How do the clubbed baby seals feel?

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  • aa25
    aa25 Posts: 348 Mover and Shaker
    edited November 2017
    tiomono said:
    Calnexin said:
    smkspy said:

    I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 
    Spot-on.  Every time I (used to) reply to the in-game survey, I say I wouldn't recommend it because it's too difficult for a new player to approach.  And now with your insight, I feel like I shot myself in the foot.  Or at least helped load the gun.
    This is it right here. Higher tier rosters griping that it's harder now, when they have spent years saying they would not recommend the game to new players because they would not be able to progress. Those surveys were a joke on these forums with people always putting low numbers to vent their anger.

    Now we are dealing with the devs attempting to make the game more accessible for newcomers.
    None of these explains why the 4* needs 40-wins and the removal of the 15 cp. The new wins-based system could have truly helped new players without hurting vets by just having a more sensible effort (24 wins ? - 900/38) to get the 4* cover and leaving 15 cp in the progression.

    Edit: Just want to emphasize, my complaint/concern, which I believe are the same with most of the vets', are the effort to get the 4* which is now more or less doubled and the removal of 15 cp from the progression. The concept of wins-based is fine, as long as the reward structure makes sense which, in my opinion, is not at the moment.
  • TranscendGod
    TranscendGod Posts: 53 Match Maker
    I understand why the changes aren't good for most 5* players. They could fix this problem by releasing cl9 for pvp with good prizes. Imagine a legendary for top 5 and 2 legendaries for 1st place (similar to cl9 pve). Better placement and progression rewards. Would benefit everyone as placement would become easier in lower CL.

    That being said, I don't think some people fully appreciate just how many more 3* and 4* players are playing pvp. Which makes sense because a 5* player can't normally queue them until breaking mmr. As a 4* player, I used to be able to queue 3* teams worth good points until around 500-600. Now I can queue them at 800+. It's great! I've never hit 40 wins in any of these pvps, but I've been top 10 fairly often. In the nightcrawler pvp, I climbed from 0 to 1100+ without any hits. Got to play around with a bunch of different teams and had more fun than ever before in pvp.

    The new system is better for some and worse for others. I hope they improve it. I think cl9 with good prizes would do the trick, and if enough of us agree then perhaps we could work together to convince the devs to release it.


  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
    aa25 said:

    None of these explains why the 4* needs 40-wins and the removal of the 15 cp. The new wins-based system could have truly helped new players without hurting vets by just having a more sensible effort (24 wins ? - 900/38) to get the 4* cover and leaving 15 cp in the progression.


    There's a relatively popular theory that the devs don't play their own game - or if they do, they play it at a very low level and don't put much effort into playtesting the highest tiers.  Perhaps 40 wins at 2-3* MMR is actually reasonable in terms of time input and effort, and they put it there because that was their experience.

    As for removing the 15 CP, I agree with the theory posited elsewhere that it's just economics.  There was too much free CP going into the system for the long-term health of the game, so they bottlenecked it into a highly reduced form that is easily tracked and controlled.  They've still left a little less than half of the original offer on the progression table, so it's not like they shut off the spigot.  They just turned it way down.
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    I play far more pvp mow then before the change.
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    Finished Falcon pvp today. 40 wins, 10 were seeds, probably another 15-20 were seals and the rest were guys at or above my level. Don't think I ever got higher than 650. Quick question. Can it really be called a grind or a slog if I'm enjoying it?
  • BoyWonder1914
    BoyWonder1914 Posts: 884 Critical Contributor
    shardwick said:
    Finished Falcon pvp today. 40 wins, 10 were seeds, probably another 15-20 were seals and the rest were guys at or above my level. Don't think I ever got higher than 650. Quick question. Can it really be called a grind or a slog if I'm enjoying it?
    How the heck do you find more than 3 seed teams in a regular PVP? 
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Tile Toppler
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    shardwick said:
    Finished Falcon pvp today. 40 wins, 10 were seeds, probably another 15-20 were seals and the rest were guys at or above my level. Don't think I ever got higher than 650. Quick question. Can it really be called a grind or a slog if I'm enjoying it?
    How the heck do you find more than 3 seed teams in a regular PVP? 
    I never get more than 3.

    I tend to find I play for an hour straight on day 1, including 3 seeds I end up around 20 wins.

    After that the matches are tougher, but its easy enough to play 10 miutes here and there and make up another 10 or so wins over the day. 

    Then its a day and a half to make another 10 wins, which I often do the following day just because Im impatient and like getting the rewards.

    I certainly seems MMR is the mystery ingredient here - for me its basically fun.  I see a variety of teams, at a level that make it challenging by the end.

    Others have it hard from the start, at which point 40 wins must be beyond daunting.

    As Im not playing PVE past progression I tend to find I have time to play PVP when I would ordinarily play PVE but dont need to now.  So it works out fairly conveniently.
  • Kahmon
    Kahmon Posts: 625 Critical Contributor
    I usually get 8 to 10 if I join in the first few sdconds.
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    BoyWonder1914 said:
    shardwick said:
    Finished Falcon pvp today. 40 wins, 10 were seeds, probably another 15-20 were seals and the rest were guys at or above my level. Don't think I ever got higher than 650. Quick question. Can it really be called a grind or a slog if I'm enjoying it?
    How the heck do you find more than 3 seed teams in a regular PVP? 
    I usually start right away and can get at least eight or nine. Like for Hulk's event I only got eight because he took me a bit longer because of his animations of getting angry. R4Gamora tore through the Falcon seeds though.
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    The rockett said:
    Calnexin said:
    smkspy said:

    I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 
    Spot-on.  Every time I (used to) reply to the in-game survey, I say I wouldn't recommend it because it's too difficult for a new player to approach.  And now with your insight, I feel like I shot myself in the foot.  Or at least helped load the gun.
    See I disagree.  Without the community of LINE, I would not be playing anymore.  That is the sole reason I still play because it is great to talk to people across the world and learn new things.  In fact met a few in RL. 
    That's cool and all, but it is an after effect of getting further into the game. 

