Updates to S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank and Player XP (11/7/17)

Dayv

Phillipes said:

I dont´t know why so many forumites (page 1 - 5) are so happy, when XP gain probably practicly stops for most of us.

Do you not champ your characters, or do you add no champ levels to them?

XP gain of any kind was frozen for me when I hit level 125 a couple months ago.  I'm happy to gain it back in any form, even if it works a little differently.

I added two 5* champ levels (it was a good day for classic tokens), about four 4* champ levels, at least eight 3* champ levels, and maybe half a dozen 2* champ levels (I sold off a bunch of 2* max champs and haven't re-champed most yet) to my roster today  -- just from event rewarded covers and tokens and the daily single token deals (yes, even the 200 HP ones I keep telling myself to stop buying).  That's 360 XP right there, and I'm probably low-balling the numbers a little.  Now this is a veteran player doing the highest available CLs in both PvE and PvP, but even I'm sitting on some 4* covers I have no use for at the moment.

I won't really know until I try it out, but I'm willing to believe the new system will be just fine... unless you softcap your roster.  Do you softcap your roster?  Indefinitely?  If yes, stop that.  Because here's another way that's about to hold you back.

Moon Roach

My Wolveroach (Steam) account doesn't do much except at weekends or alliance events.  Even so, it still has 15 championed 4*, none above level 278.

I thought I'd track tonight's Daily Deadpool, as that's pretty much the only thing I'm guaranteed to play when not travelling.

60 XP for nodes, 12 XP for the 3 taco and 1 elite tokens.  10 XP for the 3* cover (champion level), 4 2* from the tokens, so 16 XP from champion levels there.  Grand total: 98 XP.

With the new scheme, it's 15 XP for the 3* cover, 40 XP for the 2* covers.  Grand total: 55 XP.  Net loss 43 XP.

If the 2* and 3* were not championed, tonight it would have been 85 instead of 98, new scheme 100 instead of 55.  Net gain 15 XP.

Clash Days now are 10 XP for the win, 10 or 20 for the cover.  New scheme, 0 for the win, 80 or 25 for the cover.  Net gain of 60 or a loss of 5, depending on if it's training or levelling a champion.

(And I'm assuming that we're not going to discover that, just like "Recruit", covering / championing / levelling is also a one-off reward.)

I'm almost tempted to keep my max-champed 2*, and fully cover duplicates to sell them without levelling them.  But then I'd lose out on all the benefits of champion levels.  And need more roster slots.

Ooh, this is turning into some mad resource-optimisation conundrum, when all I want to do is play a Marvel-based match-3 game.

Starfury

Dayv said:

Phillipes said:

I dont´t know why so many forumites (page 1 - 5) are so happy, when XP gain probably practicly stops for most of us.

Do you not champ your characters, or do you add no champ levels to them?

XP gain of any kind was frozen for me when I hit level 125 a couple months ago.  I'm happy to gain it back in any form, even if it works a little differently.

I added two 5* champ levels (it was a good day for classic tokens), about four 4* champ levels, at least eight 3* champ levels, and maybe half a dozen 2* champ levels (I sold off a bunch of 2* max champs and haven't re-champed most yet) to my roster today  -- just from event rewarded covers and tokens and the daily single token deals (yes, even the 200 HP ones I keep telling myself to stop buying).  That's 360 XP right there, and I'm probably low-balling the numbers a little.  Now this is a veteran player doing the highest available CLs in both PvE and PvP, but even I'm sitting on some 4* covers I have no use for at the moment.

I won't really know until I try it out, but I'm willing to believe the new system will be just fine... unless you softcap your roster.  Do you softcap your roster?  Indefinitely?  If yes, stop that.  Because here's another way that's about to hold you back.

In the old system it would've been:

80 xp for 2 5* + 20 xp for 2 LT
80 xp for 4 4* + 0-40 xp for the tokens
80 xp for 8 3* + 0-24 xp for the tokens
24 xp for 6 2* + 0-18 xp for the tokens

So a total of 284 + 0-82 xp under the current system. It's almost a wash as far as tokens/covers are concerned and a complete loss of xp for playing. Be glad it took them so long to implement the change, you got tons of extra xp 

The new system isn't the end of the world, but it's markedly worse for active players with developed rosters.

I don't have any doubt that Brigby's statement is absolutely correct "The team spent a lot of time crunching the numbers to make sure that the XP players are gaining in the new system would be equivalent to the XP gain in the old system."

It's just that this applies to the playerbase as a whole, and that includes tons of players who never got the 100xp per day for green-checking PvE and who still have a lot of characters to maxcover at increased rewards.

Starfury

Moon Roach said:

I'm almost tempted to keep my max-champed 2*, and fully cover duplicates to sell them without levelling them.  But then I'd lose out on all the benefits of champion levels.  And need more roster slots.

Don't worry, just selling them for 250 iso would be more profitable than the 15xp you get for applying a cover.

