New Feature - Saved Covers *Updated (6/19/18)

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Comments

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    sinnerjfl said:
    optimus2861 said:
    I sympathize but I am not a LL-only 5* champ player, nor do I ever plan to be one, so that's simply not a factor for me. If I were to take a little darker view, those of you in that land had to know that they weren't going to keep doing 1:1 customer support 5* cover swaps forever. It was a band-aid and eventually the hammer was going to drop, and probably, as in typical freemium game ways, do so in a way to be a little (or a lot) unfriendly to the player.

    The house always wins.
    Typical answer from people not understanding what just happened and thinking yeah this is great!!!

    If any of you ever switch to the 5* tier, you'll realize how difficult they are to cover and this great new feature (while removing Latests swap) is a huge negative.
    But this is not just the 5 star tier. This is a net positive for the players as a whole.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    tiomono said:
    But this is not just the 5 star tier. This is a net positive for the players as a whole.
    But why do they need to tinykitty over the veterans in the 5* tier in order to introduce a feature again?


  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    sinnerjfl said:
    tiomono said:
    But this is not just the 5 star tier. This is a net positive for the players as a whole.
    But why do they need to tinykitty over the veterans in the 5* tier in order to introduce a feature again?


    They explained why. I look at it and do not see it as disadvantaging anybody.

    Sure letting latest swaps carry on as long as they did set people up to expect them. They never claimed that was a long term solution and it was actually quite generous of them. 

    Now we have an in game system to handle 6th covers for 2*-5*. While it may not be perfect in every players eyes they frequently do make changes to existing systems to balance them out.

    They are gathering information from all players not just the top 10%. This is a net positive for the game and a welcome change in my opinion.
  • Player1575
    Player1575 Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    Based on the reaction of the main buy club on Line I'm gonna go ahead and call it now that this game will close down before it makes it back around to the next Soul Season in pvp.

    Pull your covers now people! The game won't be around in 6 months for you to pull them then!
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    SnowcaTT said:
    Wow, just wow. I thought maybe, FINALLY the long needed "colorless covers" would be implemented.

    Instead, we get this. I'm not a big spender here, but what little I did spend I regret and will make sure I don't make that mistake again.

    Want to hear funny insult to injury? I have a 5/5/2 widow and a 2/2/0 widow. I just got daily drop Widow purple (SO HELPFUL!), asked for exchange, denied. Ask for one time exemption which -I've never gotten- denied.

    Their example of saved covers? Purple Widow. Now I'll have a 2nd widow at 3/2/0 and I guess it didn't go into "saved" in time so I'll have five covers to exchange! Oh wait, that's right....I can't even swap those five dead draws that I've pulled at a ridiculous 5:1 rate to finish Widow....who if I could finish would be a character I would never use because the imbalance of characters (along with never fixing, old or new) is incredible.

    Only mega-hoard cracking makes any sense now, and that is just awful game design.
    What are you even talking about?  You just outlined the most perfect optimal condition for how someone could benefit from this new system.  You could have banked all 5 of those Widow covers, then when you get the next one from resupply you champ her, and are sitting on a 455 Widow with ZERO waste.  Under the old system you have basically wasted all 5 of those covers.  This is unquestionably an improvement in this scenario yet you are here complaining about ever having spent money on this game.

    tinykitty this place is so toxic.

    "Could have". Note that I've pulled five extra Widows over the last two years, and this system is not yet in place.

    So when I bank five more over the next two years, I'll be set.
  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    SnowcaTT said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    SnowcaTT said:
    Wow, just wow. I thought maybe, FINALLY the long needed "colorless covers" would be implemented.

    Instead, we get this. I'm not a big spender here, but what little I did spend I regret and will make sure I don't make that mistake again.

    Want to hear funny insult to injury? I have a 5/5/2 widow and a 2/2/0 widow. I just got daily drop Widow purple (SO HELPFUL!), asked for exchange, denied. Ask for one time exemption which -I've never gotten- denied.

    Their example of saved covers? Purple Widow. Now I'll have a 2nd widow at 3/2/0 and I guess it didn't go into "saved" in time so I'll have five covers to exchange! Oh wait, that's right....I can't even swap those five dead draws that I've pulled at a ridiculous 5:1 rate to finish Widow....who if I could finish would be a character I would never use because the imbalance of characters (along with never fixing, old or new) is incredible.

