End of WIN Season Follow up, how did you enjoy the WIN system?

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Comments

  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
    Indifferent to the win based system and played the same or less
    Magic said:
    The rockett said:
    Very disappointed. Per the season release thread there will be no chances for the PVP Win system next season.  That means you all LOVED the 40
    wins for PVP, 74 wins for SIM and the removal of the CPs from progression.  
    I don't think the word disappointed even covers that they seem that they don't care about any feed back that they get. None. This was the same test system they did 2 times.   Didn't tweak it.  Now a full season.  Didn't tweak it.  They must think it is perfect the way it is.  I just wish they would just some out and say something about it.  Well....I guess they did.  
    Have you considered that their internal figures suggest it's a perfect solution? Players are spending more time in the game, maybe Health pack sales went up (but most likely shields went down). Maybe more players got the 4* cover than before? Maybe in total more players got the CP (top10 in scl 5-8 - there is a lot of brackets to fill in). 

    I don't like the number of wins needed and I didn't hit it once (ok I did for SIM but not doing it again for the next one). I did get 1 top10 finish so my CP was higher that in previous seasons (never got to 1200 before) but my 4* covers gain took a big hit (previously I would go to 900 on 5+ events per season). My overall experience is on the bad side of things. I like the concept but not the implementation. 

    I am just suggesting that the overall figures form thousands of players (rather than the most dedicated hundreds here on the forum) could give them the confirmation they needed to run with this system.
    Get out of here with your logic (sarcasm).  Case in point the number of people that hate the system and yet still had hundreds of wins for the season, all the while railing against it.  Just like with the saying "vote with your wallet," if you dont like a win based system, the only way meaningfull way of protesting is to not compete.  Otherwise, all you are doing is affirming their changes.  It doesn't matter how many threads or polls are created, how many of a small portion of the population decry the changes, etc.  They are going to do what they have always done: crunch the data and go from there.  
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Indifferent to the win based system and played the same or less
    AlexxKats said:
    As probably others did post earlier (i hope, i didn't check or read back), the choices above don't reflect my reply, or my feelings for this game.

    Long story short: I don't mind win based scenario for pvp, as it will help lower rosters reach the end game faster, which will lessen the terrible MMR into playable or enjoyable and offer us new players to compete against/with. But the current required number of wins is just stupidly high, especially for all those that could reach progress before this season's change.

    I ended up making 16~20 matches on pvps i didn't have time to play (which would amount to 1600 to 2400 scores), and i ended up playing over 70 matches on select pvps, but for entirely different reasons. If it was an average season pre change, i'd probably play a bit more, but all that i noticed this season was many more people not shielding and not engaging into pvp, just dragging themselves through x wins.

    On average i would hit 1200 points (old max progression) at 14 or so fights (i almost never have seed teams when i join). As for simulator, i reached 2000 points (old max progression) in less than 30 fights, reached 2800 points at fight number 45, then hit "seals" and retals of other people slogging through simulator to help them by offering a retal node. Last season, i actually had forgot to play simulator untill last 3 hours or so, so i joined and climbed from 0 to 2040something in less than 2 hours during my morning coffee and shielded to go for work.

    If i had to sum up my experience? I earned about 90 less cp than i would have any other season pre change, with a score similar to my previous t25 season ends [edit: ~25000 points], instead this time i finished 6th, all the while playing less than i used to.
    [edit: if you consider that good, then remember that the better placement is due to people quitting or going casual or stopping at 16 wins and calling it a day, which is bad for the game]
    Just to address your edit, i have often wondered on here if that isn't part of the plan.  

    If more high end pvp players go casual and stop at 16 wins, is that really bad?  It frees up the top slots for the more casual players, theoretically balancing out the rosters.  Taking myself as an example, i want from getting 900 every pvp, to only getting 40 wins during the nightcrawler release.  But at the same time, i got top 10 in 5 or so events, something i had *never* done before.  And i dont even have gambit, so it wasnt like i was crushing with the new boosted character either.  

