Please nerf 5* Gambit

PenniesForEveryone

thedarkphoenix said:

kenshohmer2 said:

Please, stop looking for excuses to not nerf Gambit. He is broken that's a fact. Even when the meta was Panthos you could defeat them with nearly every other 5 stars and even with a 4* team on their boosted week. Gambit leaves you nearly no chance to use someone else other than Gambit.
Seriously, every turn he takes away 2 of the 3 AP you gained (if no cascade) and generates 4 for himself!

You say that now but it was all pitch forks at that time too just like it is currently with gambit now. Its like that with everything that's appears to good for the "vets" liking.

Your memory is a little fuzzy.  Many thought Thanos was broken on release, and he didn't get much play because he was a health pack suck.  THE whale of the time decreed Panther as the worst 5* in the game BY FAR at his release.  It wasn't until the masses got ahold of them and they were inserted into the cupcake/grilling meta that they became so prevalent.

thedarkphoenix

Vets aka *some* of the 5 star meta players.... dont like anything that allows others to challenge the hierarchy.

They'll throw around words like Op, boring and mandatory.

Then turn around and grind for hours with the animations off  with whatever team or characters that allow them to push the quickest and easiest and clear the fastest.

Being able to fight a team with any other team is what they want, but not if it means that can be done by adding one character that anyone with enough luck and patient can get right now. It messes up things when all your 5's can be challenged with the addition of one character.


No one is even remotely afraid of a team with gambit that doesn't include characters that where already good or decent in pvp. 

But a gambit does allow for that doc oct and hulk 5 star team to potentially beat up that black bolt/gambit/thanos team. Let them tell it though and they could push with any of there 5's and still be in the meta...somehow.

Now in order to stay in the meta they have to play gambit/x/x or get left behind.

PenniesForEveryone

There is a difference between a popular meta, and literally the only viable character.  Panthos was the former, Gambit the latter.

Bowgentle

I can't believe we're doing the third lap in this thread, with the same arguments, just because darkphoenix is making the same false statement about Panthos again.

thedarkphoenix

PenniesForEveryone said:

There is a difference between a popular meta, and literally the only viable character.  Panthos was the former, Gambit the latter.

What is the different if i want to be in the meta with panthos or gambit? Or any other characters that were meta.

If you were playing the meta  you ran what was best 95 percent of the time. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is the characters that allow it to be done. And in pvp its gambit....


The second thing is gambit allows players with weaker 5's to challenge teams that they couldn't without him. Which I just dont see as a bad thing in 5 land with the gap of a character being either useless or good at this tier in pvp.

For those meta playing top 5 players having to use gambit shouldn't be any different than having to use any other meta team or character. 

xKOBALTx

thedarkphoenix said:

The second thing is gambit allows players with weaker 5's to challenge teams that they couldn't without him. Which I just dont see as a bad thing in 5 land with the gap of a character being either useless or good at this tier in pvp. 

Speaking only for myself here, but I don't have an issue with this at all. I don't mind a new 5 challenging the old set or newer 5's coming with a dose of power creep. I have no problem with DD, Thor, or Hawkeye for instance. Those guys are good, can punch up, and can contend with the best of them (outside of, well, you know).

What I do have a problem with is that Gambit does this by way of a broken mechanic. That free AP mechanic (and now destruction) has been my problem with Gambit from the jump. Other characters have displayed the ability to punch up without the same issues.

And my concern going forward is that the only way they will truly be able to create new characters to contend with this mechanic is to either copy it, make an equally broken counter, or by insane power creep in a whole new tier of character. I'd rather they just fix the one issue instead of creating others.

mohio

thedarkphoenix said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

There is a difference between a popular meta, and literally the only viable character.  Panthos was the former, Gambit the latter.

For those meta playing top 5 players having to use gambit shouldn't be any different than having to use any other meta team or character. 

SHOULDN'T be any different, yes, but it is! And that's because Gambit fundamentally breaks the game with his black passive ability. No longer can you play carefully with weaker characters and still expect to get a win. I said this previously in the thread, but I have never been on par with the meta, always seeming to be catching up. Yet I could still compete in PvP with my OML/PHX or PHX/BP (didn't get thanos until fairly recently) because they are still decent 5* characters and the "meta" top teams (BB/BW or BP/Thanos) were still easily beatable, even if it took me longer than most. I hesitate to say exactly how well I would do with those teams in the current meta, but I'm pretty sure my win percentage would maybe be around 50-70% against any kind of Gambit team and probably lower against Gambolt. 

Again I'll reiterate - it isn't just that Gambit is currently the best character and used a lot. We've had several of those before. The problem is that he fundamentally changes the game with his +6 AP per turn baked in. If you don't have something equivalent, then you need some other way of providing a free advantage or else his will take over a match quickly.

