Xenoberyll said: broll said: Xenoberyll said: That’s reasoning the 40 wins are a realistic number. It isn’t. 900/40 means 22.5 points per match. I average more than twice that for my matches and 20 wins is what i need at most for reaching the 900 points mark. I don’t need 40 matches to reach 1200 even with attacks coming in. That math only works if you assume 0 losses. It's easy to get -100 or -200 in a very short time the higher you go (sometimes minutes). It's those defensive losses that keep people rising much above a certain level (unless the go nuts with shields). I mentioned attacks. They still don’t make me take 40 matches till 1200 points. I know that others may have it harder in that regard but i don’t think my experience is exotic either. There’s a lot of room between 20 and 40... Also it doesn’t adress my biggest gripe, the loss of the CP reward.
broll said: Xenoberyll said: That’s reasoning the 40 wins are a realistic number. It isn’t. 900/40 means 22.5 points per match. I average more than twice that for my matches and 20 wins is what i need at most for reaching the 900 points mark. I don’t need 40 matches to reach 1200 even with attacks coming in. That math only works if you assume 0 losses. It's easy to get -100 or -200 in a very short time the higher you go (sometimes minutes). It's those defensive losses that keep people rising much above a certain level (unless the go nuts with shields).
Xenoberyll said: That’s reasoning the 40 wins are a realistic number. It isn’t. 900/40 means 22.5 points per match. I average more than twice that for my matches and 20 wins is what i need at most for reaching the 900 points mark. I don’t need 40 matches to reach 1200 even with attacks coming in.
broll said: Milk Jugz said: Pants1000 said: Vhailorx said: Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping. First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.Ill give you a real world example. Event starts, you join, play a few matches. Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points. Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work. Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work. Get home, and play some more.Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression. Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*. Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense. And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200. If you only care about progression. I.e. playing to 900 points for the 4* and then putting the game down, then pvp was already basically play when you want. It's pretty unusal to take hits below 500-600 or so. So the first part of any climb is absolutely play when you want. Spend 30ish minutes at your convenience climbing to 600ish. The riskier part of climbing to 900 is 600-900. Getting 300-ish points takes 5-6 matches (unless you punch down with futile 20 point matches). 5 or 6 matches takes about 20-25 minutes. So that is basically the only requirement for 900 in the old system: at some point during last 48 hours of an event (preferrably not during the last couple of hours) you must spent 20-25 minutes to rush from 600 to 900. That does't seem like an particularly strict schedule to me. Especially not compared to an alternative that is: at any time the 60 hours of each pvp event you must spent approximately 140 minutes playing 40 matches.It's not some vast quality of life improvement for players. It's a modest-to-significant improvement for some players and a modest-to-significant steo backwards for others. Your experience is that of a well-developed 5* roster who uses shield check rooms. What you described is not true for the vast majority. Unusual to take hits below 500-600? LOL! It depends on the boosted characters, but if I push to 500-600 and don't shield, I'll usually be hit back to 300-400 in a couple hours. I've hit 575 and been hit back below 250 on multiple occasions.20-25 minutes to run from 600-900? Again, that's not the case for most people. Many people spend much longer than that, often not making it because they get hit repeatedly during the process.Getting to 875, winning another match, but getting hit for -100 in the process is the most frustrating thing that happens in this game. This change removes that pain point, which is why I like it.I fully support making the CP more attainable for the top players. I think it's dumb to have t10 get it in CL6-8. Give constructive feedback and hopefully the devs will make adjustments/compromises for everyone. Giving it to t50 in CL9 seems like the most likely scenario. I don't have a well developed 5* roster and I don't use any shield check rooms. I hit the targets the game presents to me. I'll concede I skip a lot of low point targets and I skip alliance mates. I don't have an issue hitting 1200. Again, no coordination, no shield checks, just skip low point targets and alliance mates. I do it in less than 40 wins and I am guaranteed the 15 cp at the end. You don't have a 'developed 5* roster' but you have have 4 of them champed. From my understanding once you get your foot in the door of 3 5* champs 900 becomes a breeze and 1200 is usually relatively easy. All this shows is how the level of your roster controls how far you can progress. That's somewhat true in the new meta, but while it's definitely harder for people higher up on the totem poll than it was, it's still possible. It wasn't possible for 2*/3* player before. Period. Now I totally think they need to work on fixing it so that it's not so much harder for vets than newer, that's pretty backwards, but accessible to all is good.I wonder if accessibility is the key. One of the major problems in this game is dilution and the length of the roster progression path. This change will help to lighten 4* progression path getting new players into 4* land, which seems to be the main focus of the devs, faster. A lot of effort right now seems to focused on getting rosters to improve faster: incentivizing 5*s for the first time, focusing Latest 5*s over old, 4* featured rates (and the vaulting fiasco), Shield Training event trying to strong arm people into champing or near champing 4* within a week of release.... and now this.