    Anecdotal, sure, but something to think about
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Indifferent to the win based system and played the same or less
    The rockett said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Magic said:
    The rockett said:
    Very disappointed. Per the season release thread there will be no chances for the PVP Win system next season.  That means you all LOVED the 40
    wins for PVP, 74 wins for SIM and the removal of the CPs from progression.  
    I don't think the word disappointed even covers that they seem that they don't care about any feed back that they get. None. This was the same test system they did 2 times.   Didn't tweak it.  Now a full season.  Didn't tweak it.  They must think it is perfect the way it is.  I just wish they would just some out and say something about it.  Well....I guess they did.  
    Have you considered that their internal figures suggest it's a perfect solution? Players are spending more time in the game, maybe Health pack sales went up (but most likely shields went down). Maybe more players got the 4* cover than before? Maybe in total more players got the CP (top10 in scl 5-8 - there is a lot of brackets to fill in). 

    I don't like the number of wins needed and I didn't hit it once (ok I did for SIM but not doing it again for the next one). I did get 1 top10 finish so my CP was higher that in previous seasons (never got to 1200 before) but my 4* covers gain took a big hit (previously I would go to 900 on 5+ events per season). My overall experience is on the bad side of things. I like the concept but not the implementation. 

    I am just suggesting that the overall figures form thousands of players (rather than the most dedicated hundreds here on the forum) could give them the confirmation they needed to run with this system.
    Get out of here with your logic (sarcasm).  Case in point the number of people that hate the system and yet still had hundreds of wins for the season, all the while railing against it.  Just like with the saying "vote with your wallet," if you dont like a win based system, the only way meaningfully way of protesting is to not compete.  Otherwise, all you are doing is affirming their changes.  It doesn't matter how many threads or polls are created, how many of a small portion of the population decry the changes, etc.  They are going to do what they have always done: crunch the data and go from there.  
    Most of us are with ally's of friends that play at a high level.  That's why I am still playing. For me, this system didn't change anything for me as I have said and been vocal about.  It's about the players that don't want to come here and will just hold down the little MPQ icon until it does its farewell dance and then poof. It's gone. 
    I have said the same thing as well, hasnt really impacted me too negatively. But i also haven't created 10 threads to profess this. I am just trying to speak for the presumed silent majority who play this game and hated pvp as it was, but never enough to log into the forum, but enough to probably voice their concern when given a survey on the matter.
  • Bertibrecht
    Bertibrecht Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
    I Quit the game tottally due to the win based system
    I did not regret quiting, 2 1/2 hours daily saved.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    Spudgutter said:
    The rockett said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Magic said:
    The rockett said:
    Very disappointed. Per the season release thread there will be no chances for the PVP Win system next season.  That means you all LOVED the 40
    wins for PVP, 74 wins for SIM and the removal of the CPs from progression.  
    I don't think the word disappointed even covers that they seem that they don't care about any feed back that they get. None. This was the same test system they did 2 times.   Didn't tweak it.  Now a full season.  Didn't tweak it.  They must think it is perfect the way it is.  I just wish they would just some out and say something about it.  Well....I guess they did.  
    Have you considered that their internal figures suggest it's a perfect solution? Players are spending more time in the game, maybe Health pack sales went up (but most likely shields went down). Maybe more players got the 4* cover than before? Maybe in total more players got the CP (top10 in scl 5-8 - there is a lot of brackets to fill in). 

    I don't like the number of wins needed and I didn't hit it once (ok I did for SIM but not doing it again for the next one). I did get 1 top10 finish so my CP was higher that in previous seasons (never got to 1200 before) but my 4* covers gain took a big hit (previously I would go to 900 on 5+ events per season). My overall experience is on the bad side of things. I like the concept but not the implementation. 

