How do the clubbed baby seals feel?

fanghoul

I find it amusing that people that don't like the PvP changes are so invested in concern trolling that they've invented a new term for their own bad behavior.

Bowgentle

OJSP said:

Seal clubbing is not a new term.

It’s been used in MPQ since the MMR was changed and making it less likely to see weak teams equivalent to seed teams(perhaps even longer than that).

I love the second explanation.

The rockett

This thread is unreal now.  This just show how divided everybody is on this issue.  As I have said many times, this Win based PVP as it is set up, will cause more people to quit.  Removing the 15 CP from progression was a terible move and does not help, It hurts player progression. 
As for HP, if you buy and support the game and are in an ally that is competitive, you will know why spending on shields matter. I had over 150,000 HP after the sale and I use HP on shields, healthpacks and roster slots (currently 213). 
With the hitting a weaker team, last pvp I hit one person 10-15 times in a row.   Needed my 40 wins and don't feel bad one bit about it.  This is what this has come to.  

[Deleted User]

Do you think that person even cares?  Chances are they are in it for progression and dont give a damn.

It could have been me, honestly I wouldnt notice.  I never pay attention to names etc when playing PVP.

You are, I would guess, one of a small number.  IE, the level you play at, your goals etc - sounds like its quite high end and therefore you are in a minority.

I believe you when you say people will leave, as I assume you are talking about you and your peers, and it sounds as though PVP changes just dont work for that group.

BUT... it is a minority.  As major an impact it is to you, it doesnt necessarily follow its like that for all or even most.

Ive made 40 wins in every event and cleared Simulator a couple of weeks back.  Im enjoying it.  And I am nowhere near the level or ambition you play at.  I suspect Im in more of a majority...

Starfury

sh81 said:

BUT... it is a minority.  As major an impact it is to you, it doesnt necessarily follow its like that for all or even most.

Minority of players, sure.

Minority of game revenue, I'm not so sure.

The rockett

This is what you are missing.  The top 50 ally's in PVP, I would would be willing to bet that this change will make at least 10% of them quit the game/ pve only after the season  (100 people) . I know of at least 15 people already that have done this.  Some of these are 1-2 Starks a season. If you don't think this will have an impact and a negative one, I just don't know what to say. 

[Deleted User]

The rockett said:

This is what you are missing.  The top 50 ally's in PVP, I would would be willing to bet that this change will make at least 10% of them quit the game/ pve only after the season  (100 people) . I know of at least 15 people already that have done this.  Some of these are 1-2 Starks a season. If you don't think this will have an impact and a negative one, I just don't know what to say. 

Your complaint was about play, not about the games income.

Perhaps income will be affected, I dont know.  If it is I assume things will be done to rectify it.

And those things will no doubt split people again.

Thats how it works, isnt it?

As it is, these changes were made for a reason and with more insight than either of us have.  

It seems lower end players are much more engaged, and Id suggest they are greater in number, perhaps this is better in the games longer term interest?

Calnexin

Sorry, previous post was in the wrong thread.

For this one - The 40 win total has basically tanked my season placement.  Since there is no "final push" anymore, I haven't really been shielding that much.  And since I'm so far behind, I'm not paying attention to slice endings and generally getting beaten back to 400-500 points, where I presumably drop off MMR of those who can beat me easily.

I'm currently sitting somewhere around 450.  I'm accustomed to being somewhere around 120-150.  It hasn't seemed to impact my alliance quite as much, but we're still suffering.  We'd been on a steady climb with our best finish ~ 115 before the system, now we've dropped to more like 180-220 on average.

AlexxKats

sh81 said:

The rockett said:

This is what you are missing.  The top 50 ally's in PVP, I would would be willing to bet that this change will make at least 10% of them quit the game/ pve only after the season  (100 people) . I know of at least 15 people already that have done this.  Some of these are 1-2 Starks a season. If you don't think this will have an impact and a negative one, I just don't know what to say. 

Your complaint was about play, not about the games income.

Perhaps income will be affected, I dont know.  If it is I assume things will be done to rectify it.

And those things will no doubt split people again.

Thats how it works, isnt it?

As it is, these changes were made for a reason and with more insight than either of us have.  

