How do the clubbed baby seals feel?

[Deleted User]

AlexxKats said:

It becomes an issue when developers take that info as something set in stone. So your actual ignorance and bliss on a laid back casual 4* transitioner that still feels he knows the changes that it had there, is at the better part short sighted.

Funny? well, let's just hope it will still be funny when it happens to a game where you actually spend more time in it than it's forum

What is short sighted is how much you assume to know about me, my experience and knowledge of the game.  As well as my participation in playing or on the forum.

But keep going, its fun.

The rockett

What I think it is funny to think that the high end players don't know exactly where you are.  Remember we had to go through this as well way before CPs were around, champing was around, 5* were around and when you could buy covers with HP and truly whale a char.  We dealt with the scoring system that is was and we progressed through it.  It just seems that Demi/D3 want to listen to the newer players more than the Vets that have been around through all of these changes and value their thoughts more than the people that supported the game and yes I think F2P players opinions should be taken less then the people that support the game. 

[Deleted User]

The rockett said:

What I think it is funny to think that the high end players don't know exactly where you are.  Remember we had to go through this as well way before CPs were around, champing was around, 5* were around and when you could buy covers with HP and truly whale a char.  We dealt with the scoring system that is was and we progressed through it.  It just seems that Demi/D3 want to listen to the newer players more than the Vets that have been around through all of these changes and value their thoughts more than the people that supported the game and yes I think F2P players opinions should be taken less then the people that support the game. 

If you havent gone through it recently, then maybe you dont know what its like?

You went through under a different meta, different "rules".  If it was a while back, it would have also been with far fewer characters to actually roster and champ.

The game is constantly in flux, its not necessarily true that your experience of 4* transition/4-5* game is anything like somebody going through it now.

Personally I think there is a balance to be struck.

If a game only really suits the vets then it closes itself off to new players wanting to commit to it.  It is left ONLY with those vets.

If a game just works in favour of newbs, itll lose its vets.  And it seems many are convinced the very survival of the game depends on them.

I always think, "Why not suit everyone?".  I would have preferred a case where the vets didnt feel so marginalised but he newbs actually could get involved.

Quite what that looks like I dont know.  

I like the win based approach.  I still dislike MMR.  I think the required wins is too high.  I wouldnt have removed CP from progression.  I quite like the suggestions of points/win hybrid but dont know how practical it is.

I do think PVP needed changing though.

And now that it has been changed, hopefully with some fine tuning everyone will be happy.

smkspy

Every f2p player is a potential pay player and every pay player is a potential whale. Very few of us started this game with the mindset of having to pay to advance, but somewhere along the way choose to do so for a variety of reasons. 

I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 

BoyWonder1914

If you play/played PVP at a high-level, then you might as well just accept that you're speaking a completely different language to someone who's never understood it. To someone who never cared about placement in the old system, these people aren't "giving up" anything with this new style of progression. They now have 2 and half days to get something that they could never get before, as long as they play more than they ever have. They'd have never bothered with 40 wins in the old system either, but it's somehow not a slog now because they know they'll get a participation prize.....even though it's still 40 wins.  

To people who did care about placement, we used to get progression rewards practically as a gravy on the way to our goals. Placement and progression went almost hand-in-hand: getting 900 for the 4-star cover was almost a guaranteed t25, and getting 1200 for the CP was almost a guaranteed t10, even t5 if you joined a late enough flip. Therefore someone who never attained these levels before will also never understand the frustration of getting to 900 points after 25 wins with no cover waiting on you, or getting to 1200 points after 36 wins, with no cover OR CP waiting on you. It's like explaining the frustration of being a runner-up in a contest to someone who just showed up for the free refreshments. 

Regardless of those of us who chase placement being in the minority simply by definition (10-25 out of every 500), we are not in the minority as those who feel the tax that this has taken on our free time, and commitment to the game. The people who don't realize that this negatively impacts them as their roster continues to develop will learn the hard way in due time, if not already, halfway through the season as event after event keeps demanding of them another 40. Whatever the actual statistics may be in terms of who's playing more or less, the reduction in spending on shields and engagement from higher level rosters will speak at volumes that can't be ignored. 