Milk Jugz said: Pants1000 said: Vhailorx said: Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping. First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.Ill give you a real world example. Event starts, you join, play a few matches. Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points. Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work. Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work. Get home, and play some more.Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression. Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*. Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense. And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200. If you only care about progression. I.e. playing to 900 points for the 4* and then putting the game down, then pvp was already basically play when you want. It's pretty unusal to take hits below 500-600 or so. So the first part of any climb is absolutely play when you want. Spend 30ish minutes at your convenience climbing to 600ish. The riskier part of climbing to 900 is 600-900. Getting 300-ish points takes 5-6 matches (unless you punch down with futile 20 point matches). 5 or 6 matches takes about 20-25 minutes. So that is basically the only requirement for 900 in the old system: at some point during last 48 hours of an event (preferrably not during the last couple of hours) you must spent 20-25 minutes to rush from 600 to 900. That does't seem like an particularly strict schedule to me. Especially not compared to an alternative that is: at any time the 60 hours of each pvp event you must spent approximately 140 minutes playing 40 matches.It's not some vast quality of life improvement for players. It's a modest-to-significant improvement for some players and a modest-to-significant steo backwards for others. Your experience is that of a well-developed 5* roster who uses shield check rooms. What you described is not true for the vast majority. Unusual to take hits below 500-600? LOL! It depends on the boosted characters, but if I push to 500-600 and don't shield, I'll usually be hit back to 300-400 in a couple hours. I've hit 575 and been hit back below 250 on multiple occasions.20-25 minutes to run from 600-900? Again, that's not the case for most people. Many people spend much longer than that, often not making it because they get hit repeatedly during the process.Getting to 875, winning another match, but getting hit for -100 in the process is the most frustrating thing that happens in this game. This change removes that pain point, which is why I like it.I fully support making the CP more attainable for the top players. I think it's dumb to have t10 get it in CL6-8. Give constructive feedback and hopefully the devs will make adjustments/compromises for everyone. Giving it to t50 in CL9 seems like the most likely scenario. I don't have a well developed 5* roster and I don't use any shield check rooms. I hit the targets the game presents to me. I'll concede I skip a lot of low point targets and I skip alliance mates. I don't have an issue hitting 1200. Again, no coordination, no shield checks, just skip low point targets and alliance mates. I do it in less than 40 wins and I am guaranteed the 15 cp at the end.
