End of WIN Season Follow up, how did you enjoy the WIN system?

12346

Comments

  • johnnycannon
    johnnycannon Posts: 2 Just Dropped In
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    On day 1313 and these changes finally inspired me to add my voice. The old system could be frustrating, sure, but it was competitive and you could hunt down bigger scores at bigger risk. Now it is a purely by the numbers slog and I've gone from occasionally targeting a 4* and mostly targeting 575 for cp to rarely bothering past my alliance 300 min. And looking to move on to no mins because even that's just a chore now (in fact most of our PVP alliances have finally given up the ghost and moved on to old friends). Why can't both systems run in parallel? You hit the points, great. You don't, you grind out as many wins as you need. Everyone's a winner?
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
    Yes I liked the win based system and played the same or less
    I liked the win-based system (the system, not the amount of wins needed) but i abandoned PvP completely, including SHIELD.
    Truth is, i enjoy the game more than before, since PvE is not that frustrating - i am not fighting maxed 5* there (or powered 4*s), i am getting bonus rewards and after 90 minutes i am done with PvE (i needed 90 mins for 10CPs in PvP before the win-based system, after it i need 2 hours).

    I cant say that win-based system is the reason why i abandoned PvP - i simply dont have 4 hours every day (well, i have, but this chore is no fun to me) to do everything so i had to pick one and PvE wins, because... no frustration as mentioned above.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    Very disappointed. Per the season release thread there will be no chances for the PVP Win system next season.  That means you all LOVED the 40
    wins for PVP, 74 wins for SIM and the removal of the CPs from progression.  
    I don't think the word disappointed even covers that they seem that they don't care about any feed back that they get. None. This was the same test system they did 2 times.   Didn't tweak it.  Now a full season.  Didn't tweak it.  They must think it is perfect the way it is.  I just wish they would just some out and say something about it.  Well....I guess they did.  
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    No i disliked the win based system but played more
    The rockett said:
    Very disappointed. Per the season release thread there will be no chances for the PVP Win system next season.  That means you all LOVED the 40
    wins for PVP, 74 wins for SIM and the removal of the CPs from progression.  
    I don't think the word disappointed even covers that they seem that they don't care about any feed back that they get. None. This was the same test system they did 2 times.   Didn't tweak it.  Now a full season.  Didn't tweak it.  They must think it is perfect the way it is.  I just wish they would just some out and say something about it.  Well....I guess they did.  
    Have you considered that their internal figures suggest it's a perfect solution? Players are spending more time in the game, maybe Health pack sales went up (but most likely shields went down). Maybe more players got the 4* cover than before? Maybe in total more players got the CP (top10 in scl 5-8 - there is a lot of brackets to fill in). 

    I don't like the number of wins needed and I didn't hit it once (ok I did for SIM but not doing it again for the next one). I did get 1 top10 finish so my CP was higher that in previous seasons (never got to 1200 before) but my 4* covers gain took a big hit (previously I would go to 900 on 5+ events per season). My overall experience is on the bad side of things. I like the concept but not the implementation. 

    I am just suggesting that the overall figures form thousands of players (rather than the most dedicated hundreds here on the forum) could give them the confirmation they needed to run with this system.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Tile Toppler
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    241 negative votes.  No doubt passionate votes, but in the grand scheme I suspect a drop in the ocean.

    I think win based PVP is here to stay, best we can hope for is some refinement.

    But, as you say, the silent majority could well be speaking volumes that the new system is great.


  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    Magic said:
    The rockett said:
    Very disappointed. Per the season release thread there will be no chances for the PVP Win system next season.  That means you all LOVED the 40
    wins for PVP, 74 wins for SIM and the removal of the CPs from progression.  
    I don't think the word disappointed even covers that they seem that they don't care about any feed back that they get. None. This was the same test system they did 2 times.   Didn't tweak it.  Now a full season.  Didn't tweak it.  They must think it is perfect the way it is.  I just wish they would just some out and say something about it.  Well....I guess they did.  
    Have you considered that their internal figures suggest it's a perfect solution? Players are spending more time in the game, maybe Health pack sales went up (but most likely shields went down). Maybe more players got the 4* cover than before? Maybe in total more players got the CP (top10 in scl 5-8 - there is a lot of brackets to fill in). 

    I don't like the number of wins needed and I didn't hit it once (ok I did for SIM but not doing it again for the next one). I did get 1 top10 finish so my CP was higher that in previous seasons (never got to 1200 before) but my 4* covers gain took a big hit (previously I would go to 900 on 5+ events per season). My overall experience is on the bad side of things. I like the concept but not the implementation. 

