*** Spider-Man (Classic) ***

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Im still not seeing what all the fuss is about. I guess my argument can be broken down into two points:
1. Do you think that the old spidey was overpowered? If you cant understand why having a character that literally trivializes every fight in the game, then i dont know what else to say. Seems pretty obvious that a 5 blue spidey / two maxed 2* characters shouldnt easily beat 3 maxed out 3* characters and leave the fight with full health.

2. A pure defensive character that is also bad on defense has no place in the current pvp meta, which is about minimizing retaliations through team comp intimidation and fast wins to minimize time spent unshielded at high point totals.

If you agree with point 1, then you agree that spidey has to be nerfed in some way. If you agree with point 2, then you agree that even the current overpowered spidey is useless in PvP. Put the two together, and you should see that regardless of how Demiurge decides to nerf Spidey, if they want to maintain his original character concept, then he's always going to be useless in PvP unless the meta shifts somehow. While I agree that blue is probably underpowered now and could have cost maybe 4AP or so, I would much rather have a weaker Spidey in the game than the current OP iteration that we have right now. I just feel like all of the complaining and crying is wasted when the usage of the character isn't going to change except for the small percentage of people in the game that actually have a 5 blue Spidey (which is pretty freaking hard to do without spending HP considering how little he's been given out) and do not have a fully developed 3* roster, which I doubt represent most of the users who are complaining

I don't agree that a hero lacking a place in the current PvP meta is a good justification for making him essentially useless and I don't see that IN ANY WAY the options were either "OP spiderman" or "pretty much useless spiderman". People have potentially spent real money on spiderman through covers and/or ISO to level him and don't deserve to be ripped off. Hell, you could almost make an argument they've been the victim of a bait and switch with the way his usefulness has been gutted after they parted with their cash.

NorthernPolarity

bonfire01 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Im still not seeing what all the fuss is about. I guess my argument can be broken down into two points:
1. Do you think that the old spidey was overpowered? If you cant understand why having a character that literally trivializes every fight in the game, then i dont know what else to say. Seems pretty obvious that a 5 blue spidey / two maxed 2* characters shouldnt easily beat 3 maxed out 3* characters and leave the fight with full health.

2. A pure defensive character that is also bad on defense has no place in the current pvp meta, which is about minimizing retaliations through team comp intimidation and fast wins to minimize time spent unshielded at high point totals.

If you agree with point 1, then you agree that spidey has to be nerfed in some way. If you agree with point 2, then you agree that even the current overpowered spidey is useless in PvP. Put the two together, and you should see that regardless of how Demiurge decides to nerf Spidey, if they want to maintain his original character concept, then he's always going to be useless in PvP unless the meta shifts somehow. While I agree that blue is probably underpowered now and could have cost maybe 4AP or so, I would much rather have a weaker Spidey in the game than the current OP iteration that we have right now. I just feel like all of the complaining and crying is wasted when the usage of the character isn't going to change except for the small percentage of people in the game that actually have a 5 blue Spidey (which is pretty freaking hard to do without spending HP considering how little he's been given out) and do not have a fully developed 3* roster, which I doubt represent most of the users who are complaining

I don't agree that a hero lacking a place in the current PvP meta is a good justification for making him essentially useless and I don't see that IN ANY WAY the options were either "OP spiderman" or "pretty much useless spiderman". People have potentially spent real money on spiderman through covers and/or ISO to level him and don't deserve to be ripped off. Hell, you could almost make an argument they've been the victim of a bait and switch with the way his usefulness has been gutted after they parted with their cash.

The new iteration isn't really essentially useless in your terms: Spidey's niche has always been to keep your team relatively healthy at the expense of any offensive capability. This new version pretty much still does that at reasonable levels: his yellow is a 3.1k heal most of the time since you're going to drag out the fight till you get 3 web tiles for the extra heal, and random stuns/protect tiles help you reach that goal as well. I do agree that 5AP seems a bit much for his blue right now. Like I said earlier, 4AP would have probably been closer to making him balanced since that would let him lock down 1 guy throughout the match for ~12 blue AP, which is about as powerful as you can make the ability without it being broken. I'm not even sure how the 5AP stun plays out: its obviously terrible compared to 2AP stuns but it might not be as bad as we think it'll be.

Unknown

I always have a rythem going in my head and then I lose it 3-4 lines in. Had to re-read this multiple times

Unknown

thank you for your kind attention!!!!

***
Edited to include final poll results.

Item - Votes - % of Total Votes
happy - 80 - 40%
unhappy - 92 - 46%
no comment - 27 - 14%

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I'm not even sure how the 5AP stun plays out: its obviously terrible compared to 2AP stuns but it might not be as bad as we think it'll be.

The devs say that they expect you to have to use 15AP for spidey to be in-line with what they are envisioning. So I'll just point this out. For everyone who uses Thor.
How often do you just go, oops look I get to use Call the Storm.

Let's be honest it doesnt happen and when you use it, it typically either ends the match or puts you WELL into position to end it shortly there after.
That's not the case with Spidey. Thats what it takes to basically have him just get started.

daveomite

I would have clicked "Happy", but I didn't have enough blue.

