I am not going to change anyone else's mind, and no one is going to change my mind, but I remain happy about wins-based progression.
I'm reminded of the PVP a few days ago where Mockingbird was the 900 point reward. I fought and I scraped and I shielded over time when I couldn't play, and I did my best to get to 900 points, and I ultimately just couldn't do it. And I have a decent team; I'm in the 4* territory of the game with some good champs. I'm not some scrub shooting over my target. It wasn't my team that was the problem.
I got up to 809 points, went in to battle and when I came out... I'd lost 160+ points. 160 points in, what, two minutes? That's ridiculous.
So I never got the Mockingbird cover I coveted. And that stunk.
So while some people may look at x-number of wins to get a reward as "OMG THAT WILL TAKE FOREVER!", I look at it as "It's achievable!".
But like I said... I don't expect to change anyone's mind. Everyone's feelings are what they are, and I dig that. And no one is going to convince me that having rewards be actually accessible is a bad thing. So que sera sera; bring on the change as far as I am concerned.
Philly484 said: So how exactly in the end does this help newer players?
smkspy said:@Xenoberyll, but that's just you and others, but for many many other players it evens out or comes close to 40 wins anyways.
Vhailorx said: Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping. First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.Ill give you a real world example. Event starts, you join, play a few matches. Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points. Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work. Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work. Get home, and play some more.Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression. Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*. Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense. And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200. If you only care about progression. I.e. playing to 900 points for the 4* and then putting the game down, then pvp was already basically play when you want. It's pretty unusal to take hits below 500-600 or so. So the first part of any climb is absolutely play when you want. Spend 30ish minutes at your convenience climbing to 600ish. The riskier part of climbing to 900 is 600-900. Getting 300-ish points takes 5-6 matches (unless you punch down with futile 20 point matches). 5 or 6 matches takes about 20-25 minutes. So that is basically the only requirement for 900 in the old system: at some point during last 48 hours of an event (preferrably not during the last couple of hours) you must spent 20-25 minutes to rush from 600 to 900. That does't seem like an particularly strict schedule to me. Especially not compared to an alternative that is: at any time the 60 hours of each pvp event you must spent approximately 140 minutes playing 40 matches.It's not some vast quality of life improvement for players. It's a modest-to-significant improvement for some players and a modest-to-significant steo backwards for others.
Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping. First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.Ill give you a real world example. Event starts, you join, play a few matches. Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points. Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work. Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work. Get home, and play some more.Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression. Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*. Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense. And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200.
Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping.
Spudgutter said: Philly484 said: So how exactly in the end does this help newer players? I had this earlier in the thread, i dont blame you for not seeing it, it's already getting too many pages deep lolgo create an all new account. Knowing what you know, with your alliance connections, knowledge of good versus bad characters, how and when to hoard which tokens and any other little tidbit that would give you a leg up on another new player. under the current system, how long until you have a comparable roster? how long would it take for someone without your insight? now try to tell me with a straight face that a new person can't get there a little bit quicker just by grinding out 40 wins an event and getting all those 4* that much quicker.again, i am in the same boat, so it sucks. but looking at the big picture? i just shrug my shoulders and play my matches, and get a 4* cover and stop.
Xenoberyll said: smkspy said:@Xenoberyll, but that's just you and others, but for many many other players it evens out or comes close to 40 wins anyways. I don’t think it’s just me. Most of the vets probably score 50+ point matches. I get that lower rank players may take longer because of more hits etc and they probably are in bigger number than the vets. That doesn’t make it a good system though. They should come up with something that helps the smaller rosters but not hurt the big guys. Mix win and point based progression and leave the cp at 1200 points. Or put a shield on points so you can’t drop unless you’re at 600+ points and small fish don’t get eaten anymore. Or maybe ask the playerbase for ideas...
DyingLegend said: Brigby what will the reward structure for the win based season look like? Will there be a preview?
Orion said: Brigby, I would love for you to get a developer on here so they can explain the logic behind awarding the 15 CP to only the top 10 of CL6-CL8. Normally, I can understand the logic, even if I don't agree with it. But this I can't figure out. You are taking 15 CP away from rosters that could get to 1200 but not make top 10 and giving it to whom? For those rosters, the CP is the only way to progress in the game. If my progression is slowed down by too much, then what incentive do I have to keep playing?
shardwick said: 22 pt wins is punching down? My average amount of points for a win is about 25 pts in a regular event. I tend to get more pts per win in Shield Sim. The things I would do to get 300 pts for just five or six wins.
