap Murder.

I may just stop playing this now.

Wrong forum to complain about Magneto but his purple was already fixed and is far from the best ability in the game.

Spiderman needed to be fixed for the good of the game and maybe they went overboard on the blue nerf, pink change is still in the air, but yellow seems completely fair. A lvl 50 spiderman could enable you with 5 blue covers to beat any 3 141s in the game basically with 100% consistency and that is very broken. Hopefully the scaling for pve will be reversed now. . . . *crosses fingers*