Tiggida

sh81 said:

Tiggida said:

We'll see the true effects of the change next season. The numbers the devs see now will be completely skewed when it comes to the vets because a lot of people cracked their hoards for gambit and probably played a bit more because they wanted to take their shiny new toys for a test spin. A good chunk of those people probably also played more to get ISO to cover all the extra covers they had dying on the vine after cracking their hoards. Add to that the $2 / 7CP glitch And people spending to chase gambit and revenue probably got a bit of a bump. So to them it may look like spending and play time are up. I've already seen quite a few people that have been playing for years quit/go super casual and even more are on the verge of quitting after this season. There have been many compromises suggested that wouldn't made everyone happy. The more I read comments here I think a pts based systems with checkpoints would've been the best solution. Basically an automatic infinite shield at certain pt thresholds.  I'm not sure comprising a player base that has been loyal and supported the game for 3-4 years, that previously had no plans to leave anytime soon, is such a great idea. Certain changes will always alienate one part of the player base over the other, but I think they swung and missed on an opportunity where they could've hit a grand slam on this one.  

You forget the novelty value as well.  PVE has become harder and harder, I think there will be a lot of PVE players migrating over to PVP to have a try now they know they arent going to get ground into the dirt.

Its a new thing, people will want to have a go.

Chances are it will be a few cycles before "true" insights can be found.


And, by then, will all those players that went casual/gave up in protest have stayed away?  Someone mentioned sunk cost earlier - its a great point - those in the 5*/high end game have put a lot in and its a lot to walk away from...

The sunk cost becomes irrelevant to most people when they mentally and physically just don't want to do it anymore. 40 matches at the 5* level is no joke. It's not a minor bump in time commitment, it's huge. Burnout in mpq has always left casualties in its waste as long as I've been playing. Fom my experience, it's the main reason people have quit. Some people have higher tolerances for it than others, and I think this is pushing more people to that limit than I've personally seen so far. I can see and appreciate both sides of these arguments. Remember, we were where you are now and I'm sure most people would've loved this change when they were at your point in the game if they're being honest. They definitely needed to throw you guys a bone. I'm just not sure that the risk in potentially sacrificing the (so far) most loyal  (and probably supportive) portion of your player base, when they could've satisfied all, was the best decision. Only time will tell. 

smkspy

Isn't that the same argument sharks used about pve for ages though? 

In the end, a forum for dedicated players is always going to cheer changes that affect them positively and boo-hoo negatibe changes depending on where they are at in their game.

The rockett

smkspy said:

Every f2p player is a potential pay player and every pay player is a potential whale. Very few of us started this game with the mindset of having to pay to advance, but somewhere along the way choose to do so for a variety of reasons. 

Your correct.  Maybe I should have worked that different but after seeing all of these posts saying I will never buy anything and then loving the new system that a lot of people have spent money on there roster and now walking about is getting very irritating.   

[Deleted User]

Can you fight for placment without progression?

There is a definite theme coming through in a lot of posts Im reading.

There are those like me that "just play" and as a result end up getting the rewards at lower point thresholds.  I dont care about the match points, only the match, so it follows..

Then there are those saying "I got 900 and not even the event token" - clearly targetting high value matches as if it was the old game.

Could you still play for placement without going for 40 wins?

I realise you would sacrifice some rewards, though Im seen posts kind of complacent about the prog rewards anyway, if top 10 is all that matters can you not still go for it?

The rockett

Depends on the slice, level and bracket.  Remember, if you choose a lower bracket, lets say 6 you are giving up a lot of rewards for top 10.  Not only personal but ally rewards too.  This is why I have been tracking everything in S4 since that is where I play and really never leave is to show how many people have lost the CPs with moving to placement from progression. 

acescracked

sh81 said:

Im not the one claiming to know it all, am I?

Ive claimed, consistently, only to know my level of the game and the effect the changes have had here.  

And Ive offered my opinion on other aspects - recognising its not coming from a place of authority.

Its quite funny how much of an issue that seems to present for some.

Can you stop trolling please?

smkspy

The rockett said:

smkspy said:

Every f2p player is a potential pay player and every pay player is a potential whale. Very few of us started this game with the mindset of having to pay to advance, but somewhere along the way choose to do so for a variety of reasons. 

Your correct.  Maybe I should have worked that different but after seeing all of these posts saying I will never buy anything and then loving the new system that a lot of people have spent money on there roster and now walking about is getting very irritating.   