    I am just suggesting that the overall figures form thousands of players (rather than the most dedicated hundreds here on the forum) could give them the confirmation they needed to run with this system.
    I am not disagreeing with that at all.  I am more than aware how big MPQ is.  Since this was such a hot topic, I wish they would give us some feedback bedsides no update. That's the frustrating part. 
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    Let me be clear, i never have said the Win based system couldn't work. Removing of CPs from prog to placement was my biggest, and others, issue. My message has been the same for the past month. 74 wins in SIM is insane but can be done. 
  • Magic
    Magic Posts: 1,199 Chairperson of the Boards
    No i disliked the win based system but played more
    Yes. The forum is vocal but the voice could be silenced with some in-depth analysis by somebody in Red (be it @Brigby or somebody else). There is plenty of reasonable folk around here - so just reason with us rather than drop the Bomb and go on holiday. 
  • meekersX
    meekersX Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    I Quit PVP due to the win based system
    sh81 said:
    241 negative votes.  No doubt passionate votes, but in the grand scheme I suspect a drop in the ocean.

    I think win based PVP is here to stay, best we can hope for is some refinement.

    But, as you say, the silent majority could well be speaking volumes that the new system is great.


    It seems odd to assume that the majority thinks this system is great. I suspect the majority of people are not consistently willing to invest the amount of time it takes to earn 40 wins, apart from whatever rewards are offered. People that post here are not representative of the typical player, on either side of the debate. I think it is clear though that the change was a tinykitty to the most dedicated players of the game. Even if it doesn't adversely affect you, why play a game made by a company that treats their players like that?
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Tile Toppler
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    My post is in reply to @magic . Agreeing with the point that the developers will see the figures from the season and its entirely possible they suggest an overwhelming success. That was all, really. No assumption at all.
  • Pinko_McFly
    Pinko_McFly Posts: 282 Mover and Shaker
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    The numbers may also show an overwhelming success because they are bad at interpreting statistics.
    Case in point, their 40 wins calculation. It's safe to assume this number was based of total matches per person, not total matches needed to get the 4* cover.
  • ramoramo86
    ramoramo86 Posts: 89 Match Maker
    you title thread should be "how much did you hate the win system?"
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    Let's say we give them the benefit of the doubt, and understand that it will take them some time to review the data from this season before they make any changes. Well then they also have to consider that: 

    1. People broke the bank for Gambit. He was a highly requested character, and they delivered by making 'Stacked Deck' a Flames of Faltine level power in terms of instantly changing the game. "New hotness" doesn't do him justice, he is an absolute must-have. Naturally realizing how awesome he is after covering him, people wanted to play with their new toy in PVP. 
    2. Not sure how much of the playing community hoards, but I'd imagine there was also a sizable crowd of folks who elected break their hoard after the XP change, in order to maximize XP gain from opening tokens. Sure quite a few more Gambits came out of this, as well as excitement to try out other new toys. 
    3. With this being the first season that the win-based system went live, they had to know that there would be a massive spike in participation. Not just from less-experienced PVP players, but from vets as well that wanted to get a feel of what it's like. We'll never get insight into this of course, but it would be interesting to know if the nuances of how these numbers will be used. Is it about total accounts that played for the season? Tracking participation on event-by-event basis over the course of the season? How many people went for the 40 wins on average per event? How much health packs and HP were bought? Unfortunately we'll never know this, so whenever they do announce a change to this system (if it's coming), we'll just have to take whatever their actual reason is with a grain of salt. 

    In either case, their data is skewed and I'm not comfortable at the thought of too many decisions being made based on it. If anything, it would just be the usage rate of Gambattery. 
  • ramoramo86
    ramoramo86 Posts: 89 Match Maker
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    Let's say we give them the benefit of the doubt, and understand that it will take them some time to review the data from this season before they make any changes.

    I stopped reading after that, either you are too nice and forgiving of a person or don't know the devs and think they actually care about our opinions. Not one PVP change i can think of since i started playing (708 days ago) has in anyway befitted the players, all changes only force you to spend $$$. I understand at the edn of the day this is a business but trying to force your customers to spend via these sleazy means is just disgusting. I stopped spending after the OML nerf (only VIP now). 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited November 2017
    I Quit PVP due to the win based system
    Definitely my lowest engagement level for pvp in years.  Tried a few events and played SSim for the rogue cover.  Finished the season with ~114 wins.  Just hated it.  Have now basically quit pvp (will occasionaly join with 10 mins left and put in a match or two for some almost-free placement rewards).  

