Time Gem Season Updates *Updated (10/19/17)

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Comments

  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    Philly484 said:
     So how exactly in the end does this help newer players?
    I had this earlier in the thread, i dont blame you for not seeing it, it's already getting too many pages deep lol

    go create an all new account.  Knowing what you know, with your alliance connections, knowledge of good versus bad characters, how and when to hoard which tokens and any other little tidbit that would give you a leg up on another new player.  under the current system, how long until you have a comparable roster?  how long would it take for someone without your insight?  

    now try to tell me with a straight face that a new person can't get there a little bit quicker just by grinding out 40 wins an event and getting all those 4* that much quicker.

    again, i am in the same boat, so it sucks.  but looking at the big picture?  i just shrug my shoulders and play my matches, and get a 4* cover and stop.
  • Xenoberyll
    Xenoberyll Posts: 647 Critical Contributor
    smkspy said:
    @Xenoberyll, but that's just you and others, but for many many other players it evens out or comes close to 40 wins anyways. 
    I don’t think it’s just me. Most of the vets probably score 50+ point matches. I get that lower rank players may take longer because of more hits etc and they probably are in bigger number than the vets. That doesn’t make it a good system though. They should come up with something that helps the smaller rosters but not hurt the big guys. 

    Mix win and point based progression and leave the cp at 1200 points. Or put a shield on points so you can’t drop unless you’re at 600+ points and small fish don’t get eaten anymore. Or maybe ask the playerbase for ideas...

  • shartattack
    shartattack Posts: 370 Mover and Shaker
    Any system that discourages roster advancement (money and/or time) is awful.
    The PVE change was fantastic.  As your roster got stronger, clears got faster, and with less health packs.  The old system was just a hamster wheel, where no matter how good your roster got, your enemies scaled with you, which is ridiculous.

    The new PVP little league system punishes and disincentivizes roster development.  I can't progress to the 5* tier because I just had 45 CP a week taken out of the realm of possibility.  Progressing to the 5* tier is punishing because you must now get the same number of wins, but against much stronger rosters. 

    It boggles my mind that people complain that most top scores are 5* rosters.  They should be at the top. 
  • Esheris
    Esheris Posts: 216 Tile Toppler
    edited October 2017
    I'm really glad that this new PvP system is going to happen. I was expecting that the negative feedback on the forums was going to scare the devs away from it.

    With the old PvP I really disliked losing hard earned points, the ping-pong effect, not ever reaching the rewards I really wanted, shielding never seemed to matter. 

    Thank you for implementing a game style that makes it more fun to get rewards and doing so at my own pace. 
  • ronin_san
    ronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
    Re: spudgutter.

    Again, no offense, but all i see in your response is "me" "me" and "I."

    “Read some of the comments of the people who have 4* and get smacked down trying to get to 575.  It happens. And not everyone can get 300 points in 5 or 6 matches. I have three champed 5*, and sometimes even after skipping dozens of 30 or 40 point matches, i have to settle for 51 points.  It's annoying and frustrating, and just further evidence that climbs can vary amongst people.

    Once you realize that *your* experience =/= *other* peoples experience, i hope that you see this is better for the long term health.“

    it isnt just Vhailorx. it’s a ton of players at the top who see this for what it is: more time for less rewards. This is a simple sliding graph. If you have to spend more time for the same rewards,then the rewards structure proposed is bad. I say this because with all mobile f2p games, you spend in time or in money. This feels like a time grab.

    to your point regarding having three champed fives and still struggling to hit your respective goals, I might ask two things:

    could your scaling impact your climb?

    could your ability to play be too constrained?

    who are your champed 5s and are you having users remorse regarding scaling?

    i have one champed 5. I easily hit 900. I commonly push above. My average character level is above 390. I think you are confusing scaling based competition with “the climb” and it’s repercussions.

    people don’t play this game smart, and complain when the community doesn’t just let them walk it in, ala Arsenal FC.

    YEAH. I SAID IT. GOONERS.
  • scottee
    scottee Posts: 1,610 Chairperson of the Boards
    People who were not getting 900 for the 4* cover can now get it regularly if they want. It goes from impossible to only requiring a set number of matches (which are easier/quicker for those with lower rosters because they face easier opponents). So it is easier for some.

    Also, the devs have stated that giving out the 15 CP will award more CP per event than players were achieving by the 1200 progression. If their claim is true, more CP will be entering the player economy, so it's overall more rewards.

