Updates to S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank and Player XP (11/7/17)

madoctor

@Brigby
This is great news! Well appreciated by all, and that's a sizeable bump from 125 to 200. Thank you to the devs and you for passing this along.

The new XP system is interesting. I think I like it. Except may be the part where rostering 1* and levelling and selling might be exploitable. May need to look into that.

And @aesthetocyst banging on the drums got us something. Now let's keep it up for the PvP system! And you have a "DEAD RINGER"LY roster. Keep it up!

Jsh2014

@Brigby just one question on this, wouldn't the 5*  essential node in pve be an example of a players roster strength? 

Starfury

aesthetocyst said:

So that's 1080iso or 1440iso worth of XP, plus 100iso for selling, which beats selling covers individually.

True, as long as the value of xp stays above 10 iso you make a small profit. Only question I've got is if you're not better off spending that roster management time on playing one more sim match.

On the other hand, what's more mindnumbing? Farming 1* or playing yet another sim match...

Crowl

Brigby said:

Bryan Lambert said:

Of course, if the true intent was to grant XP fo your roster strength, there’d also be an XP award for leveling characters under the new system. Cough cough. But that’s OK. 

The big question for me isn’t so much this change, versus how many people abandon clears five and six in PvE, which I was doing mainly for that green check and the 10XP. If enough people do that and it doesn’t affect my sub and final placmenet too much, this could seriously cut back on the grind.

*looks at provided chart* But you do get an XP award for leveling up a championed character. 

Levelling a 12 cover 5* from 255 to their cap at 435 for example would surely amount to an increase in roster power and yet it doesn't award any XP as opposed to max covering a 1*, so clearly this new system needs work even if we ignore the obvious point that it yet again adds another penalty to anyone who has suffered at the hands of rng as each discarded cover is a larger loss of xp than before.

Magic

Looking at it I don't think I like the change. It will not show my roster strength and it will slow me down

You may write all you want about 700% increase here and 400% increase there but I just don't see how I will make up for the XP from PvE and DDQ. I would be fine with taking it away from PvP as it was not originally there (Devs were surprised that people started earning more that way when they have forced everybody to play more matches??? really??) but not DDQ and PvE.

@Brigby Most of the covers come from packs so removing XP from pack opening should be included in the fancy calculation of 100s%  increase of XP. We were already getting the XP for adding champ levels or training powers so the change has to compensate for this. I just don't see it happening. You might want to break down the figures more to show there is no net negative for players with this change.


All that being said - it seems I will finally be able to cut down on the PvE experience. I don't aim for placement and the 5-6 clears have no additional value with this change. This part I like.

Bowgentle

So playing the game doesn't improve your roster, huh.

This would make sense if it had been implemented from the beginning.

But I guess it works for new players, they'll get sorted into the correct shield ranks.

Banacek555

Am I missing something here? So if your roster is completed and you can't train a power, your already championed and MAX, and you can't recruit new characters until they are released.

where is the XP coming from that makes up for this loss in 1000s of XP points per month?

by my calculations - if can only wait for 5* train power XP - I'll be getting 1 a month!

is this fair brigby?

Kevin61

Ok, correct me if I am wrong but isn't XP an abbreviation for experience points?  One of the definitions of experience is:  "the observing, encountering, or undergoing of things generally as they occur in the course of time"
Experience means playing a match, win or lose.  As they have it now, playing a single-reward match (DDQ nodes) awards 10 experience points because you are gaining experience in playing, team building, strategy, etc.  With the new method, all you have to do is roster/champ/level up your characters.  Where is the experience????  Not sure exactly sure yet how I feel about this change.

Starfury

Kevin61 said:

Ok, correct me if I am wrong but isn't XP an abbreviation for experience points?  One of the definitions of experience is:  "the observing, encountering, or undergoing of things generally as they occur in the course of time"
Experience means playing a match, win or lose.  As they have it now, playing a single-reward match (DDQ nodes) awards 10 experience points because you are gaining experience in playing, team building, strategy, etc.  With the new method, all you have to do is roster/champ/level up your characters.  Where is the experience????  Not sure exactly sure yet how I feel about this change.

So if they call it Roster Points you're ok with the change?