    Only mega-hoard cracking makes any sense now, and that is just awful game design.
    What are you even talking about?  You just outlined the most perfect optimal condition for how someone could benefit from this new system.  You could have banked all 5 of those Widow covers, then when you get the next one from resupply you champ her, and are sitting on a 455 Widow with ZERO waste.  Under the old system you have basically wasted all 5 of those covers.  This is unquestionably an improvement in this scenario yet you are here complaining about ever having spent money on this game.

    tinykitty this place is so toxic.

    "Could have". Note that I've pulled five extra Widows over the last two years, and this system is not yet in place.

    So when I bank five more over the next two years, I'll be set.
    You outlined a problem under the current system.  A new system was just introduced that solves your problem so that it can't happen again in the future......and you are complaining about it.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2018
    Player1575 said:
    Based on the reaction of the main buy club on Line I'm gonna go ahead and call it now that this game will close down before it makes it back around to the next Soul Season in pvp.

    Pull your covers now people! The game won't be around in 6 months for you to pull them then!
    Yes because buy clubs are the only source of revenue for this game /sarcasm. They are huge don't get me wrong but plenty of other players put money in.

    My alliance is mostly people just getting into 3 star land. The past 2 days I have gotten 6 cp from ally purchases. These are people that enjoy the game spend money on it right now, and have no idea this change is coming. This change is huge for developing roosters and will likely be met with excitement for over 50% of the player base. That is a good thing for the long term health of the game.
  • Coubii
    Coubii Posts: 133 Tile Toppler
    Quite happy to see this feature!
    My 4* record is a 8th green cover for Lockjaw. On lower rarity, I never reached a number of duplicated covers where I would have lost something with this feature. So, this is total benefit!
    And it will also reduce my HfH buy. No longer need to buy the 13th cover to avoid loss. Really great feature.
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    SnowcaTT said:
    Wow, just wow. I thought maybe, FINALLY the long needed "colorless covers" would be implemented.

    Instead, we get this. I'm not a big spender here, but what little I did spend I regret and will make sure I don't make that mistake again.

    Want to hear funny insult to injury? I have a 5/5/2 widow and a 2/2/0 widow. I just got daily drop Widow purple (SO HELPFUL!), asked for exchange, denied. Ask for one time exemption which -I've never gotten- denied.

    Their example of saved covers? Purple Widow. Now I'll have a 2nd widow at 3/2/0 and I guess it didn't go into "saved" in time so I'll have five covers to exchange! Oh wait, that's right....I can't even swap those five dead draws that I've pulled at a ridiculous 5:1 rate to finish Widow....who if I could finish would be a character I would never use because the imbalance of characters (along with never fixing, old or new) is incredible.

    Only mega-hoard cracking makes any sense now, and that is just awful game design.
    What are you even talking about?  You just outlined the most perfect optimal condition for how someone could benefit from this new system.  You could have banked all 5 of those Widow covers, then when you get the next one from resupply you champ her, and are sitting on a 455 Widow with ZERO waste.  Under the old system you have basically wasted all 5 of those covers.  This is unquestionably an improvement in this scenario yet you are here complaining about ever having spent money on this game.

    tinykitty this place is so toxic.
    He would only have a 455 Widow with those 5 saved if he pulled the missing one. If the next one was the wrong color, he could choose to sacrifice 4 covers to Champ her and have a 451 Widow.

    However to do so he would have to burn the equivalent of (22 in Classics) x (1:7 drawrate) x (4 covers) = 616 Classic pulls worth of 5s. Which is better than nothing..

    Slightly less to chuck out for a Latest, since it's only 84 pulls worth of 5s you are tossing out of the windows. But it's much much worse compared to what we had which was no wasted covers in the old system. 
  • Borstock
    Borstock Posts: 2,734 Chairperson of the Boards
    sinnerjfl said:
    tiomono said:
    But this is not just the 5 star tier. This is a net positive for the players as a whole.
    But why do they need to tinykitty over the veterans in the 5* tier in order to introduce a feature again?


