End of WIN Season Follow up, how did you enjoy the WIN system?

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  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    put CP back in progression and do hybrid win or points progression, problem solved

  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    I'm basically quitting PvP. Will do the 16 matches for CP that's it. Too much of an unfun slog. 

    This is the same as what made me quit pve when scaling got to be too much.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    Rokachu said:
    First time in years i didnt complete the season rewards. I tried for an event or 2 but i burned out fast. I ended up letting my VIP expire. 
    Same! First time ever for me not getting top progression reward in sim. Got to like around 55 wins and 2100 points and said the opposite of thanks to D3 and quit.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    I mostly just went 16 wins and out. 2 events I hit 40 wins. Didn't get 74 in sim, as I didn't need the Rogue cover. Still finished with 363 wins and almost 11k points. Don't like this system, first season I didn't get all the 4* covers in at least half a year.
  • Kahmon
    Kahmon Posts: 625 Critical Contributor
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    There are plenty of ways discussed about ways to imptove pvp, but since this thread is about how we enjoyed the season, I am going to focus on that.

    I loved it! Previously I would hit the seeds then play in spurts hoping to reach 900, but often getting attacked to much and falling short. Then just try to hold on for a t50 finish.

    Now I still make sure to hit seeds for an easy 10 wins, then would makes sure to do 10 fights a day until 40 and be done. I only t50'd on 3 events this season, but I'm much happier with 1 4* each event than 2 3*s.

    I planned to pace myself on simulator, but ended up finishing it faster than ever since I was motivated to get the Rogue cover which opened up 2 more nodes on whatever that event was called.

    All in all I finished with 538 wins, which is probably about what I did before, but was much more enjoyable since I didn't have to worry about hits from other players coming faster than I could make up for them.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    i got the 4* cover every event. which is a huge improvement from about 25% of the time under the old system -  since champing my first 5* at least. saved hp on not shielding. 

    40 wins is a bit much though. should probably be set at 32 ish, but i guess that's the balance for not losing progression.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less

    24 hours in and 314 votes

    Yes-71/22%

    Indifferent-30/9%

    No-191/61%

    Quit-22/7%

  • Felessa
    Felessa Posts: 161 Tile Toppler
    edited November 2017
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    Well, in "old Versus" I had no motivation to play at all and always stoped after the 400pts mark... because losing progression points was the worst... Now, in these season, I got the 4* cover in 4 events, and it was the first time ever I reached that progression in my almost 3 years MPQ life! And in all of them I wasn't past the 700pts. Another positive thing is that I could use a bigger variety of teams, from 2*s to unboosted 4*s, and not only a pair of the boosted 4*s of the week, over and over...

    But I understand other player's concerns, and yes, I do think 40 wins is too much too (I did only for the 4* covers I really needed) and hopes for adjustments too, specially to lower the 4* cover requirement as higher the CL is, like others have mentioned.
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    Yes I liked the win based system and played the same or less
    I prefer it. It makes perfect sense to uncouple Progression from Placement. People have more ways to win now. In my opinion, this should have been done years ago.

    But I’m not playing for 40 wins. The wins to reward ratio is a separate issue and I hope they give it a second thought. It’s too much effort for too little progress.
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    Indifferent to the win based system and played more
    It's a funny thing. A year ago, I would have absolutely loved this system. I was all but ignoring PvP because I would get hammered down once I got above 600 points or so. It just didn't feel like it was worth the time or effort. 

    Even maybe six months ago, I probably would have been more on board, as at that point I had hit 900 a few times, but it was still not exactly a guaranteed proposition. 

    But in the intervening months, I got into a groove and the past several seasons (three or four at least) I was hitting 900 points in every event and getting full season progression. I'd never gotten to 1200. I usually would start with about 24 hours left and get to 900 in one go (anywhere from one to two hours) then throw up a 24 hour shield and usually finish T25 in CL8. I may have been able to do 1200, but honestly didn't want to burn that much HP shield hopping.

    Strangely enough, I've been finishing Sim for about the past year. Medusa was the first one I finished, right at the end of 2016.

    I got to 40 wins each event this season, but always felt like I was racing the clock to do so. I never really tracked how many wins I got in the old system, but 40 felt like more than I used to do. Although in most cases, I was hitting a reward with about the same amount of points to get that reward in the old system. Maybe a few times I was around 32 or 34 wins when I hit 900, but that's not too far removed from 40.

    In some cases, it was even the reverse. I got the 10 pack, ISO, HP and full progression well before their old point totals before. I suppose the matches I chose to play were worth less than ones I would have before. Only problem was, they weren't necessarily easier. I'm halfway through the 4* tier, so most of my matches were a high level 3* and two champed boosted 4*s.