    It will certainly be less rewarding for more work for portions of the playerbase, me included. But that doesn't mean it's a net loss by the players. People need to think from a different perspective other than their own.
  • Philly484
    Philly484 Posts: 173 Tile Toppler
    Spudgutter said:
    Philly484 said:
     So how exactly in the end does this help newer players?
    I had this earlier in the thread, i dont blame you for not seeing it, it's already getting too many pages deep lol

    go create an all new account.  Knowing what you know, with your alliance connections, knowledge of good versus bad characters, how and when to hoard which tokens and any other little tidbit that would give you a leg up on another new player.  under the current system, how long until you have a comparable roster?  how long would it take for someone without your insight?  

    now try to tell me with a straight face that a new person can't get there a little bit quicker just by grinding out 40 wins an event and getting all those 4* that much quicker.

    again, i am in the same boat, so it sucks.  but looking at the big picture?  i just shrug my shoulders and play my matches, and get a 4* cover and stop.
    I mean I used to do the same thing as you, until CP became something that mattered to me. So then I became more competitive. I get what your saying, but having a mass of 4*'s all covered but no ISO to fully champ them doesn't help new players. Yes they will be gaining a 4* cover faster, and if that all they care about that is great, but when they have all their 4's done and they are lacking CP and ISO to go to 5* land what then for the newer player?Newer players still hit a point in which  they can get a 4* cover but it not benefit them because they don't have that character champed, or its a dupe cover they cant use, because they aren't able to compete in play that gives more LT's and CP and ISO to finish said character.  
  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    So again the update to pvp is great for everyone without a 5 star roster.

    Its whatever to me, I only have 2 champed 5's so a push to 1200 was a coinflip in my circumstances. However to all 3 and 4 star players this is way better. WAYYYY better


    I understand it hurts the higher end players pretty much forces them to fight over scraps for something they could easily shoot for before.


    I suggest one or more of the following.

    Open up mmr in ranks 6 and up
    Make top 20 cp rewards worth the headache its going to be now.
    add another level of progression with cp


    Its almost pointless to jump into 5 star land as it is right now unless you have certain 5's covered.... lets not take away one of the lil benefit there was to getting strong 5's by removing the cp progression completely. 
  • shardwick
    shardwick Posts: 2,121 Chairperson of the Boards
    22 pt wins is punching down? My average amount of points for a win is about 25 pts in a regular event. I tend to get more pts per win in Shield Sim. The things I would do to get 300 pts for just five or six wins.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    This is most certainly a divided issue. People with low level rosters can now achieve the 4* cover- Great!! But, people with high level rosters now have to play twice (at best) matches to get that same reward and there is no guarantee of getting the 15 cp at the end- Against much harder opponents too!! That is a huge step backwards on incentive to build your roster. At this point I'm pretty much resigned that win based is going to be here to stay. So, I'll attack this from a different angle. If the issue is low level roster vs high level roster why not open up CL9 with points based progression?? That will keep high level rosters out of lower CL levels opening placement there for the people that really need those rewards. Open CL10 with the same structure. As you build your roster though the first 8 CLs eventually you can graduate to the real competition in CLs 9 and 10.....

    I for one would never drop out of CL9 if that was the case
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    Xenoberyll said:
    smkspy said:
    @Xenoberyll, but that's just you and others, but for many many other players it evens out or comes close to 40 wins anyways. 
    I don’t think it’s just me. Most of the vets probably score 50+ point matches. I get that lower rank players may take longer because of more hits etc and they probably are in bigger number than the vets. That doesn’t make it a good system though. They should come up with something that helps the smaller rosters but not hurt the big guys. 

    Mix win and point based progression and leave the cp at 1200 points. Or put a shield on points so you can’t drop unless you’re at 600+ points and small fish don’t get eaten anymore. Or maybe ask the playerbase for ideas...

     You'll get no disagreement here about having a better system. You can say the same thing about pve as it stands with scl scaling. 

    Their testing was poor, 2 tests and zero variation between the two, just like pve scl rostering.
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    shardwick said:
    22 pt wins is punching down? My average amount of points for a win is about 25 pts in a regular event. I tend to get more pts per win in Shield Sim. The things I would do to get 300 pts for just five or six wins.
    Yes, a 38 point battle is against someone with the same or nearly the same points. Anything less than that and you are leaving a high point retal for that person
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    ronin-san said:
    Re: spudgutter.

    Again, no offense, but all i see in your response is "me" "me" and "I."