    I'd imagine that the ratio of 5* players compared to all other players in the game tells them who to prioritize in that scenario.
  • Markot
    Markot Posts: 87 Match Maker
    tiomono said:
    This change is huge for developing roosters and will likely be met with excitement for over 50% of the player base. That is a good thing for the long term health of the game.
    But with 1:1 ratio for latest legends and 5:1 for all others it could "be met with excitement for over 90% of the player base". I agree this change is good quality improvement for many players. For some 5* players including me it is bad in comparison with CS swaps. Improving ratio just for those 3 latest 5* characters would make it good for me too and not harm any players at lower levels (who probably one day will be on 5* level too).
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    SnowcaTT said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    SnowcaTT said:
    Wow, just wow. I thought maybe, FINALLY the long needed "colorless covers" would be implemented.

    Instead, we get this. I'm not a big spender here, but what little I did spend I regret and will make sure I don't make that mistake again.

    Want to hear funny insult to injury? I have a 5/5/2 widow and a 2/2/0 widow. I just got daily drop Widow purple (SO HELPFUL!), asked for exchange, denied. Ask for one time exemption which -I've never gotten- denied.

    Their example of saved covers? Purple Widow. Now I'll have a 2nd widow at 3/2/0 and I guess it didn't go into "saved" in time so I'll have five covers to exchange! Oh wait, that's right....I can't even swap those five dead draws that I've pulled at a ridiculous 5:1 rate to finish Widow....who if I could finish would be a character I would never use because the imbalance of characters (along with never fixing, old or new) is incredible.

    Only mega-hoard cracking makes any sense now, and that is just awful game design.
    What are you even talking about?  You just outlined the most perfect optimal condition for how someone could benefit from this new system.  You could have banked all 5 of those Widow covers, then when you get the next one from resupply you champ her, and are sitting on a 455 Widow with ZERO waste.  Under the old system you have basically wasted all 5 of those covers.  This is unquestionably an improvement in this scenario yet you are here complaining about ever having spent money on this game.

    tinykitty this place is so toxic.

    "Could have". Note that I've pulled five extra Widows over the last two years, and this system is not yet in place.

    So when I bank five more over the next two years, I'll be set.
    You outlined a problem under the current system.  A new system was just introduced that solves your problem so that it can't happen again in the future......and you are complaining about it.
    And I'm not the only one, interesting isn't it. 5:1 wouldn't have been good when 5*'s were introduced, it isn't good now.

    "Yay, now I get to waste at 4/5ths of the rate I was wasting before!"

    This is not cause for celebration.

    The dev team just showed they can change the code to "stop bad RNG" with cascades. It -would not- have been any harder to change the code to count to 13 covers, regardless of colors (colorless covers), that players have been asking for since...I dunno...I started four+ years ago.

    It's been a problem for a long time in the game, and this is not a viable solution.This "solution" might be fine for 3*'s, and even 4*'s on occasion. The rarity, and value, of 5*'s is what the complaints here are about - make no mistake.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Markot said:
    tiomono said:
    This change is huge for developing roosters and will likely be met with excitement for over 50% of the player base. That is a good thing for the long term health of the game.
    But with 1:1 ratio for latest legends and 5:1 for all others it could "be met with excitement for over 90% of the player base". I agree this change is good quality improvement for many players. For some 5* players including me it is bad in comparison with CS swaps. Improving ratio just for those 3 latest 5* characters would make it good for me too and not harm any players at lower levels (who probably one day will be on 5* level too).
    If I'm not mistaken the dev's never liked the CS cover swap. They were being very generous allowing it to go on as long as they did. Now we have an in game solution that does not rely on the somewhat unreliable customer support. All players from 2*-5* have the same system in place to help with the 6th cover frustration.

    I am confident of if its not working how they want or expect, they will tweak it. They have been making several changes recently that benefit the game as a whole. That is a good thing.
  • PenniesForEveryone
    PenniesForEveryone Posts: 294 Mover and Shaker
    SnowcaTT said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    SnowcaTT said:
    PenniesForEveryone said:
    SnowcaTT said:
    Wow, just wow. I thought maybe, FINALLY the long needed "colorless covers" would be implemented.