    Simulator felt like more of a slog for sure. That was the one place where I hit old full progression well before 74 wins. I was probably somewhere in the mid-40s for wins when I crossed 2000.

    Overall, I finished with about the same amount of points and same placement in CL8 as normal (just over 11000 and 144), so no real change there. I did manage T10 on one or two events with nowhere near 1200 points in Slice 5 of CL8, so those were nice bonuses. 

    I could like this system more if the totals were lowered a smidge.  It does feel like more of a time suck overall. And get CP back in progression somehow, or offered to T20, maybe even T50 in CL9.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yes I liked the win based system and played the same or less
    Beer40 said:
    I found this on the NBA 2k18 Reddit page. I thought it was very interesting and since these PVP posts seem to drum up this particular discussion quite a bit, a la "Who pays the bills? Who are they gonna listen to?" I thought I'd share. Now its not a perfect comparison as you're comparing all micro transaction game vs paid copy + micro transactions, but it may give some insight as to where PVP will head in the near future.

    I had the opportunity of speaking to someone who worked in Activision and helped the development of DLC for multiple COD games before leaving for another opportunity. I took the chance to ask them about MTX and whether they thought it was negatively or positively impacting the gaming industry and I was kind of stunned how few people it takes to make MTX insanely profitable.

    They said that after GTA V came out and developers saw the huge success GTAV:O was having with their Shark Cards, it blew the industry wide open for everyone to try and find their own MTX system that worked. They said Advanced Warfare was the first "test case" so to speak where they tried to implement loot crates and they saw the huge potential but it needed a lot of refinement. Eventually, BO3 rolls around and it was ready to be released with a good system and plan in mind for MTX and loot crates were a huge profitable success.

    They said that the most astonishing part though was how profitable these MTX schemes were by only having such small portion of player base buying into them. If at least a fraction (<10%) spent money, it was unbelievably profitable. Not only that, but there was the (<1%) who spend astronomical amounts of money alone and made up the bulk of the profits. They gave accounts of single individuals who would drop over $10k on loot crates alone. Those were the extremes, but it goes to show how effective the system could by pulling people to drop anywhere from small fortunes to $60 here and there on a frequent basis. Because of those few people, now we are where we are. The problem is that unless the larger community understands this situation and refuses to buy the ENTIRE game OUTRIGHT, it doesn't really matter or make a difference if we just ignore the MTX system when we play. By playing, we become complacent and agree to a small percentage of people dictating the experience the larger community has. Games are no longer being made for people like us, their being made for the few suckers that fall into the MTX system, but those few end up basically dictating the development of the entire game for the rest of us.

    TLDR; Unless people stop purchasing entire games outright, and not just resorting to ignoring MTX after buying the game, the small fraction of players who buy into these systems will always dictate that games revolve around a system of MTX. The only way for us to counteract the huge incentives these companies make by including MTX is by making them lose out on far larger amounts by having masses of people refusing to pay the initial $60 for the game in the first place. If not, we've got a dreadful future to look forward to in the gaming community.

    Not surprising.  They are realizing what casinos realized decades ago.  The bigger thing to think about is that this problem is mostly surrounding AAA game companies.  What I hope to see is a revolution of more indie game companies coming out with games that have heart & soul vs just being a re-skinned slot machine.  We've started to see that a little over the last 5 years or, so but I suspect if AAA keeps going down the casino route the gulf will continue to widen.


  • optimus2861
    optimus2861 Posts: 1,233 Chairperson of the Boards
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    I'll have to say I mildly disliked the win system. I realized toward the end of the season that I was sitting at nearly 1800 (or was it 1900) points in SHIELD Sim and had just ~40 wins. In the old system I'd have pushed myself over the line for the cover at 2K; but no way was I grinding out 30+ more matches against Medusa + Grocket.

    Normal events, I just played to 16 and bailed. No different from 575 and bail, I guess, though it often felt like more of a slog (Fist Bump was particularly painful since I lacked any good boosted 4* for the week).
  • byc
    byc Posts: 297 Mover and Shaker
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    Hated it.

    Probably gonna quit soon.
  • AlexxKats
    AlexxKats Posts: 99 Match Maker
    edited November 2017
    As probably others did post earlier (i hope, i didn't check or read back), the choices above don't reflect my reply, or my feelings for this game.

    Long story short: I don't mind win based scenario for pvp, as it will help lower rosters reach the end game faster, which will lessen the terrible MMR into playable or enjoyable and offer us new players to compete against/with. But the current required number of wins is just stupidly high, especially for all those that could reach progress before this season's change.