    It's not like there is a pop-up once you start playing that says "hey, we know we don't give you clear instructions on how to play the naunces of the game. Go to this line app and learn all about it!"

    I didn't learn about line until about my second line alliance where one of the commanders suggested to get it.

    Much as sharks hate this change, the reasoning behind it and changes to every aspect is clear whether or not.one agrees with it or not. 

  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Same.  I was almost 1 year in before learning about LINE.  thats changed everything for me with the game. Learned so much more about the game and what to do and how then I could learn here.  I guess one thing that really makes me upset is they run a sale and i dropped $XXXX with my ally mates buying a lot also and then they make the changes for the why pvp is played.  No warning or nothing. 
  • Doc L
    Doc L Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
    Man, I didn’t want to post in this thread, but it’s evolving like PvP into something completely different!

    I just wanted to suggest that, rather than CL9 being a ‘thing’ in PvP, why don’t they just add ‘old PvP’ back as ‘end game/5*’ as a new mode, with decent rewards for all who enter. Maybe even make it ‘pay Hp’ to enter like the very first 3* Falcon PvP was - 50 HP, everyone guaranteed at least 1 heroic pack. 

    There is is a real divide between vets, high 4*, mid 4* and so on downwards, and it feels like ‘one system for all’ is not a good idea - just add in more modes, and make the end game more interesting/exist at all, with worthwhile rewards.

    On the topic itself, our alliance family covers high-end to 3* peeps, and mostly everyone dislikes it (we never coordinate for PvP, but we still aim for T100 Alliance wise) and I certainly dislike being hit more than I used to, though as I am a Shark (love this terminology), it’s not really the same. I personally have altered my goals - 1 x 4* per PvP is a drop in the ocean, at 58 4*, so 58 weeks to get one cover in each colour if no more 4* are released, not worth the effort - aiming solely for T10. Sure, I’ll probably not get the end of season CP, but i would rather enjoy myself than get 15 CP.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,967 Chairperson of the Boards
    Falcon PVP I got 8 seeds to start.

    I’ve used the same unboosted 3* team (except Falcon who is uber boosted and a great pair with my favorite 3* duo)- good ole Patch/Gambit.

    Got a lot of wins doing laundry Sunday and before work/ over lunch while bored. 

    Climbed to 35 wins so far. Will probably switch to my Champed boosted 4s to get the last five sometime tonight or tomorrow.

    Weirdly it’s feeling less like a slog now than when the season started, likely because I finished Sim a long time ago and have learned to pace myself better in events. I’ve 40-won every event so far and have been more or less enjoying it.

    The only negative is my season score has tanked because I totally forgot to shield a few times and am like meh... forget it at this point. The season reward difference really won’t make or break my roster. 
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah, I went pretty hardcore early on in Shield Sim trying to get the Rogue cover as fast as possible, and mainly so I wouldn't have to crank out lots of fights in the last few days of the season like past seasons, but then I ended up pulling my 5th green Rogue from a heroic so it may as well just be a 1k iso reward as the final reward.
  • Kahmon
    Kahmon Posts: 625 Critical Contributor
    Ducky forgot to drop the mic at the end of their post.
  • AlexxKats
    AlexxKats Posts: 99 Match Maker
    Ducky also forgot to quote his sources of all that claims regarding devs. 

    Because, if for some reason you speak for them with data, feel free to share, or disclaim it as your own personal position as a "player"
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Ducky said:
    The rockett said:
    Calnexin said:
    smkspy said:

    I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 
    Spot-on.  Every time I (used to) reply to the in-game survey, I say I wouldn't recommend it because it's too difficult for a new player to approach.  And now with your insight, I feel like I shot myself in the foot.  Or at least helped load the gun.
    See I disagree.  Without the community of LINE, I would not be playing anymore.  That is the sole reason I still play because it is great to talk to people across the world and learn new things.  In fact met a few in RL. 
    You may disagree but the MPQ playerbase is immensely larger than the Line community so the things that keep them playing matter a bit more because if they leave it's a bigger loss due to sheer numbers. Your experience with MPQ is so far out of the ordinary for average Joe MPQ'er that it doesn't even make sense to try and compare it. You've turned MPQ into a game of chess while the rest of the MPQ playerbase is playing checkers. If you fail to see that, I'm not sure what else I can tell you. The devs made these changes to engage more players because their surveys evidently told them that PvP was not welcoming to your average player and nothing you say will change that fact. Alienating a segment of the playerbase as large as the non-cooperating, non-Line using MPQ'ers from the Versus mode of MPQ is probably a bad thing to do from the perspective of keeping the game alive. Just sayin'.
    Wow.  I didn't know that the player base was larger than the Line community. I am shocked to hear that.  Thank you for enlightening me. 
    Do you really think I don't know that?  Do you think I do not understand what they are trying to do here?  My main point and still is, removing the CPs from progession is a bad long term move.  This will hurt player development long term.  My Line comment was about me personally and other that have said this many times. I am not talking about how we play the game differently, I could care less about that.  I am talking about removing something that has been in progression since CPs came out and moving to placement. 
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    More covers, more rewards, less frustration and I've saved some hp. It's been pretty positive for me. I wish pve was setup in a similar fashion where you have the full length of the event to get your rewards instead of playing in 24-48 hr subs. So if the time change screwed you up, you got busy with work/family or if your internet went out in the middle of your usual grind then it wouldn't really impact you too much.

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