Why not just call it like it is and say you don't like that you'll get less ISO? That's a far better justification to dislike the change than arguing about terminology.

DAZ0273

If the idea is to reward the levelling system, would it not be worth giving 1* Champ levels? That would give even more incentive to roster them for newer players and keep them longer – throw in some iso and standard tokens, maybe a heroic or 2 for later ranks.

I've always felt this game completely abandoned the 1* tier but it has some iconic characters in it and the only Juggernaut in the game, would be nice to give it some extra use. If players will farm 1* for XP, they will definitely farm for extra rewards.

jamesh

Banacek555 said:

Am I missing something here? So if your roster is completed and you can't train a power, your already championed and MAX, and you can't recruit new characters until they are released.

where is the XP coming from that makes up for this loss in 1000s of XP points per month?

by my calculations - if can only wait for 5* train power XP - I'll be getting 1 a month!

is this fair brigby?

If you have completely maxed every character, your only source of extra XP would be from rostering or recycling duplicate characters.

... which would make zero difference to your overall roster strength, so maybe it shouldn't increase your shield rank?

Phillipes

Mexus and few others are right.
Re-rostering wont give us XP, just read Brigby´s first post.
I dont´t know why so many forumites (page 1 - 5) are so happy, when XP gain probably practicly stops for most of us.

broll

Punisher5784 said:

Brigby said:

Winning matches and completing missions in Versus Tournaments and Story events, respectively, will no longer grant XP.

The reason for this is because completing them does not increase the strength of your roster, therefore we do not want it impacting your S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank, which should be representative of roster strength only.

On paper I do not like this change at all. The statement you made above in Bold is wrong. In order to increase the strength of our roster we must complete matches because ISO is needed to level a character. Therefore, if we're not playing numerous matches, it is difficult to strengthen our roster. However someone who buys a bunch of HP to buy tokens and adds champ levels will gain XP.. without playing a match.

To make this worse this change followed after PvE full progression increased from 4 to 5 and win-based PvP has resulted in far more matches played. This change feels like a response to all the XP gained from the increased playtime.

Personally for me, I will greatly miss the TU XP. I initiated the TU request process within our alliance. It felt great that we worked together to send TU for XP. 

The statement isn't wrong, at worst it's incomplete.  Someone who chooses to play only DDQ and a few easy levels in a very low SCL of PvE can easily fly up the SR ranks with almost no roster improvement.  I prooved this out on my own steam side account a while back.  I went up like 20 SRs and went from max SCL5 to max SCL6 with almost no roster improvement at all.  So I was at a place where I was eligable for SCL7, but had a roster with 0 5*s rosters, 0 4*s rostered, only half of the 3*s roster and only 3 of them champed and only like 4 or 5 2*s champed.  That's not an SCL7 roster and playing at SCL7 with that low of a roster and SCL based scaling would likely be unplayable.  This is what this is aimed to fix.

I also like the fact that XP will no longer be tied to TUs.  Now I won't feel [like I'm losing out*] handing out good 2* TUs and will stop handing out dud 5* TUs just for XP.

[Moderator edit -- removed an inappropriate term many don't realize is inappropriate.  PMing poster with details.  -Dayv]

mikelnoe

Sheesh I should start selling cheese cause there's so much wine to go with it....

Truthfully I'm just happy they increased the cap at all. Been Sitting at 125 for some time now.

mpqr7

A typical player gets 70 xp from DDQ, 100+ xp from PVE, 30+ from opening tokens, 20+ from Pv,
P, 20+ xp from sending TUs... So that's around 240+ daily xp we're now missing out on. I'm skeptical that the increased roster xp rewards will make up for it.

This 1* thing will be fine but will tale forever and be a boring waste of time. But I'll do it.. what choice do I have!!

broll

aesthetocyst said:

I'll be rostering the 1*s, and training them to full coverage, and then selling them. Unless they changed it, you won't get XP for rostering a previously rostered toon. I've farmed all the 2s twelve times over, so I've confirmed that many times

You will however get the XP for training the covers (again, unless they changed that.)

So 90 or 120xp, depending which 1 we're talking about, at the opportunity cost of 0xp and 1000 or 1300 iso (covers that could have been sold), and sell the character at 100iso.