    “Read some of the comments of the people who have 4* and get smacked down trying to get to 575.  It happens. And not everyone can get 300 points in 5 or 6 matches. I have three champed 5*, and sometimes even after skipping dozens of 30 or 40 point matches, i have to settle for 51 points.  It's annoying and frustrating, and just further evidence that climbs can vary amongst people.

    Once you realize that *your* experience =/= *other* peoples experience, i hope that you see this is better for the long term health.“

    it isnt just Vhailorx. it’s a ton of players at the top who see this for what it is: more time for less rewards. This is a simple sliding graph. If you have to spend more time for the same rewards,then the rewards structure proposed is bad. I say this because with all mobile f2p games, you spend in time or in money. This feels like a time grab.

    to your point regarding having three champed fives and still struggling to hit your respective goals, I might ask two things:

    could your scaling impact your climb?

    could your ability to play be too constrained?

    who are your champed 5s and are you having users remorse regarding scaling?

    i have one champed 5. I easily hit 900. I commonly push above. My average character level is above 390. I think you are confusing scaling based competition with “the climb” and it’s repercussions.

    people don’t play this game smart, and complain when the community doesn’t just let them walk it in, ala Arsenal FC.

    YEAH. I SAID IT. GOONERS.
    I have Strange, Thanos and Panther.  I got lucky when i finally jumped into 5* land. I have all but three 4* champed; lvl 233 lockjaw, lvl 229 mockingbird and lvl 131 rogue.  I even champed Dino during the anniversary all the way to lvl 288.

    I play slice 3, and climb when it fits *my* schedule and still hit over 1k in points.  My point is that my experience is probably just as unique as yours, and just as unique as the next person. Win based levels it out a little bit. Sucks for some, benefits a vast majority of lower level people. 

    A rising tide raises all ships 
  • Milk Jugz
    Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited October 2017
    Pants1000 said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Spudgutter said:
    Vhailorx said:

    Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want.  That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule.  And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping.
    First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.

    Ill give you a real world example.  Event starts, you join, play a few matches.  Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points.  Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work.  Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work.  Get home, and play some more.

    Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression.  Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.

    In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*.  Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.

    Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense.  And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200.
    If you only care about progression. I.e. playing to 900 points for the 4* and then putting the game down, then pvp was already basically play when you want.  

    It's pretty unusal to take hits below 500-600 or so.  So the first part of any climb is absolutely play when you want.  Spend 30ish minutes at your convenience climbing to 600ish.  The riskier part of climbing to 900 is 600-900.  Getting 300-ish points takes 5-6 matches (unless you punch down with futile 20 point matches).  5 or 6 matches takes about 20-25 minutes.  So that is basically the only requirement for 900 in the old system: at some point during last 48 hours of an event (preferrably not during the last couple of hours) you must spent 20-25 minutes to rush from 600 to 900.  

    That does't seem like an particularly strict schedule to me.  Especially not compared to an alternative that is: at any time the 60 hours of each pvp event you must spent approximately 140 minutes playing 40 matches.

    It's not some vast quality of life improvement for players.  It's a modest-to-significant improvement for some players and a modest-to-significant steo backwards for others.
    Your experience is that of a well-developed 5* roster who uses shield check rooms.  What you described is not true for the vast majority.  

    Unusual to take hits below 500-600?  LOL!  It depends on the boosted characters, but if I push to 500-600 and don't shield, I'll usually be hit back to 300-400 in a couple hours.  I've hit 575 and been hit back below 250 on multiple occasions.

    20-25 minutes to run from 600-900?  Again, that's not the case for most people.  Many people spend much longer than that, often not making it because they get hit repeatedly during the process.

    Getting to 875, winning another match, but getting hit for -100 in the process is the most frustrating thing that happens in this game.  This change removes that pain point, which is why I like it.

    I fully support making the CP more attainable for the top players.  I think it's dumb to have t10 get it in CL6-8.  Give constructive feedback and hopefully the devs will make adjustments/compromises for everyone. Giving it to t50 in CL9 seems like the most likely scenario.  


    I don't have a well developed 5* roster and I don't use any shield check rooms. I hit the targets the game presents to me. I'll concede I skip a lot of low point targets and I skip alliance mates. I don't have an issue hitting 1200. Again, no coordination, no shield checks, just skip low point targets and alliance mates. I do it in less than 40 wins and I am guaranteed the 15 cp at the end.
  • ronin_san
    ronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
    "I have Strange, Thanos and Panther."

    You have the strongest 5* paring in the game, and you're taking issue with 51 point fights?

     :/ 

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