halirin said: It doesn't seem like they're against farming. That's why they increased the max champ sell value.
GigerHR said:2 If they would go one step further and eliminate xp for dupes, it would give them a MUCH better ability to control SCL based scaling/rewards etc. If the only source of xp was a one-time gain from rostering/training/champing/champ leveling, then you end up with a fixed maximum pool of xp; 432,250pts under the new system, if I'm not mistaken. You could easily calculate the xp of any given roster, and hence the SR of that roster, and use that information to determine appropriate enemy levels based on the average roster strength of your player base. This would also let them set the maximum Shield Rank, and you'd never run into a situation like we just had with people hitting SR125 months before SR126+ was available. The max SR would be adjusted whenever enough new characters have been added to the pool to warrant a change, e.g. a new 4* adds 3,625pts to the max possible xp, so just make sure that the max SR covers that new possible total.They may need to either add xp for standard character level increases, or increase the xp reward for champing (a 13-cover unchamped 4* is worth 1,000xp, champed is only 1,125xp... not sure that's enough of a difference to indicate the difference in roster strength). They'd also need to do a one-time normalization, to reassign SR levels to existing rosters. But from then on, they could compare roster strength at a glance and make much more informed decisions regarding SCL scaling/rewards.Right now there is too much variance in roster strength at each SCL because there are too many uncontrolled avenues to gain xp. If they lock it down to a fixed maximum, you'll never have a case where a 2* roster could pvp-grind their way into a Shield Rank that gives them access to SCL 8 (for example). When you know that all the players who have access to a given SCL have roughly equivalent rosters, it's much easier to determine what rewards and enemy levels would be appropriate (in theory).You could still farm 2*s and 3*s (it was worth doing it even before there was xp tied to it), and grind pvp for ISO (players have been doing that since before champ levels), you just wouldn't get xp for it.Oh, and change the name of the points! ISO-8 is this game's "XP"... you play matches to earn it, and use it to level your characters... that's XP. Call these Roster Points (RP), then we can stop with the argument that we should earn them for doing every little thing in the game.
@mega ghost said: Brigby This mostly seems like a sensible update, but can we make two changes? 1) Can you remove XP from 1* activity? This literally just means we'll all be rostering and selling every 1* cover we get for the XP, one at a time, which just adds tedium to the game while also not offering a clear link to our roster levels — we could easily be getting more XP from this than anywhere else.2) Award us XP for every level we raise a character with ISO prior to championing. This helps show a better link between roster level and S.H.I.E.L.D. clearance level as well.
@firethorne said: Brigby I think you might be able to clear up some of the debate here if you could elaborate some more on this topic: why are we going one step forward in one area and one step back in another? If the development team wanted to increase the amount of experience gained through roster development, more in that area certainly could have been added without removing experience gained elsewhere. Ultimately, the change is giving the impression devs think something was inherently wrong about giving players experience from playing missions. If it isn't broke, you don't fix it. So, what about giving experience from playing the game was so broken that it warranted removal?
Brigby said: @mega ghost said: Brigby This mostly seems like a sensible update, but can we make two changes? 1) Can you remove XP from 1* activity? This literally just means we'll all be rostering and selling every 1* cover we get for the XP, one at a time, which just adds tedium to the game while also not offering a clear link to our roster levels — we could easily be getting more XP from this than anywhere else.2) Award us XP for every level we raise a character with ISO prior to championing. This helps show a better link between roster level and S.H.I.E.L.D. clearance level as well. 1) I'll ask the development team if this means players would be able to "farm" 1-Star characters, but I would speculate that 1-Star characters need XP gain, because otherwise newer players wouldn't be able to level up.2) Thanks for the idea! I'll pass that feedback along to them for review.
Brigby said:For example, I am currently in the middle of champing all of my 3-Star characters, however I technically am able to enter SCL 8. I am unable to do so though, because I find SCL 8 to be too difficult for my roster. This can prove to be rather frustrating for many players, so making sure that SHIELD Rank more accurately reflects player roster will allow the development team to make more fitting adjustments to events in the future.
smkspy said: @GigerHR,I don't get why artificially raising your level is even an issue. A two-star player isn't farming, and even if they could get their level high enough to play say scl 8, they still can't compete in it, and if they try it works out for those of us that can compete. From its beginning levels has been more about giving an iso boost every now and then, so slowing down progression just feels like the devs wanting to curb that bonus, which actually hampers roster development.