Edit: To add to my last point - Thor and DD both are great recent characters that also come with these free advantages you would need to beat Gambit. Yet their advantages only come when they are below 50% health and Gambit has no such drawback whatsoever attached to his free ability. 

CT1888

Philly484 said:

Well seeing how the forum users are a very few number vs the mass majority of other players who are not vocal on the forums, then I would say that you would still have more vet players who  don't see the point in another toolkit update. Also, from what I gather it seems like the outcry for the nerf are those ppl who don't have the covers to use him, and instead of working through it with other 5*'s like some of us had before and after update they are going with the mentality of "well if i can't be viable the way I want to be since I can't use Gambit, then the logical solution is to nerf him so no one in top tier play will want to use him again."

He needs a counter, Yes! Redone toolkit again, not really. What if a nerf happens and people stop playing are the players going to pick on 5* Thor next? Heck why not Peggy, or the amount of dmg 4Cage can do when he is boosted. If it boils down to players wanting a nerf because they don't have the covers to use Gambit, then that is not reason enough to nerf him. 

There are a lot of people with champed Gambit and who are calling for a nerf.

As for the other characters you mention, there are ways round them - gather AP then nuke Thor, match damage Peggy then unleash powers, AP deny Cage and the big hits are meaningless. Gambit, you gotta be fast, but meanwhile he is faster.

Calnexin

Dartmaster01 said:

 Some of us actually enjoy the current meta with all it's ups and downs.

I'm not one of them.  PvP is unplayable.  I can't even get to 10 cp without hitting a wall of gambit, no matter what team I field, regardless of who's boosted or how I try to manipulate my MMR. My float point has dropped to ~ 200, with 90% of my retal options being... Gambit.

I'm, of course, entitled to throw my health packs at the wall of Gambit, but then Gambit takes away all the points.  I could shield hop from 300, but for what?  A 4* cover that won't help me beat Gambit, or make me less of a target for anyone (mostly Gambit, but others, as well).

I'm on board the nerf Gambit train.

Spudgutter

thedarkphoenix said:

PenniesForEveryone said:

There is a difference between a popular meta, and literally the only viable character.  Panthos was the former, Gambit the latter.

What is the different if i want to be in the meta with panthos or gambit? Or any other characters that were meta.

If you were playing the meta  you ran what was best 95 percent of the time. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is the characters that allow it to be done. And in pvp its gambit....


The second thing is gambit allows players with weaker 5's to challenge teams that they couldn't without him. Which I just dont see as a bad thing in 5 land with the gap of a character being either useless or good at this tier in pvp.

For those meta playing top 5 players having to use gambit shouldn't be any different than having to use any other meta team or character. 

That's actually a really good point.  Never thought of that.  Plus, you throw in newer people that dont have Bolt champed, and he comes down a peg.

If someone hoarded, or just happened to finally hit 5* land right when it was DD, Thor and Gambit, they were moving up a tier regardless.  I have all 3 of those champed, including Bolt, and i will sometimes switch in Thor at less than 50% health instead of gambit, depending on the team im up against.

To bring it back around to hoards, i wonder if the problem wouldnt be so bad if Doc ock had been better (or not released at all).  The number of people with over 300+ pulls when gambit dropped probably would be quite different.  Its like the grocket/gamora team in 4* land, I wonder how prevalent that team would be if they werent in the middle/height of vaulting.

That said, i dont care if he gets nerfed.  I did alright before him, I'm doing alright now, and i presumably will do alright when he shifts to classics.

GrimSkald

The biggest problem is that Gambit goes to Classics in a week.  After that point if you don't have at least 10 covers in your Gambit, you're pretty much done with this game. You'll never be competitive on the 5* level - period.  You need Gambit to compete at the 5* level, full stop.  If you don't have Gambit you'll spend two to three times as many health packs climbing in PVP, and get hit twice as often.

That is what is going to kill this game - someone entering the game now will have no path to be competitive with the older players.  None.  Not without a whole heck of a lot of luck with Classics.

Dartmaster01

There are a lot of people with champed Gambit and who are calling for a nerf.

From what I can see, there are far more with a champed Gambit that aren't.

John Wayne74

This is so laughable!!  Let’s take a pole.  How many with a champed Gambit don’t want him nerfed that have more than 4 other 5* champed??

i have 19 Champed 5*’s.  All but DD, Arch and GR.  I hate Gambit.  Yes I can play with him and anyone one in my roster.  But Gambit has to be there in pvp with whomever else I so choose.  Sure I can half health Thor and beat Gambit without using Gambit myself, but I will need three packs at the end of every single match that I do so.  How is that fun?  I have never been one for 500+ 5*’s.  I would rather have a variety that I can use over one set I have to use.  But that point is somehow eluding everyone who does not want him nerfed.  You all seem fine and content to just and only use him???