ronin-san said: Re: spudgutter.Again, no offense, but all i see in your response is "me" "me" and "I."“Read some of the comments of the people who have 4* and get smacked down trying to get to 575. It happens. And not everyone can get 300 points in 5 or 6 matches. I have three champed 5*, and sometimes even after skipping dozens of 30 or 40 point matches, i have to settle for 51 points. It's annoying and frustrating, and just further evidence that climbs can vary amongst people.Once you realize that *your* experience =/= *other* peoples experience, i hope that you see this is better for the long term health.“it isnt just Vhailorx. it’s a ton of players at the top who see this for what it is: more time for less rewards. This is a simple sliding graph. If you have to spend more time for the same rewards,then the rewards structure proposed is bad. I say this because with all mobile f2p games, you spend in time or in money. This feels like a time grab.to your point regarding having three champed fives and still struggling to hit your respective goals, I might ask two things:could your scaling impact your climb?could your ability to play be too constrained?who are your champed 5s and are you having users remorse regarding scaling?i have one champed 5. I easily hit 900. I commonly push above. My average character level is above 390. I think you are confusing scaling based competition with “the climb” and it’s repercussions.people don’t play this game smart, and complain when the community doesn’t just let them walk it in, ala Arsenal FC.YEAH. I SAID IT. GOONERS.
Pants1000 said: Vhailorx said: Spudgutter said: Vhailorx said:Also, it's silly to suggest that this change lets you play whenever you want. That's only true if you only care about progression; placement still works on the same schedule. And if you really only care,about progression then PVP was already "play whenever you want" unless you got into shield hopping. First off, its not silly, it makes more sense then the current system, you just cant or wont see it.Ill give you a real world example. Event starts, you join, play a few matches. Put the kids to bed, play some more, hit maybe 400-600 points. Wake up in the morning, play match while brushing your teeth or drinking coffee. Play a match while at the gas station standing in line on the way to work. Play a match or two while on a break or in the restroom at work. Get home, and play some more.Now, in the current example, while at work during the day, you are flogged down 100-400 points, and never make that back up, and lose the progression. Some people dont feel like making that climb again, because they know the outcome is the same.In the new win based model, they are more then halfway to a 4*. Encouraged to keep playing, one could almost day.Too suggest that this game was already "play when you want for progression" is to be seriously detached from the casual player, no offense. And the casual playerbase, i think we can more than agree on, is way, way, way more people then those getting over 1200. If you only care about progression. I.e. playing to 900 points for the 4* and then putting the game down, then pvp was already basically play when you want. It's pretty unusal to take hits below 500-600 or so. So the first part of any climb is absolutely play when you want. Spend 30ish minutes at your convenience climbing to 600ish. The riskier part of climbing to 900 is 600-900. Getting 300-ish points takes 5-6 matches (unless you punch down with futile 20 point matches). 5 or 6 matches takes about 20-25 minutes. So that is basically the only requirement for 900 in the old system: at some point during last 48 hours of an event (preferrably not during the last couple of hours) you must spent 20-25 minutes to rush from 600 to 900. That does't seem like an particularly strict schedule to me. Especially not compared to an alternative that is: at any time the 60 hours of each pvp event you must spent approximately 140 minutes playing 40 matches.It's not some vast quality of life improvement for players. It's a modest-to-significant improvement for some players and a modest-to-significant steo backwards for others. Your experience is that of a well-developed 5* roster who uses shield check rooms. What you described is not true for the vast majority. Unusual to take hits below 500-600? LOL! It depends on the boosted characters, but if I push to 500-600 and don't shield, I'll usually be hit back to 300-400 in a couple hours. I've hit 575 and been hit back below 250 on multiple occasions.20-25 minutes to run from 600-900? Again, that's not the case for most people. Many people spend much longer than that, often not making it because they get hit repeatedly during the process.Getting to 875, winning another match, but getting hit for -100 in the process is the most frustrating thing that happens in this game. This change removes that pain point, which is why I like it.I fully support making the CP more attainable for the top players. I think it's dumb to have t10 get it in CL6-8. Give constructive feedback and hopefully the devs will make adjustments/compromises for everyone. Giving it to t50 in CL9 seems like the most likely scenario.
Brigby saidOrion said: Brigby, I would love for you to get a developer on here so they can explain the logic behind awarding the 15 CP to only the top 10 of CL6-CL8. Normally, I can understand the logic, even if I don't agree with it. But this I can't figure out. You are taking 15 CP away from rosters that could get to 1200 but not make top 10 and giving it to whom? For those rosters, the CP is the only way to progress in the game. If my progression is slowed down by too much, then what incentive do I have to keep playing? I don't know the exact reasoning, but I'll inquire with the developers, and provide info once I hear back from them.