    I ended up making 16~20 matches on pvps i didn't have time to play (which would amount to 1600 to 2400 scores), and i ended up playing over 70 matches on select pvps, but for entirely different reasons. If it was an average season pre change, i'd probably play a bit more, but all that i noticed this season was many more people not shielding and not engaging into pvp, just dragging themselves through x wins.

    On average i would hit 1200 points (old max progression) at 14 or so fights (i almost never have seed teams when i join). As for simulator, i reached 2000 points (old max progression) in less than 30 fights, reached 2800 points at fight number 45, then hit "seals" and retals of other people slogging through simulator to help them by offering a retal node. Last season, i actually had forgot to play simulator untill last 3 hours or so, so i joined and climbed from 0 to 2040something in less than 2 hours during my morning coffee and shielded to go for work.

    If i had to sum up my experience? I earned about 90 less cp than i would have any other season pre change, with a score similar to my previous t25 season ends [edit: ~25000 points], instead this time i finished 6th, all the while playing less than i used to.
    [edit: if you consider that good, then remember that the better placement is due to people quitting or going casual or stopping at 16 wins and calling it a day, which is bad for the game]
  • Black Duke
    Black Duke Posts: 694 Critical Contributor
    Indifferent to the win based system and played more
    Well, I definitely played more PVP. But it was mostly worth the effort since I get five Top 10 placements in a row.
    My main concern is still the too high number of wins you need for maximum progression. It´s ridiculous when you have scored 1.5k (or more) points and you still haven´t got the 4* cover yet.
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    edited November 2017
    No I disliked the win based system and played the same or less
    Season score of 9048, somewhere around 220 wins, and finished 85th overall on the season CL8. 

    My alliance reqs were still a 9000 season score/700 every event, so I did that every event stopping somewhere around 20-24 wins, 750-900 points. 

    Pros: My placement did not suffer at all.....like AT ALL. In fact, most of the time, the point thresholds for my t25 ranking were way lower than they used to be. I used to absolutely need 900+ points to make 25 any given event, and a lot of events this season I still got t25 with 750-850 points. I had always been a top 51-250 finisher for the season, even the times where I fell just short of 10K, so that didn't change either. The people who are t50 always go mega hard with overall season scores, so t50 isn't any more or less out of reach than it used to be. Finally, while t10 wasn't something I generally pushed for even before the change, it's not something that's incredibly out of reach. The people that generally made t10 had scores between 1000-1200 on the lower end. 

    Cons: The MMR-point threshold remained the same, so around the 500 point mark, double boosted 4-star teams couldn't really be avoided. There is nothing more disheartening than knowing that you have to slog through 20+ more of these kinds of matches after you get your 10 CP. This is what people miss about the old system. Once you get to this point, if you're going to have slog through the boosted flavor or the week regardless, then at least you could specifically pick off the ones that were high point targets. If someone has double-boosted fours, than it's usually a  safe bet that they will score higher, and be worth a good chunk to you. Now it doesn't matter how many points they have, you have to slog through it regardless if you want your shiny participation rewards at 32-40 wins. Placement and progression now come at a compromise of one or the other, when they used to come hand-in-hand. You can score now 1500 points and still not hit full progression, or you can rack up 40 wins and still not even make t50. My 4-star roster is at a point now where everyone is fully covered minus whoever the new shiny is at the time, and I don't weigh ONE COVER heavily enough to feel the slog is worth it, be it a champ level or someones 14th. I'll keep my sanity in exchange for the absolute minimal impact that one cover will have on my roster development. So what it boiled down to, was me getting the 16 wins for the 10 CP every event, and everything additional was gravy for my alliance. I fizzled out in Shield Sim at 24 wins and 1500+ points, one Rogue champ level was NOT worth an additional 50. 
    --------------------------------------
    I'll gladly admit that part of this is me being rigid about my strategy - as someone who's used to joining late and rattling off 700-800 points in one sitting, being asked to join at the beginning and play for the full 2.5 days is like asking me to write with my other hand. I still value my points heavily for ranking purposes, so allowing myself to get pounded for the sake of being at a lower point level to find easier q's is just not in the cards. Making progression goals in PVE AND PVP was something I could reliably expect, and I don't like having to compromise one for the other. If you're ultimately forced into picking one for the other, that's not the game giving you "more freedom", that's you choosing to not go as hard because you don't feel it's worth it - which coincidentally gives you more freedom/time away from the game. I'm trying to join earlier now since having 24 wins to go seems much less daunting when you have a day and a half to do it as opposed to 8 hours, but I'll still be facing double boosted 4-star teams. Strictly saving my 40-win efforts for the new character PVP as it stands. 
  • Taganov
    Taganov Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
    Yes i liked the win based system and played more
    I liked the win-based system and played more. That said, I'm forced to agree that it's on the high-end for wins and the CP removal was a terrible decision.

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