Copps

I'm glad it's finally happening and without making him useless for healing to boot.

Unknown

This change was sorely needed. Not only was he a guaranteed win character, he was very annoying to go against when successive turns were nothing but stuns. So they managed to keep the flavor of the character while managing to bring him more in line with other 3* characters. That is a big A+ in change to me.

Unknown

New Spidey animations should include a wheelchair since he has been crippled.

Unknown

Spiderpig, spiderpig...

Twysta

MTGOFerret wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I'm not even sure how the 5AP stun plays out: its obviously terrible compared to 2AP stuns but it might not be as bad as we think it'll be.

The devs say that they expect you to have to use 15AP for spidey to be in-line with what they are envisioning. So I'll just point this out. For everyone who uses Thor.
How often do you just go, oops look I get to use Call the Storm.

Let's be honest it doesnt happen and when you use it, it typically either ends the match or puts you WELL into position to end it shortly there after.
That's not the case with Spidey. Thats what it takes to basically have him just get started.

Tbh, it's a lot easier with his yellow.
Although it's not like spidey has any blue generation. I guess MN Mags just became even bester friends with Spidey.

Unknown

If we can only pick between pre and post-nerf spidey I pick post-nerf.

Sure I wish the re-balancing had been done differently but meh, that seems to be the nature of the beast.

Spoit

beezer37_84 wrote:

If we can only pick between pre and post-nerf spidey I pick post-nerf.

Sure I wish the re-balancing had been done differently but meh, that seems to be the nature of the beast.

Yeah, I just wish they had a nerf mode that was a bit more moderate than ragman mode.

Unknown

Spiderman, Spiderman
Found a bag in a trashcan
cost 2 blue, now costs 5
Some yell "YES!," others cry
Oh no!
Now he's the new Bagman.

he still strong? Listen bud!
What was strong is now a dud
Can he still stun-lock thier team?
Not unless you're in a dream.
Ka-slam!
Guess he's the new Bagman.

From the front of the pack
To the back of the tier list
He's a sack on the team
A benign mucosal cyst

New Bagman, New Bagman
New 3 star with nary a fan
Just like rag, he's ignored
Watch him become every reward
But if,
they make one that's a 4star
You'll throw your money so far
Well damn, they nerfed the Spiderman

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

MTGOFerret wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I'm not even sure how the 5AP stun plays out: its obviously terrible compared to 2AP stuns but it might not be as bad as we think it'll be.

The devs say that they expect you to have to use 15AP for spidey to be in-line with what they are envisioning. So I'll just point this out. For everyone who uses Thor.
How often do you just go, oops look I get to use Call the Storm.

Let's be honest it doesnt happen and when you use it, it typically either ends the match or puts you WELL into position to end it shortly there after.
That's not the case with Spidey. Thats what it takes to basically have him just get started.

Tbh, it's a lot easier with his yellow.
Although it's not like spidey has any blue generation. I guess MN Mags just became even bester friends with Spidey.

And this is why LT is a bit much and should've been nerfed pre-release a la BP. 14 green AP to end the game, half of which he generates without need for a secondary support char

Unknown

I think people are way too caught up on having to use ATU just because ATU used to be incredibly broken.

Assuming you're going with a standard wimp-out approach you should just collect yellow because you heal considerably more for 24y versus 9y + 15blue and they're the same total amount of AP. Sure collecting 24y is likely harder than latter, but the former also heals for a lot more. If you happen to have enough blue along the way to do something useful that's good too, but 2 Web Bandages should allow a relatively safe victory. Since ATU can no longer stunlock you can no longer just challenge teams you've no business of beating, but the teams that you are around your level, 2 Web Bandages should still allow you to win while taking minimal damage, even though those fights will be pretty slow.

Unknown

Not happy Jan. Only on the one or two rare occasions did he ever 'go off' on me.. and any character can do that and pull off a win, in fact with the recent power level of more recent covers i don't think it was needed anymore.. but i'm probably biased.

Unknown

Very happy. Still tactically useful, solid healing, and no OP stunlock.

Spoit

Phantron wrote:

I think people are way too caught up on having to use ATU just because ATU used to be incredibly broken.

Assuming you're going with a standard wimp-out approach you should just collect yellow because you heal considerably more for 24y versus 9y + 15blue and they're the same total amount of AP. Sure collecting 24y is likely harder than latter, but the former also heals for a lot more. If you happen to have enough blue along the way to do something useful that's good too, but 2 Web Bandages should allow a relatively safe victory. Since ATU can no longer stunlock you can no longer just challenge teams you've no business of beating, but the teams that you are around your level, 2 Web Bandages should still allow you to win while taking minimal damage, even though those fights will be pretty slow.

sure, for prologue healing (which actually probably will be faster now). But that's still wasting a slot on a character with very little marginal utility. Especially since that way you're just getting yellow, which is really only used by L. Thor. At least with blue, you're denying other, actually useful, powers.

If all you care about is rushing to a heal, again, OBW brings more utility. You can go for purple, and drain all the other powers too, or you can just go for the blue to heal

WilsonFisk

Nerdrage - best sig pic ever!