It seems lower end players are much more engaged, and Id suggest they are greater in number, perhaps this is better in the games longer term interest?

Uhhh nope. No. When you say more engaged, you mean you'll just do more fights. no shields because that's the target group you belong to. So i'd guess no competitive pve even. So no healthpacks. Which means literally, that it's a quality of life to engage more people that still won't help the game survive. Which in part is a stupid point to make.

On the Other hand you have the top alliances in the game cutting down on play time (at a probable 10%), major spenders/supporters of the game turning to no more buys, which hurts the game.

Which you would know, if you read the forums. Or talked with other players in LINE or Discord.

Tiggida

We'll see the true effects of the change next season. The numbers the devs see now will be completely skewed when it comes to the vets because a lot of people cracked their hoards for gambit and probably played a bit more because they wanted to take their shiny new toys for a test spin. A good chunk of those people probably also played more to get ISO to cover all the extra covers they had dying on the vine after cracking their hoards. Add to that the $2 / 7CP glitch And people spending to chase gambit and revenue probably got a bit of a bump. So to them it may look like spending and play time are up. I've already seen quite a few people that have been playing for years quit/go super casual and even more are on the verge of quitting after this season. There have been many compromises suggested that wouldn't made everyone happy. The more I read comments here I think a pts based systems with checkpoints would've been the best solution. Basically an automatic infinite shield at certain pt thresholds.  I'm not sure comprising a player base that has been loyal and supported the game for 3-4 years, that previously had no plans to leave anytime soon, is such a great idea. Certain changes will always alienate one part of the player base over the other, but I think they swung and missed on an opportunity where they could've hit a grand slam on this one.  

[Deleted User]

AlexxKats said:

sh81 said:

The rockett said:

This is what you are missing.  The top 50 ally's in PVP, I would would be willing to bet that this change will make at least 10% of them quit the game/ pve only after the season  (100 people) . I know of at least 15 people already that have done this.  Some of these are 1-2 Starks a season. If you don't think this will have an impact and a negative one, I just don't know what to say. 

Your complaint was about play, not about the games income.

Perhaps income will be affected, I dont know.  If it is I assume things will be done to rectify it.

And those things will no doubt split people again.

Thats how it works, isnt it?

As it is, these changes were made for a reason and with more insight than either of us have.  

It seems lower end players are much more engaged, and Id suggest they are greater in number, perhaps this is better in the games longer term interest?

Uhhh nope. No. When you say more engaged, you mean you'll just do more fights. no shields because that's the target group you belong to. So i'd guess no competitive pve even. So no healthpacks. Which means literally, that it's a quality of life to engage more people that still won't help the game survive. Which in part is a stupid point to make.

On the Other hand you have the top alliances in the game cutting down on play time (at a probable 10%), major spenders/supporters of the game turning to no more buys, which hurts the game.

Which you would know, if you read the forums. Or talked with other players in LINE or Discord.

I know of many, many players that dont even bother with PVP because it was inaccesible to them.  Just as there were many (myself included) that were trying their best but making little progress. 

These people ALL now have the ability to reach the progression rewards, which is regular access to a 4* which pre-change was not reliably available.

When I say "more engaged", perhaps "more invovled" is a better term.  I speculate there will be more people playing PVP since the win based change.

You are right, I dont shield, I dont need to.  The point has been made repeatedly, that sales come from more than just health packs.  Perhaps people wanting to roster their shinny new 4* will help mitigate the HP sales?  Who knows.  Its pretty stupid to assume thats all the game survives on, isnt it?

I do read the forums.  Ive no interest in Line or Discord, but thanks to the like of you I get told what happens on there anyway. 

Im well aware top end players are throwing their toys out of the pram.  It is yet to be seen whether or not they will follow through on their warnings.  And it is a certainty the developers would have considered their survival when making changes.

So its somewhat amusing to be told how wrong I am by someone who clearly doesnt actually know better themselves.