The XP itself has iso value, so long as you're not at max rank, which I won't be as of Thursday. At rank 125 easch xp was worth roughly 12iso IIRC.

So that's 1080iso or 1440iso worth of XP, plus 100iso for selling, which beats selling covers individually.

AND saves the hassle of selling the character off the roster 10 or 13 times ... "...lose all progress?" "Yes." "...lose all progress?" "Yes." "...lose all progress?" "Yes.""...lose all progress?" "YES YES YES YEESSSSSS."

____________________

In general I agree that Rank should reflect roster strength, not in-game grinding.

BUT #1 ... Too bad all our ranks are now built on "tainted" foundations. Let's just all agree to forget about this.

BUT #2 ... Earning XP for farming seems to counter this design goal. I've received a pantload of XP from  2* farming, 3* farming, and now 1* farming. Yes those activities help me make 4* champs and eventually 5* champs, but those activities yield their own XP. If rank = current roster strength is the goal, then characters should only pay XP for their first cycle, or pay reduced XP on additional cycles. And selling characters should negate some XP, if you really want rank to reflect roster.

Meanwhile, thanks for tackling this now, I'll take advantage whilst I may ... ! 

Agreed on all accounts.  I have to assume that if dup XP remains a thing I will eventually be removed once they look at metrics and see people now duping 1*s for XP and how much they get off 2* and even 3* farms.

Phillipes

mexus said:

Phillipes said:

Mexus and few others are right.
Re-rostering wont give us XP, just read Brigby´s first post.
I dont´t know why so many forumites (page 1 - 5) are so happy, when XP gain probably practicly stops for most of us.

Mexus aka. Ulfpam, 
howdy alliance mate!

I cannot find the statement in the original post you refer to. It's a lot of text though so I might have missed it.
For me, it's an assumption that re-rostering characters won't grant XP like when you build them the first time. Is this actually really confirmed?

After these changes, the only activities that will grant XP will directly be related to improving a player's roster: recruiting characters, training their powers, increasing champion levels, etc. Winning matches and completing missions in Versus Tournaments and Story events, respectively, will no longer grant XP.

I think thats the one.
Rebulilding farm is not improving roster.

But I can be wrong ofc. We will see.

nonnel1

Wait....  so the game won’t award xp for, you know, playing it?  Like every other game in the known universe from call of duty to wheel of fortune

broll

nonnel1 said:

Wait....  so the game won’t award xp for, you know, playing it?  Like every other game in the known universe from call of duty to wheel of fortune

What Wheel of Fortune game have you played that awards XP?!?

The difference between this game and most games that award XP is typically you gain XP that you then use to level up.  In this game the real leveling up (outside SR) is done with ISO and covers.  If XP is what advanced your roster it would make sense to get it for playing, instead this is like inverse XP where they are trying to make a secondary roster level system to approximate the strength of your roster.  Comparing it to any other game that gains XP is apples to oranges because this game isn't using XP like any other game I've ever played.

broll

mexus said:

Phillipes said:

mexus said:

Phillipes said:

Mexus and few others are right.
Re-rostering wont give us XP, just read Brigby´s first post.
I dont´t know why so many forumites (page 1 - 5) are so happy, when XP gain probably practicly stops for most of us.

Mexus aka. Ulfpam, 
howdy alliance mate!

I cannot find the statement in the original post you refer to. It's a lot of text though so I might have missed it.
For me, it's an assumption that re-rostering characters won't grant XP like when you build them the first time. Is this actually really confirmed?

After these changes, the only activities that will grant XP will directly be related to improving a player's roster: recruiting characters, training their powers, increasing champion levels, etc. Winning matches and completing missions in Versus Tournaments and Story events, respectively, will no longer grant XP.

I think thats the one.
Rebulilding farm is not improving roster.

But I can be wrong ofc. We will see.

With this I agree.
Could be a "nice wording"  for "re-cycled characters doesn't grant XP" or not. We'll see. I'm going to assume that you and me are right in our assumption though until further notice.

That's reading a lot into a little.  I'm 50/50 on whether dups will count or not.  If they did it correctly for their goal (the bolded text) dups won't count.  But the fact that they listed several changes and that wasn't one of them doesn't make it seem likely that it's changed.  In addition we all know they typically always manage to miss/mess up something in the first go round of anything they try to do.