I'm seeing people say they never buy or will shields, but not really seeing a lot of "never buy anything" comments imo.

I buy VIP and the occasional sale usually around celebration events, but never have and will never buy for shields. How I did spend more in my first year buying for roster spots. 

I do like the new system, but it does need some work. Milestones would have been a much better and simpler change, but I remember sharks here even complaining against that change. Well, devs went full extreme on changes, maybe partially, on the community's rejection of just about every proposed change.

Talestummy

What are sharks?

smkspy

Talestummy said:

What are sharks?

What I call 5 star rosters, since sharks are natural predator of seals IRL. Whales too, but not every 5 star roster is a whale.

Tiggida

sh81 said:

Can you fight for placment without progression?

There is a definite theme coming through in a lot of posts Im reading.

There are those like me that "just play" and as a result end up getting the rewards at lower point thresholds.  I dont care about the match points, only the match, so it follows..

Then there are those saying "I got 900 and not even the event token" - clearly targetting high value matches as if it was the old game.

Could you still play for placement without going for 40 wins?

I realise you would sacrifice some rewards, though Im seen posts kind of complacent about the prog rewards anyway, if top 10 is all that matters can you not still go for it?

That is what I'm doing. I'm definitely playing a lot less than I was before, but yet I'm starting to feel the burnout coming. The human brain is funny that way when tasks become less rewarding.  I think arguing about why one side is right and the other isn't is silly because both sides are right and justified for where they are in the game.  At the end of the day, this is a mobile match 3 game and I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it lol. 

Calnexin

smkspy said:

I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 

Spot-on.  Every time I (used to) reply to the in-game survey, I say I wouldn't recommend it because it's too difficult for a new player to approach.  And now with your insight, I feel like I shot myself in the foot.  Or at least helped load the gun.

The rockett

Calnexin said:

smkspy said:

I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 

Spot-on.  Every time I (used to) reply to the in-game survey, I say I wouldn't recommend it because it's too difficult for a new player to approach.  And now with your insight, I feel like I shot myself in the foot.  Or at least helped load the gun.

See I disagree.  Without the community of LINE, I would not be playing anymore.  That is the sole reason I still play because it is great to talk to people across the world and learn new things.  In fact met a few in RL. 

bluewolf

Calnexin said:

smkspy said:

I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 

Spot-on.  Every time I (used to) reply to the in-game survey, I say I wouldn't recommend it because it's too difficult for a new player to approach.  And now with your insight, I feel like I shot myself in the foot.  Or at least helped load the gun.

The easier 4* only partially helps a new player. It is about 16 weeks between 4*s being available in PVP and growing.  3 covers a year is a drop in the bucket. A new player is about 141 characters behind on day 1.

Calnexin

bluewolf said:

Calnexin said:

smkspy said:

I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 

Spot-on.  Every time I (used to) reply to the in-game survey, I say I wouldn't recommend it because it's too difficult for a new player to approach.  And now with your insight, I feel like I shot myself in the foot.  Or at least helped load the gun.

The easier 4* only partially helps a new player. It is about 16 weeks between 4*s being available in PVP and growing.  3 covers a year is a drop in the bucket. A new player is about 141 characters behind on day 1.

The new format extends help further than just the 4*, though.  Even with no shot at placement, a 2-3* can viably get all the rewards it might not have been able to, including the 10 cp, relatively large Iso prize (for those tiers), etc.  Any nascent roster climbing past 300 or so would instantly be bludgeoned to nothing in points-based, but in wins-based they can keep going.  Probably faster than 4 and 5* rosters can.  If my PvP matches were all similar to the 2* DDQ nodes I might not mind the 40 win number as much.

tiomono

Calnexin said:

smkspy said:

I feel the PvP changes are a direction result of an established community-based game becoming so large that it tends to scare away new players more than it attracts them. 

Spot-on.  Every time I (used to) reply to the in-game survey, I say I wouldn't recommend it because it's too difficult for a new player to approach.  And now with your insight, I feel like I shot myself in the foot.  Or at least helped load the gun.

This is it right here. Higher tier rosters griping that it's harder now, when they have spent years saying they would not recommend the game to new players because they would not be able to progress. Those surveys were a joke on these forums with people always putting low numbers to vent their anger.

Now we are dealing with the devs attempting to make the game more accessible for newcomers.