Pants1000 said: Vhailorx said: Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping. First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.Ill give you a real world example. Event starts, you join, play a few matches. Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points. Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work. Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work. Get home, and play some more.Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression. Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*. Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense. And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200. If you only care about progression. I.e. playing to 900 points for the 4* and then putting the game down, then pvp was already basically play when you want. It's pretty unusal to take hits below 500-600 or so. So the first part of any climb is absolutely play when you want. Spend 30ish minutes at your convenience climbing to 600ish. The riskier part of climbing to 900 is 600-900. Getting 300-ish points takes 5-6 matches (unless you punch down with futile 20 point matches). 5 or 6 matches takes about 20-25 minutes. So that is basically the only requirement for 900 in the old system: at some point during last 48 hours of an event (preferrably not during the last couple of hours) you must spent 20-25 minutes to rush from 600 to 900. That does't seem like an particularly strict schedule to me. Especially not compared to an alternative that is: at any time the 60 hours of each pvp event you must spent approximately 140 minutes playing 40 matches.It's not some vast quality of life improvement for players. It's a modest-to-significant improvement for some players and a modest-to-significant steo backwards for others. Your experience is that of a well-developed 5* roster who uses shield check rooms. What you described is not true for the vast majority. Unusual to take hits below 500-600? LOL! It depends on the boosted characters, but if I push to 500-600 and don't shield, I'll usually be hit back to 300-400 in a couple hours. I've hit 575 and been hit back below 250 on multiple occasions.20-25 minutes to run from 600-900? Again, that's not the case for most people. Many people spend much longer than that, often not making it because they get hit repeatedly during the process.Getting to 875, winning another match, but getting hit for -100 in the process is the most frustrating thing that happens in this game. This change removes that pain point, which is why I like it.I fully support making the CP more attainable for the top players. I think it's dumb to have t10 get it in CL6-8. Give constructive feedback and hopefully the devs will make adjustments/compromises for everyone. Giving it to t50 in CL9 seems like the most likely scenario.
Vhailorx said: Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping. First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.Ill give you a real world example. Event starts, you join, play a few matches. Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points. Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work. Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work. Get home, and play some more.Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression. Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*. Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense. And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200. If you only care about progression. I.e. playing to 900 points for the 4* and then putting the game down, then pvp was already basically play when you want. It's pretty unusal to take hits below 500-600 or so. So the first part of any climb is absolutely play when you want. Spend 30ish minutes at your convenience climbing to 600ish. The riskier part of climbing to 900 is 600-900. Getting 300-ish points takes 5-6 matches (unless you punch down with futile 20 point matches). 5 or 6 matches takes about 20-25 minutes. So that is basically the only requirement for 900 in the old system: at some point during last 48 hours of an event (preferrably not during the last couple of hours) you must spent 20-25 minutes to rush from 600 to 900. That does't seem like an particularly strict schedule to me. Especially not compared to an alternative that is: at any time the 60 hours of each pvp event you must spent approximately 140 minutes playing 40 matches.It's not some vast quality of life improvement for players. It's a modest-to-significant improvement for some players and a modest-to-significant steo backwards for others.
Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping. First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.Ill give you a real world example. Event starts, you join, play a few matches. Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points. Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work. Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work. Get home, and play some more.Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression. Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*. Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense. And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200.
Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping.
Brigby said: Hi Everyone. I'm sorry I was only able to post this information late in the evening. I'll be sure to be in this thread tomorrow morning (9am PDT), but if you have any questions or comments then please post them below and I will be sure to answer them then. Thank you for understanding!
corytutor said: I have 6 champed 5s and wouldnt consider my roster a top roster. Not at all.
corytutor said: I understand theres many below me. Theres also many above me. And to clarify i didnt say i wasnt in the top tier of players. Im simply saying 3 to 6 champs isnt a top roster.
Brigby said: I'm afraid my original comment may have appeared a bit disengenuous. The original reason for this implementation was because the developers determined there would actually be more players that achieved the CP reward if put in placement, than if they tried to acquire it in progression.The reason I said that I didn't know the exact reasoning in the above comment, was more so that I wanted to reaffirm with the developers if this was still the case, after reviewing the results of the test. I apologize for the confusion.
broll said: corytutor said: I understand theres many below me. Theres also many above me. And to clarify i didnt say i wasnt in the top tier of players. Im simply saying 3 to 6 champs isnt a top roster. What the tinykitty do you mean by top roster if not top tier? Do you mean you roster is hidden in a warehouse somewhere along with the ark of the covenant?