    Instead, we get this. I'm not a big spender here, but what little I did spend I regret and will make sure I don't make that mistake again.

    Want to hear funny insult to injury? I have a 5/5/2 widow and a 2/2/0 widow. I just got daily drop Widow purple (SO HELPFUL!), asked for exchange, denied. Ask for one time exemption which -I've never gotten- denied.

    Their example of saved covers? Purple Widow. Now I'll have a 2nd widow at 3/2/0 and I guess it didn't go into "saved" in time so I'll have five covers to exchange! Oh wait, that's right....I can't even swap those five dead draws that I've pulled at a ridiculous 5:1 rate to finish Widow....who if I could finish would be a character I would never use because the imbalance of characters (along with never fixing, old or new) is incredible.

    Only mega-hoard cracking makes any sense now, and that is just awful game design.
    What are you even talking about?  You just outlined the most perfect optimal condition for how someone could benefit from this new system.  You could have banked all 5 of those Widow covers, then when you get the next one from resupply you champ her, and are sitting on a 455 Widow with ZERO waste.  Under the old system you have basically wasted all 5 of those covers.  This is unquestionably an improvement in this scenario yet you are here complaining about ever having spent money on this game.

    tinykitty this place is so toxic.

    "Could have". Note that I've pulled five extra Widows over the last two years, and this system is not yet in place.

    So when I bank five more over the next two years, I'll be set.
    You outlined a problem under the current system.  A new system was just introduced that solves your problem so that it can't happen again in the future......and you are complaining about it.
    And I'm not the only one, interesting isn't it. 5:1 wouldn't have been good when 5*'s were introduced, it isn't good now.

    "Yay, now I get to waste at 4/5ths of the rate I was wasting before!"

    This is not cause for celebration.

    The dev team just showed they can change the code to "stop bad RNG" with cascades. It -would not- have been any harder to change the code to count to 13 covers, regardless of colors (colorless covers), that players have been asking for since...I dunno...I started four+ years ago.

    It's been a problem for a long time in the game, and this is not a viable solution.This "solution" might be fine for 3*'s, and even 4*'s on occasion. The rarity, and value, of 5*'s is what the complaints here are about - make no mistake.
    You are missing the point.  The exchange rate doesn't matter - it's the act of banking the covers that would create 0 waste in your current situation - maybe you'd waste a single cover if your next resupply is unusable.  That's hands down better than the old system of you having a 3/2/0 dupe that collects dust.

    Whatever.  If I'm a dev looking at this I'd go for this 5:1 improvement for the 99% of the playerbase that benefits from banking 2s, 3s, 4s, and classic 5s over the 1% of the entitled vets that can no longer get their 1:1 on latest and are going to cry about any improvements anyway.
  • BobMurdoch
    BobMurdoch Posts: 13 Just Dropped In
    Nice to see a way of saving those rare covers for a future swap and no expiration.  Ditto to change ratio to 2*-5, 3*-4, 4*-2, 5*-1....  Now, the only major annoyance is having the game automatically recruit 1* unwanted covers into my roster.  (I almost always have a free slot as I farm 2*s until max champed and then sell them).  Just put a "sell for 100 iso" button and call it a day.  I hate when I get into a groove, clicking quick, and later find I accidentally have 2 Venom 1*s and try and sell them and only get 100 iso back (50 iso each)
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    As I theorized in the "Update to 4* pack odds" announcement thread, this change also incentivizes people to champ their 5*s. Before, hoarders could pull 13 covers, swap the dupes, and then hoard again until their fully covered 5 leaves latest tokens. They would have fully covered new 5* at 255. With this change, they have a 5 dupe buffer to get them to 13 covers. Lets say they get them covered with a few saved, those saved covers would sit there forever until they champed that 5.
    I doubt many would actually use the 5:1 swap very often. I think this change is mainly a no expiration tag you can put on 5 covers. After those 5 we probably will end up doing what we did with dupes before. Shell out for it outright, from H4H, roster another, or sell. At least this way when people ask if its worth 120 cp to finish a 4*, they would now have 5 champ levels to add to it right away, making it much more worth it than before.

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