    The game is fun. But it's not THAT fun.  This system remains a terrible implementation of a mediocre solution to some of pvp's problems. 
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    ramoramo86 said:
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    Let's say we give them the benefit of the doubt, and understand that it will take them some time to review the data from this season before they make any changes.

    I stopped reading after that, either you are too nice and forgiving of a person or don't know the devs and think they actually care about our opinions. Not one PVP change i can think of since i started playing (708 days ago) has in anyway befitted the players, all changes only force you to spend $$$. I understand at the edn of the day this is a business but trying to force your customers to spend via these sleazy means is just disgusting. I stopped spending after the OML nerf (only VIP now). 
    I agree that they don't understand PVP all that well and don't always make the best decisions around it, but you're being a little extreme. You've only got about 40 days on me and I recall: 

    • 4-star cover being at 1000, not 900
    • CP only being at the end of progression (25 at full prog, rather 10 along the way and 15 at the end)
    • No clearance levels, so no separation of the less developed rosters from the more developed ones

    Perhaps you were just using hyperbole, but it's not like they've ALWAYS missed the mark. A decision that benefits the players and a decision that provides incentive for more spending aren't mutually exclusive. It's also not impossible for them to make a decision that provides much more benefit for the player than it does for them. 
  • BearVenger
    BearVenger Posts: 453 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2017
    No i disliked the win based system but played more
    At the cusp of the new season, let me state that I found this past season draining and unsustainable.

    I know that I can quit at any time, but the win progression tiers make me feel that d3 considers it a realistic bar: 40 even-strength or tougher wins in 2.5 days (and 74 SHIELD wins in a season) SHOULD be achievable by the average 4* player to win a 4* cover. I had to play much, much more to win less than I had won in any season previous, and I caught myself sacrificing work focus, sleep, fun, socializing, and home responsibilities to do what I felt like was "keeping pace" for a stupid phone game. **And, stubbornly, I did notch 40 wins in every event.**

    There were two lights at the end of the tunnel: MMR seemed to break open on the last two events, so I was able to see easier (and more varied) opponents. I don't know if something was dialed back or if it were a consequence of me starting at Zero Hour of the events. The other was that I ended up with a nice ISO surplus from all my fights.

    But mixing this with the heavier PvE requirements, standalone Story events at the start of the season, Lightning Rounds, and the Sakaar Arena, I felt like d3 was putting more on our plates than could reasonably be done.

    Please dial back the win requirements. This format feels oppressive, not flexible.
  • Swingmonalisa
    Swingmonalisa Posts: 25 Just Dropped In
    edited November 2017
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    I hated the new system and played about as much or a little less than normal. I used to be a top scorer on one of the top alliances, but the PVP game has greatly diminished my enjoyment of the game, so I changed shards to slice 5 to get CP again. Moving the CP out of progression was a dumb move for veterans, but a nice move for newer players. It makes it really difficult to get placement in cl6+ because of all the veteran players in those clearance levels, so many vets just go to lower clearance levels and dominate newer players easily, earning the CP in the process. The 40 wins mark is way too much (and 74 is way too much for sim as well - no one in their right mind would play 74 27-point matches in the old system, so it makes it a burdensome slog). 

    My suggestion that would be fair for both types of players is this:

    Have CL6 and above like it used to be with CP in progression. That way top players fight against each other for placement rewards (which are better and useful for veterans moreso than newer players), while still allowing veteran players to obtain CP to continue to grow their rosters

    Have CL5 and below have CP in placement. This gives newer players an ability to earn CP and grow their roster without enticing veteran players to come down to lower clearance levels for worse progression rewards, but all-but-guaranteed CP. I know if they switched it to this format, I'd be less inclined to do so since I'd be able to get CP from progression in the higher clearance levels. 

    Now if D3 could just destroy the *nope* who spam PVE, I'd be happier as well (you know who you are and are a disgrace ;-)).

    **Removed name calling - Ducky
  • tanis3303
    tanis3303 Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    I Quit PVP due to the win based system
    I didn't touch a single PvP event this season, nor the simulator, and I didn't miss it one bit. At the end of the day, I'd say I gave up 100 CP, 10 each Elite and Event tokens, a handful of Iso and HP and whatever comes out of Simulator, since had I played I would have been in the 16 wins and done crowd. Worth it.

    Pretty much indifferent to any changes they make to this system if they make any at all, cutting my time with this game in half has been a very liberating experience. I didn't realize just how much I disliked the PvP aspect of the game until I cut it out completely.

Categories