[Deleted User]

Tiggida said:

We'll see the true effects of the change next season. The numbers the devs see now will be completely skewed when it comes to the vets because a lot of people cracked their hoards for gambit and probably played a bit more because they wanted to take their shiny new toys for a test spin. A good chunk of those people probably also played more to get ISO to cover all the extra covers they had dying on the vine after cracking their hoards. Add to that the $2 / 7CP glitch And people spending to chase gambit and revenue probably got a bit of a bump. So to them it may look like spending and play time are up. I've already seen quite a few people that have been playing for years quit/go super casual and even more are on the verge of quitting after this season. There have been many compromises suggested that wouldn't made everyone happy. The more I read comments here I think a pts based systems with checkpoints would've been the best solution. Basically an automatic infinite shield at certain pt thresholds.  I'm not sure comprising a player base that has been loyal and supported the game for 3-4 years, that previously had no plans to leave anytime soon, is such a great idea. Certain changes will always alienate one part of the player base over the other, but I think they swung and missed on an opportunity where they could've hit a grand slam on this one.  

You forget the novelty value as well.  PVE has become harder and harder, I think there will be a lot of PVE players migrating over to PVP to have a try now they know they arent going to get ground into the dirt.

Its a new thing, people will want to have a go.

Chances are it will be a few cycles before "true" insights can be found.


And, by then, will all those players that went casual/gave up in protest have stayed away?  Someone mentioned sunk cost earlier - its a great point - those in the 5*/high end game have put a lot in and its a lot to walk away from...

AlexxKats

from all the comments i see you reply to daily, i highly doubt that you do man. No offence meant, but you're highly clueless to what happens in the high end game part of the game, to the most part.

Either way, this isn't the place of that discussion, as this topic is about the feelings of the "seals".

Which is a bad point that backfired, as they obviously don't care about getting hit, because we either hit them for 1 point, or can't queue them at all because of the dreaded MMR. This is a topic even i would lock. 

[Deleted User]

I know exactly what its like at my level, and being on the forum am well aware of many players in similar position that share similar opinions, so I am fairly confident in my comments on things at that level. I have never claimed any in depth knowledge of the high end game, not once. I have speculated, offered opinion, and always prefaced such comments so they arent taken out of context. So Im not entirely sure what your point is.

corytutor

I think he was trying to say give it a rest

[Deleted User]

Give what a rest?

AlexxKats

sh81 said:

I know exactly what its like at my level, and being on the forum am well aware of many players in similar position that share similar opinions, so I am fairly confident in my comments on things at that level. I have never claimed any in depth knowledge of the high end game, not once. I have speculated, offered opinion, and always prefaced such comments so they arent taken out of context. So Im not entirely sure what your point is.

please, do explain that many and how that coincides with that epic proportion of "fairly confidence" at your level of playstyle.

Because i see talks with over 500 (it's over 9000!!!) people everyday, plus forums, plus the occasional discord (100?) scan and i know i can't represent them all, even if i've been through stages of this game where you haven't touched ground yet or experienced at all

[Deleted User]

Im not the one claiming to know it all, am I?

Ive claimed, consistently, only to know my level of the game and the effect the changes have had here.  

And Ive offered my opinion on other aspects - recognising its not coming from a place of authority.

Its quite funny how much of an issue that seems to present for some.

AlexxKats

It becomes an issue when developers take that info as something set in stone. So your actual ignorance and bliss on a laid back casual 4* transitioner that still feels he knows the changes that it had there, is at the better part short sighted.

Funny? well, let's just hope it will still be funny when it happens to a game where you actually spend more time in it than it's forum

smkspy

DyingLegend said:

I've been averaging the same placement rewards for same effort with less stress. All is good. 

Pretty much this for me. I start the event at the beginning get 10-15 wins throughout the first day. Hit back on defeats and hope for an easy back and forth with someone. Second day do the same and end up with 40 wins. I never shield until I hit 40 wins and generally place top 50 like I had been under the old system where getting the 4 star was either a pure luck straight run or series of wasted hp in shield hops. 

Feels like I'm only playing more simply because I can hit 40 wins every event now.

Edit: And I know exactly what it took to achieve high scores in the old system...i didn't like it and it too convoluted for a mobile game so didn't engage in it. Funny thing is, I don't remember baby seals starting so many threads about the great advantages sharks got when pve was completely opened to the disadvantage of seals.