Brigby said:(Disclaimer: I'm not a developer, so this is purely my analysis, based on the information provided and my experience as a player)SHIELD Rank's intent is to be a key indicator as to a player's roster strength. How does a player's roster strength increase? It increases by recruiting new characters, training their powers, *leveling them up, and/or turning them into champions. (*Please see above talking point #2) A roster does not technically increase strength by playing missions, but rather by benefiting from the Iso-8 and Hero Points acquired from those missions' rewards.Theoretically in the current system, a player could refuse to level up, champion, or recruit a character, and still increase their SHIELD Rank through mission XP. This is obviously an issue, because players will then be introduced to competition that is stronger than their rosters can handle.For example, I am currently in the middle of champing all of my 3-Star characters, however I technically am able to enter SCL 8. I am unable to do so though, because I find SCL 8 to be too difficult for my roster. This can prove to be rather frustrating for many players, so making sure that SHIELD Rank more accurately reflects player roster will allow the development team to make more fitting adjustments to events in the future.
mexus said: Since you're here @Brigby, can you confirm that a player can roster duplicate copies (at the same time or one after another) of whatever character, let's say Moonstone, and get XP from them both?
ZeiramMR said: mexus said: Since you're here @Brigby, can you confirm that a player can roster duplicate copies (at the same time or one after another) of whatever character, let's say Moonstone, and get XP from them both? To clarify for @Brigby :1) Will you get XP from Rostering a character after the initial time you have ever rostered that character? (Currently the answer is no)2) Do you get XP from such a duplicate character for applying covers, championing, and adding champion levels? (Currently the answer is yes)#1 is what has people thinking that someone could fill a roster slot with a 1* getting XP, sell it to open the slot back up again, and repeat for each of their pending 1* covers.
It's the use of the word "Recruit" in the initial table. If you have a cover you can't use immediately you have a nice big button that says Recruit. If you have an open roster slot and get a cover you can't use immediately, there's a big black bar across it that says Recruit and it's added to your roster automatically. The natural inference is that you'll get the XP for recruiting the character, regardless.
If that's not the case the wording of the table should be changed. For clarity.
vinsensual said: I don't follow this argument about protecting newer players from themselves when they overreach in choosing SCLs. When you enter an event, it shows you the range of the enemy levels, doesn't it? Why give thought to players who would knowingly walk into a den of enemies 100s of levels above their own, get mollywhopped, then do it again 3-4 days later? Also, I was 3% draw rate for 4s on 140 heroic tokens. This is all kinds of bogus.
broll said: vinsensual said: I don't follow this argument about protecting newer players from themselves when they overreach in choosing SCLs. When you enter an event, it shows you the range of the enemy levels, doesn't it? Why give thought to players who would knowingly walk into a den of enemies 100s of levels above their own, get mollywhopped, then do it again 3-4 days later? Also, I was 3% draw rate for 4s on 140 heroic tokens. This is all kinds of bogus. They specifically stated this is to support upcoming changes. It's possible they are considering what many have suggested and locking people into playing the highest SCL or some small range of SCLs near the top (like the top 2 or 3). I hope that's not the case, but it seems likely based on this.
Beer40 said: vinsensual said: I don't follow this argument about protecting newer players from themselves when they overreach in choosing SCLs. When you enter an event, it shows you the range of the enemy levels, doesn't it? Why give thought to players who would knowingly walk into a den of enemies 100s of levels above their own, get mollywhopped, then do it again 3-4 days later? Also, I was 3% draw rate for 4s on 140 heroic tokens. This is all kinds of bogus. When something doesn't adhere to common sense, then people start speculating about the "real" reason for change. And that's what we're all doing right now, because no one really knows why they made changes to the structure in this way.Here's how to fix this mess:1) Give everyone at SR 125+ their appropriate ISO influx tomorrow.2) Reset and start every single player at SR 0 under the new system.3) Have formula in place that PROPERLY calculates ISO earned based on number of characters rostered and levels of each character. Current roster only. Dupes do NOT, nor ever will count, farming counts as dupes as well.4) Give out appropriate ISO reward and new SR to all players.5) New system is a go. Only way to get XP is to roster new (to you) characters and level them (all levels from 1 cover up to max level gain some pittance of XP).