    I am just suggesting that the overall figures form thousands of players (rather than the most dedicated hundreds here on the forum) could give them the confirmation they needed to run with this system.
    Get out of here with your logic (sarcasm).  Case in point the number of people that hate the system and yet still had hundreds of wins for the season, all the while railing against it.  Just like with the saying "vote with your wallet," if you dont like a win based system, the only way meaningfully way of protesting is to not compete.  Otherwise, all you are doing is affirming their changes.  It doesn't matter how many threads or polls are created, how many of a small portion of the population decry the changes, etc.  They are going to do what they have always done: crunch the data and go from there.  
    Most of us are with ally's of friends that play at a high level.  That's why I am still playing. For me, this system didn't change anything for me as I have said and been vocal about.  It's about the players that don't want to come here and will just hold down the little MPQ icon until it does its farewell dance and then poof. It's gone. 
    I have said the same thing as well, hasnt really impacted me too negatively. But i also haven't created 10 threads to profess this. I am just trying to speak for the presumed silent majority who play this game and hated pvp as it was, but never enough to log into the forum, but enough to probably voice their concern when given a survey on the matter.
    10 threads?   2 polls that have some of the most votes of any poll that have been on the forums.  Why do you think that is?  
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
    Indifferent to the win based system and played the same or less
    The rockett said:
    Spudgutter said:
    The rockett said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Magic said:
    The rockett said:
    Very disappointed. Per the season release thread there will be no chances for the PVP Win system next season.  That means you all LOVED the 40
    wins for PVP, 74 wins for SIM and the removal of the CPs from progression.  
    I don't think the word disappointed even covers that they seem that they don't care about any feed back that they get. None. This was the same test system they did 2 times.   Didn't tweak it.  Now a full season.  Didn't tweak it.  They must think it is perfect the way it is.  I just wish they would just some out and say something about it.  Well....I guess they did.  
    Have you considered that their internal figures suggest it's a perfect solution? Players are spending more time in the game, maybe Health pack sales went up (but most likely shields went down). Maybe more players got the 4* cover than before? Maybe in total more players got the CP (top10 in scl 5-8 - there is a lot of brackets to fill in). 

    I don't like the number of wins needed and I didn't hit it once (ok I did for SIM but not doing it again for the next one). I did get 1 top10 finish so my CP was higher that in previous seasons (never got to 1200 before) but my 4* covers gain took a big hit (previously I would go to 900 on 5+ events per season). My overall experience is on the bad side of things. I like the concept but not the implementation. 

    I am just suggesting that the overall figures form thousands of players (rather than the most dedicated hundreds here on the forum) could give them the confirmation they needed to run with this system.
    Get out of here with your logic (sarcasm).  Case in point the number of people that hate the system and yet still had hundreds of wins for the season, all the while railing against it.  Just like with the saying "vote with your wallet," if you dont like a win based system, the only way meaningfully way of protesting is to not compete.  Otherwise, all you are doing is affirming their changes.  It doesn't matter how many threads or polls are created, how many of a small portion of the population decry the changes, etc.  They are going to do what they have always done: crunch the data and go from there.  
    Most of us are with ally's of friends that play at a high level.  That's why I am still playing. For me, this system didn't change anything for me as I have said and been vocal about.  It's about the players that don't want to come here and will just hold down the little MPQ icon until it does its farewell dance and then poof. It's gone. 
    I have said the same thing as well, hasnt really impacted me too negatively. But i also haven't created 10 threads to profess this. I am just trying to speak for the presumed silent majority who play this game and hated pvp as it was, but never enough to log into the forum, but enough to probably voice their concern when given a survey on the matter.
    10 threads?   2 polls that have some of the most votes of any poll that have been on the forums.  Why do you think that is?  
    Judging some of the comments in this whole thread, i thought hyperbole was the norm, so i was trying to fit in.

    Secondly, were there no polls during true healing?  Or all of the numerous unpopular nerfs over the years?  You know this for a fact, or am i assuming you are being just as hyperbolic?