Spoit

 

Moon Roach said:

.

Ooh, this is turning into some mad resource-optimisation conundrum, when all I want to do is play a Marvel-based match-3 game.

It's always been a resource optimization game. It's just that the primary resource was time, and the management thereoff. A clicker game without the ability to have it autoplay

Eagledave

When does the daily patch go through?

DAZ0273

Wumpushunter said:

Brigby said:: We're aiming for S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank to better measure how much you've progressed throughout the game. Tying S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank and roster strength closer together lets us use S.H.I.E.L.D. Rank for event improvements we're hoping to make in the future.

I'm not sure using shield levels for anything is a good idea. Running a 2 star farm will do little for you roster progress but will increase you shield level now more then ever. It may come to a a point where you might trap people with high shield levels and poor rosters into an impossible situation.

Well running a 2* farm will net you iso, tokens, 3* covers so it will improve your roster by providing extra resources that can be applied.

SpringSoldier

So, has anyone done all the math? What would be the optimal strategy to gain ISO? For hp and cp it's probably to build a 2 and 3 farm. But if ISO is the only resource you're really lacking, does it help to build a 1 farm? Or even a 2 farm?

[Deleted User]

firethorne said:

Brigby said:
(Disclaimer: I'm not a developer, so this is purely my analysis, based on the information provided and my experience as a player)

SHIELD Rank's intent is to be a key indicator as to a player's roster strength. How does a player's roster strength increase? It increases by recruiting new characters, training their powers, *leveling them up, and/or turning them into champions. (*Please see above talking point #2) A roster does not technically increase strength by playing missions, but rather by benefiting from the Iso-8 and Hero Points acquired from those missions' rewards.

Theoretically in the current system, a player could refuse to level up, champion, or recruit a character, and still increase their SHIELD Rank through mission XP. This is obviously an issue, because players will then be introduced to competition that is stronger than their rosters can handle.

For example, I am currently in the middle of champing all of my 3-Star characters, however I technically am able to enter SCL 8. I am unable to do so though, because I find SCL 8 to be too difficult for my roster. This can prove to be rather frustrating for many players, so making sure that SHIELD Rank more accurately reflects player roster will allow the development team to make more fitting adjustments to events in the future.

If that is truly the goal, then why not implement the rank as an algorithm based upon the actual roster?  The count of how many times you max-champ and sell 2*s isn't truly an indication of actual roster strength.  It doesn't really tell you anything more accurately than the count of how many times you cleared a node did.  The new method seems just as spurious at getting you to this proposed goal, when the data that will actually get you to this goal is right there at your fingertips in the roster data itself.    

Exactly my point early.

Score rosters as they stand, makes perfect sense to me as a measure of how strong they are at any given time.

2* Rostered = 20 points
Each level added = 10 points
Each champ level = 15 points

....and so on.  

Its really not that difficult, and its the most obvious way of actually applying a level to indicate the strength of a roster

Im currently SCL 102, I could not care less if they applied something like this and I ended up as level 30.  Its a meaningless number, so long as it is fair/representitive then Im good.

ESPECIALLY if it means they can properly gate different clearance levels and then set appropriate rewards at each.

[Deleted User]

SpringSoldier said:

So, has anyone done all the math? What would be the optimal strategy to gain ISO? For hp and cp it's probably to build a 2 and 3 farm. But if ISO is the only resource you're really lacking, does it help to build a 1 farm? Or even a 2 farm?

I have no ideas on 1*, but a 2* farm is a net 5k ISO drain. Well worth it when you consider the additional tokens, HP, CP... you get through champing 2*s - but an iso defecit none the less. You cant add champ levels to 1*. All I can say is I can sell my maxed juggs for 4000iso, but Ive no idea how much I have in him!

Starfury

SpringSoldier said:

So, has anyone done all the math? What would be the optimal strategy to gain ISO? For hp and cp it's probably to build a 2 and 3 farm. But if ISO is the only resource you're really lacking, does it help to build a 1 farm? Or even a 2 farm?

1* farming will be iso-positive. (assuming >10 iso per xp)

2* farming will end up being pretty much iso-neutral under the new system. You'll get 476 additional xp for one complete cycle (156 for applying covers 2-13, 20 for champing and 300 for 50 champ levels) which should more or less erase the previous few thousand iso lost.

3* farming might end up being about even as well. Don't know the iso loss but you'll earn 950 (420+30+500) extra xp per champ cycle

Phillipes

Dayv said:

Phillipes said:

I dont´t know why so many forumites (page 1 - 5) are so happy, when XP gain probably practicly stops for most of us.

Do you not champ your characters, or do you add no champ levels to them?

XP gain of any kind was frozen for me when I hit level 125 a couple months ago.  I'm happy to gain it back in any form, even if it works a little differently.