I posted long ago on this thread, asking how people would feel if Phoenix had this same AP gen, or BW had it, or any of the other 5*’s.  Good or bad ones.  It would be wretched.  But, Gambit is ok?  Why because those who have him and love him are either; happy with their super easy, super lazy play or he is their only real champ 5*.  Those who actually want to enjoy the game and who actually want to play the game on a more engaging platform or variety don’t like him in his current state.  So I ask which catagory are you in?  Mindless thoughtless game play that is basically auto pilot, or just your first real champ 5* so you have none that you are shelving while he’s at the forefront??

Also it isn’t just about 5*’s.  Once upon a pre-Gambit time I would farm pvp seeds with super small teams and work my up to stronger and stronger teams via the retals that I would get.  I would eventually be lead to using the boosted 4*’s before (if) I started using my 5*’s.  Good luck with that now. I had many events before Gambit that I would climb up to and past 1.2 without ever even using a 5*.  Now days you try and use that boosted Cage or that boosted Ice without yourself using Gambit.  Ha.. ha.. ha..  that’ll turn out well for ya I’m sure.  He’s not a Meta, he’s a broken mechanic.  If that isn’t obvious, you’re not looking with your eyes open.

LifeofAgony

Dartmaster01 said:

There are a lot of people with champed Gambit and who are calling for a nerf.

From what I can see, there are far more with a champed Gambit that aren't.

That’s because in pvp at 5* that’s all that exists.  You’re running gambit, or you’re not in the 5* tier.

And Like JW, I am calling for a nerf with a 460s Gambit among 20 other 5* champs.

ZeroKarma

Thankfully we now have Balance of Power to even things out. Surely, with full rosters available at level 550 for everything I will be able to match against some creative non-Gambit teams.

Nope. None.

Well at least we had Combined Arms.

j0nats

i have gambit champed + 6 other 5s champed and i dont want him nerfed.

1300+ days with this game so i can safely call myself a vet.

im still having fun with him.  and viola suddenly my champ surfer became relevant again when i champed gambit.

Bowgentle

j0nats said:

i have gambit champed + 6 other 5s champed and i dont want him nerfed.

1300+ days with this game so i can safely call myself a vet.

im still having fun with him.  and viola suddenly my champ surfer became relevant again when i champed gambit.

Your Surfer was relevant before Gambit - you just needed Bolt to run him with.
Now you need Gambit.

Yep, he's totally good for the game, no problem there,

kenshohmer2

I have a champ Gambit since he entered latest, so the "not champ Gambit" don't apply to me . I know it doesn't mean that the majority want him nerfed, but the majority of people I know in game ( most of them veterans and high end rosters) think that he is unhealthy to the game.
For the silent majority most of them don't even know this problem yet. I'm convinced that most of MPQ players are in 4star land or below, so they don't meet/use Gambit.
I get that enjoyment is a relative concept, but Gambit is an overpowered lazy character. There is absolutely no strategy in his gameplay, there is no challenge fighting with him and for me that means no fun. Some enjoy brainless grinding and tapping in PVE so I guess some enjoy playing on autoplay with gambit.
Anywho, I see Gambit as a playable Maggia Muscle and we know how fun they are at high level.

Jonny1Punch

Gambit - Lazy OP autopilot pvp’er aka ”mpq for dummies”
 
the only character in the game you can play while blindfolded and just randomly swipe the screen and mash powers with a 97.3% success rate..... alternatively just give your phone to an infant and you’ll beat most matches.

but yes..... he is healthy for the game and doesn’t devalue everything we’ve seen and accomplished over the last 4 years * eye roll *

Philly484

CT1888 said:

There are a lot of people with champed Gambit and who are calling for a nerf.

As for the other characters you mention, there are ways round them - gather AP then nuke Thor, match damage Peggy then unleash powers, AP deny Cage and the big hits are meaningless. Gambit, you gotta be fast, but meanwhile he is faster.

The same can be said for all characters. Tech you can deny gambit ap as well. My points are the few don't speak for the whole, and the fact that players who choose to use gambit over their others 5*'s is their own choice. If wan't to use 5*DD and 5*Thor I am still going to be hit as much if I used Gambit with any other character. I haven't seen a decrease in the number of hit's I take with or not with Gambit. As a vet who has been playing for over 3 years I've never had a problem with the current Meta, because it is what it is. If a change is made then the Meta will transition back to ppl using DD, Thor, Thanos, Panther, or a combination of old Meta and still cause a stagnation of ppl seeing the same 5* teams over and over. An easier solution is to create a counter to his abilities, just as they have done with other characters abilities. Sadly AA was a poor attempt at that since Gambits Prpl can overwrite AA Blk countdown tiles. Was a step in right direction, but didn't directly make AA a counter to Gambit.