    I'm not saying the wins based system is perfect, or even good.  I'm just saying that trashing it or bringing it up every chance you get, while making you feel better, probably wont get it changed any quicker.  Just ask the guy who kept bringing up the 3* stealth health nerf when they rolled out champing.  I forget the specifics of that one, but every chance he got to reply to a red name with his data, he would. And nothing ever changed. And then he stopped posting.  
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    I Quit PVP due to the win based system
    @Spudgutter

    I don't really understand why you assume the silent majority hated PvP as it was.  Like many others I'm on day 1100+ and have been playing PvP the whole time and until very recently mostly enjoyed it.

    When I was in 2* land I accepted that I couldn't get much past 300 assuming that one day when I had a 3* roster I could maybe make 725, then 900 once I progressed to the 4* tier and so on.  That gave me a reason to play and keep improving my roster and eventually get better and better rewards.  It also added that buzz factor when I was close to whatever score/reward I was aiming for.

    As mentioned several times in this thread, everything is now just a participation reward for those prepared to grind enough and I personally can't see the motivation to keep improving your roster when ultimately, apart from having more characters to play with, it doesn't benefit your progression in the game (by which I mean for some the PvP experience can now get a lot worse and time consuming the higher tier you play at).
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
    Indifferent to the win based system and played the same or less
    CharlieCroker said:
    @Spudgutter

    I don't really understand why you assume the silent majority hated PvP as it was.  Like many others I'm on day 1100+ and have been playing PvP the whole time and until very recently mostly enjoyed it.

    When I was in 2* land I accepted that I couldn't get much past 300 assuming that one day when I had a 3* roster I could maybe make 725, then 900 once I progressed to the 4* tier and so on.  That gave me a reason to play and keep improving my roster and eventually get better and better rewards.  It also added that buzz factor when I was close to whatever score/reward I was aiming for.

    As mentioned several times in this thread, everything is now just a participation reward for those prepared to grind enough and I personally can't see the motivation to keep improving your roster when ultimately, apart from having more characters to play with, it doesn't benefit your progression in the game (by which I mean for some the PvP experience can now get a lot worse and time consuming the higher tier you play at).
    My assumption is based on numbers. Pvp brackets are 500 people, correct? So for every top 10% of EVERY bracket, there are 450 people who didnt place all that well. You honestly think they wouldnt like a better path to catch up?

    Plus, you are on day 1100+, congrats on starting in the first year.  Now answer honestly, how likely would you be to play for 3 years if you started 100 days ago?  Knowing that no matter what, you will never catch up to those that started before you.  This makes it just a little bit easier, not a lot, just a little.  All the while only upsetting those top 10%, some of whom still crank out top rewards and 40 wins, even though they dont like the system.

    I agree that the continued broken system where improving your roster can be a detriment.  But that isnt what we are talking about. 

    I disagree with the participation reward part.  We all know plenty of people who only played by sniping pve and pvp brackets.  Is it fair they can have better rosters by not playing at all?

    I've played the game for 1400+ days, and there have been good decisions and bad decisions along the way, both of which are ENTIRELY subjective viewpoints.  Acting like this is the end of the game as we know it, and complaining about it at every turn isn't going to change anything.  

    Edit:  and i could be 100% wrong.  I have no way of knowing this, but then again, no one else does either.  We are all arguing over opinions.  At least i am honest enough with myself to admit it.  
  • MoTiV
    MoTiV Posts: 5 Just Dropped In
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    I'm on day 421 with 12 4* champs and 5 more at 13 covers.