I added two 5* champ levels (it was a good day for classic tokens), about four 4* champ levels, at least eight 3* champ levels, and maybe half a dozen 2* champ levels (I sold off a bunch of 2* max champs and haven't re-champed most yet) to my roster today  -- just from event rewarded covers and tokens and the daily single token deals (yes, even the 200 HP ones I keep telling myself to stop buying).  That's 360 XP right there, and I'm probably low-balling the numbers a little.  Now this is a veteran player doing the highest available CLs in both PvE and PvP, but even I'm sitting on some 4* covers I have no use for at the moment.

I won't really know until I try it out, but I'm willing to believe the new system will be just fine... unless you softcap your roster.  Do you softcap your roster?  Indefinitely?  If yes, stop that.  Because here's another way that's about to hold you back.

Hello Dayv, Im not softcapping at all. I do not leveleling my 5*, and have all but 3  4* champed   (rogue, lockjaw, nightcrawler)...
Well, I hope you right and we wont lost XP in new system.

(Btw, devs could just increase max rank from 125 do 200 without any other changes... Im rank 110 btw.)

broll

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. I've just confirmed with the developers that you only receive XP from recruiting if it is the first time you would be recruiting that specific character.

Very few were questioning that. The real question is will repeat characters get XP from training powers and champ levels.  But at this point it will probably be live before Brigby can respond to this. 

NMANOZ

Not sure why they could not have just increase the level cap and XP earned without taking away other ways that we earned XP. Every time they put a positive change, there always has to be a negative.

jamesh

mexus said:

broll said:

Brigby said:

Hi Everyone. I've just confirmed with the developers that you only receive XP from recruiting if it is the first time you would be recruiting that specific character.

Very few were questioning that. The real question is will repeat characters get XP from training powers and champ levels.  But at this point it will probably be live before Brigby can respond to this. 

As stated before, I suspect we can only get XP from building that same character once.
The lack of a proper response makes me more certain of this. It's the same old pattern:
Make a change. Be it CL9 or SHIELD Rank 125 or Bonus Heroes. At the same time make a change to make people angry.

Why would you suspect that?  As this is a data push, it can likely only change how much experience is awarded for in-game actions that already award experience.  With the current settings, you get the same experience for adding covers or champ levels to a dupe as for the first copy of the character.

There is a one-off grant of experience for the first time you roster a particular character, and Brigby has confirmed that the same will be true after the data update.

Anything more would likely require a code update, which would take a lot longer to roll out.

broll

NMANOZ said:

Not sure why they could not have just increase the level cap and XP earned without taking away other ways that we earned XP. Every time they put a positive change, there always has to be a negative.

Then you don't understand the change at all...  The point is to take away the ways that don't necessarily reflect roster building.  The increased XP is only to try and make it less of a hit on ISO income.

DAZ0273

NMANOZ said:

Not sure why they could not have just increase the level cap and XP earned without taking away other ways that we earned XP. Every time they put a positive change, there always has to be a negative.

Well one of the stated reasons is that the Dev's want to use SR for future game development and have it tied into roster strength. So the question is: what will that entail and will it make the game better or worse?

twistmonkey

Quick bit of maths, assuming you get 5xp for recruiting a 1* every time, 1* is farming is ISO positive *just*:

For me, SR 124, assuming I'll get 63k ISO for the next time I go up a rank (i.e. ignoring the 100k one off at SR125), 1XP = 63k ISO / 5,350 XP requirement = 11.78 ISO value of 1 XP

If you recruit a 1* and train all 12 powers, you'll get 5 + 12 * 10 = 125k XP which is worth 1,472 ISO

If you were to sell all 13 1* covers, you'd get 1,300 ISO, so farming the covers yields a profit of 172 ISO. Obviously max levelling the 1* character would make this ISO negative.

Or in other words, as long as one XP is worth more than 1,300 / 125 = 10.4 ISO, 1* farms are ISO positive.

As for whether it's worth opening another 6 slots to gain ~1k ISO every time you flip your 1* characters is an individual choice.

Personally, given the time I spend on this game already, I won't be 1* farming!

twistmonkey

That brings your profit per 1* down to 113, and in order to remain profitable you need 1,300 / 120 = 10.83 ISO per XP to remain profitable. Leaning even further towards not worth it for the amount of roster maintenance this would involve.

firethorne

Brigby said:

The team spent a lot of time crunching the numbers to make sure that the XP players are gaining in the new system would be equivalent to the XP gain in the old system.

And I think this is the ultimate problem in the D3/Demi design philosophy.  The old system is inadequate.  Solution: scrap it and make an equivalent system, so it will be equivalently inadequate.  One step forward, one step back.

4* character draws were too diluted?  Scrap it, have tokens reward only the latest.  Oh, that didn't work either?  Put 'em back in. 

People don't like PvP, because they find hitting the top point progression rewards tedious?  Okay, make it a win counter... but remove the most wanted CP progression reward, so people will be in an equivalent position.