Talus9952 said: You're kidding right? Wins based progression provides flexibility? How so? Explain how that works? We have to win more matches to make progression. You can't start later coz you can't make the 40 wins. What exactly is flexible about this?
corytutor said: broll said: corytutor said: I understand theres many below me. Theres also many above me. And to clarify i didnt say i wasnt in the top tier of players. Im simply saying 3 to 6 champs isnt a top roster. What the tinykitty do you mean by top roster if not top tier? Do you mean you roster is hidden in a warehouse somewhere along with the ark of the covenant? LololololIm further than 90% of players give or take. But of that top 5 or 10 % in which i reside, im at the low end of the scale. Just on my team alone theres 17 guys with better rosters. Perhaps more. Not one of them is above 500. So yes. My roster is top tier. But bottom end top tier. Something like that.
corytutor said:
broll said: corytutor said: I understand theres many below me. Theres also many above me. And to clarify i didnt say i wasnt in the top tier of players. Im simply saying 3 to 6 champs isnt a top roster. What the tinykitty do you mean by top roster if not top tier? Do you mean you roster is hidden in a warehouse somewhere along with the ark of the covenant? LololololIm further than 90% of players give or take. But of that top 5 or 10 % in which i reside, im at the low end of the scale. Just on my team alone theres 17 guys with better rosters. Perhaps more. Not one of them is above 500. So yes. My roster is top tier. But bottom end top tier. Something like that.
huktonfonix said: @Brigby While I personally hate the "wins-based" progression, I understand the drive for it. As someone who places in the top 5 of CL8 every PVP event, I understand that I represent a tiny minority of the player base and that for the vast majority being able to progress toward PvP rewards without any fear of losing progress is a very welcome change. Heck, I probably would have welcomed it myself a year and a half ago.That said, I think the new system is poorly-executed. There HAS to be a better way to satisfy the people who want to earn rewards without fearing defensive losses.The problem, as I see it, is that you've essentially split each PvP event into two entirely different games (placement and progression) with different and even competing objectives. As a player, it is confusing enough trying to figure out how best to navigate this structure myself, and even moreso trying to figure out what the heck my opponents working toward.I feel like I'm standing in the middle of the Oakland Coliseum with A's and Raiders games happening on the field simultaneously, and players switching back and forth between the two games on a whim. I barely know which ball to try to catch myself, let alone what the players around me are going to do, and there is no clear direction to win the placement game. You've turned PvP into a joyless game of Calvinball.
Mustache1 said: huktonfonix said: @Brigby While I personally hate the "wins-based" progression, I understand the drive for it. As someone who places in the top 5 of CL8 every PVP event, I understand that I represent a tiny minority of the player base and that for the vast majority being able to progress toward PvP rewards without any fear of losing progress is a very welcome change. Heck, I probably would have welcomed it myself a year and a half ago.That said, I think the new system is poorly-executed. There HAS to be a better way to satisfy the people who want to earn rewards without fearing defensive losses.The problem, as I see it, is that you've essentially split each PvP event into two entirely different games (placement and progression) with different and even competing objectives. As a player, it is confusing enough trying to figure out how best to navigate this structure myself, and even moreso trying to figure out what the heck my opponents working toward.I feel like I'm standing in the middle of the Oakland Coliseum with A's and Raiders games happening on the field simultaneously, and players switching back and forth between the two games on a whim. I barely know which ball to try to catch myself, let alone what the players around me are going to do, and there is no clear direction to win the placement game. You've turned PvP into a joyless game of Calvinball. YES. This is the problem. Cp and all like issues aside this is the problem that I see as someone who loved pvp the way it was. You are fundamentally changing pvp. It is now a totally different game. Win based game play is tantamount to pve+. Progression (t10 anyway) will be more cut throat and the masses will have to just accept hitting weaker rosters 40x for 1 4* cover and be content with it. There is no risk. Before you didn't want to get hit so you had to be strategic. Now hits literally mean nothing unless you are someone who can legitimately make it to top 10. I hate pve because it's mindless. You have taken the only strategy left in this "puzzle" game away.