    I love the new system! In the old system I was lucky if I got 10 CP and that only happened a couple times due to having the right 4*s boosted. This time around I placed top 50 in every event I actually tried and got 40 wins pretty easily each time. It was a bit of a grind for sure but knowing I can get actually get progressions rewards now made me play more. I liked that I didn't really need a timed out strategy to compete. I played throughout the day whenever my team got beat down enough so I could climb back up. I don't have gamrocket or gambat so I skipped a lot of teams. My guess is that it's a lot easier with them. Also, I think I finished in the 160s for the season.
  • CharlieCroker
    CharlieCroker Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    I Quit PVP due to the win based system
    @Spudgutter

    Apologies for tagging you again but I don't like filling space with page long quotes :-)

    1.  The developing rosters playing 40 matches will get a 4* cover, but are unlikely to get the two/three 3* covers in placement which will build up their roster a lot more efficiently.
    2.  I would've deleted the game, but more because of the amazing time suck than anything else.  Early on I knew (and accepted) I'd never catch up with the big spenders and this remains the case to this day.  It's highly unlikely I'll ever get a 5* to the 480/490 level whereas others (both legitimately and via exploits) have several.
    3.  People sniping PVE in particular are depriving themselves of ISO but getting good placement.  Not for me, but I won't judge them for that.  Sniping PvP brackets isn't something new, I pursued that strategy when I was in 3* land myself.
    4.  Most important point - for some people this IS the end of the game, or at least PvP.

    To repeat what you said, the above is just my opinion, but all we (the people against the new system) can hope is that the developers do read these threads and make adjustments.  If not, I've had plenty of entertainment over the years from the game, from chatting to people on Line and visiting this forum.


  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/68880/update-to-versus-tournament-progression-rewards-11-15-17#latest

    I guess the feedback was enough to take a 2nd look at this.  
  • zahria
    zahria Posts: 14 Just Dropped In
    No i disliked the win based system but played more
    Well done @The rockett thanks for starting this should we as a group could have our voices heard!
  • turbomoose
    turbomoose Posts: 806 Critical Contributor
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    I liked it but ended up playing far more hours than I should have to get all the rewards 

    doesnt really matter now as they have cancelled it 

    im going to experiment on a few events this season and go for 40 wins to see where I end up 

    im disappointed they have cancelled it completely but glad in a way as I wasn’t really looking forward to another season of 40 wins per event 

    i hope they are able to find some middle ground that makes all game players happy 
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    My answer is "I like the win based system, played about the same but want it to change"

    I like the idea of it, but the execution is psychologically negative. Spend 5 minutes in a fight to see a counter go up by...1. Woo.
    Need to complete way more matches to win comparable prizes. Woo. I'm sure in more than one event I went past 900 points twice in order to get the 40 wins necessary.

    Plus I had to counter-intuitively *lose* a bunch of fights in order to lower my score enough to have people worth fighting who weren't 5* rosters.
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    Should have kept wins but lowered the number of wins needed per event. 
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,580 Chairperson of the Boards
    Indifferent to the win based system and played the same or less
    The win system had some clear positives over the old system, but as usual they erred on the far too grindy side of things when it came to setting the progression rewards and needlessly removed cp from progression too.

    Overall, I wasn't that impacted as I am starting to more towards 5* and thus my mmr was already wrecked regardless for pvp.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,299 Chairperson of the Boards
    No i disliked the win based system but played more
    Well I didn't really care for the new system even though I am just a casual PvP player (I mainly play PvE).  I actually played more just to try out the new system so that is one reason I actually played more this season.  In addition, I did grind out 40 wins a few times if I really needed the 4* cover being offered.  The reason I didn't like it though is that normally I always shot for the 10CP progression and then quit.  This time around it took me 16 wins to get there and in the old system I could do it in quite a few less, especially if I joined late and hit the bigger numbers.  I would say that my dislike wasn't a hatred like some because I could see myself still going for the 10 CP in the new system and rarely striving for 40 if that 4* was the 13th cover or something but for me, the old system would generally just save me time in getting the 10 CP, which is my normal PvP goal. 
  • Dotproduct
    Dotproduct Posts: 217 Tile Toppler
    edited November 2017
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    Well it looks like the forum got what it wanted and it will revert to the old system. At least I know I can go back to forgetting about PvP and play less now.

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