Progression Reward Changes in Versus Tournaments (7/20/17)

broll

revizion said:

"We heard you like pve grind, so we put grind pve grind in your pvp"

Needing 40 wins for the equivalent of 900 points in pvp is the same as taking 40 fights @ 22.5 points each. That's at least TWICE as many fights as I usually need to get the equivalent, since I rarely take fights worth < 45 points each.

Of course they're limiting the 15 cp to t10 in each bracket. The grindy nature of needing to have at least 40 fights means people will be taking MORE fights, and knocking MORE points off of each other. What the quoted statistic overlooks is how many people REACH 1.2k in favor of how many FINISH with 1.2k. I know the reach # is higher because I can see it at the top of all my brackets. Overall fewer people will be getting the 15 cp.

This is a regressive change IMO

Unless you're constantly shielding you're likely dropping 100-200 a day (at least that's my experience) you're numbers don't take that into account. I've never counted my wins but I'd say on average for the ones I made it to 900 I did 12-15 fighter per day for 3 days which is 36-45 total. So the numbers don't sound so bad when I put it in that perspective when I originally thought it was high. 

JHawkInc

This looks like a win for most players. For progression, you can play when you want (HOLY **** PLAY WHEN YOU WANT, we've been asking for that for as long as I can remember, glad to see something happening there). You'll have to win 40 matches to hit max progression, but you can play when you want, and go after easier matches (things the current system doesn't encourage), so I see many more casual players being able to put in more effort and get more out of PVP, without having to find an out-of-game method for coordinating their game experience. LOADS of people are going to benefit from this, and moving the CP over to placement should help the people that still want to play PVP like that a competitive edge.

Mildly disappointed that it's an off-season event, because I've been boycotting those since Vintage Hero Tokens were introduced. I won't get to participate in testing out what I expect will be a good change because they still haven't addressed a monumental failure they made earlier in the year. Bummer.

BlackIC

Suggestion: You can keep the current system.  Only make losing points after a player reaches 1200 points. Progression is achieved and shields will still be used for trying to place higher in the ranks!

lokiagentofhotness

swordfishdata said:

entrailbucket said:

This is quite possibly the worst change that has ever been made in this game.  How is one supposed to prevent another player from hitting progression rewards if we can't take away points from them?  Please reconsider this, or let us give -1 win for each time we beat a player, or something.

Why on god's green earth would you want to prevent another player from hitting progression? Do you just enjoy ruining someone's day?

Yes.

acescracked

zulux21 said:

.. but I avoid pvp in general because I find the grind a pain...

I avoid pve in general because I find the grind a pain

(We are almost twins )

Vhailorx

HaywireII said:

mr_X said:

40 matches for a 4* cover. Darn lets just make pvp just as grindy as pve.

Story Event players are typically doing 9 nodes x 4 plays each day of a 3 day event for their progression prize so that's 106 matches for that 4 star cover.  40 sounds like a deal.

Story Mode also has the final command points at the end of the progession so it does seem odd they wouldn't leave the Versus mode final command points in progression and move it to placement.  It would be nice if they move it back.

Sure, but here are two counterpoints:

(1) people complain all the time about the time investment required by pve (which just went up from 4/6 to 5/6).  I dont think they wanted pvp to become more like pve in terms of reward:time efficiency.

(2) very few of the 36-54 daily matches in pvp are difficult.  The three trivial nodes can be cleared in 30-60 seconds most of the tims.  In pvp 5* players are facing 5* champs as soon as they clear the seeds.  30+ matches against 450+ opponents is quite a bit different than grinding down trivial nodes.

BlackBoltRocks

Can't be bothered to scroll through the previous 6 pages

At first glance, this looks a welcome change. I can now play PvP for progression-only (placement-only is an icing on the cake), and this encourages people to enter when the event starts, instead of entering with just 60 mins to go (as I have been doing for the past 3+ years)

Plus I've only gotten the 4* cover at 900 points on exactly two occasions. For me it's much easier to hit 40 wins than 900 points, so I welcome that part as well

jamesh

At first glance, this looks like a similar amount of matches to get a 4* cover compared to story mode (two clears of 9 nodes for three days, plus a few extra team up or single play nodes).  The versus matches will be more difficult than many of the story matches, but you need fewer wins.

This might be more matches than what people who were achieving these rewards did before, but on the flip side this looks like I could actually hit that 4* progression cover.  Making it so a player trying to transition between tiers can actually get the covers they need seems like a big improvement.

I suspect I'm going to get attacked a lot more in the event, but hopefully it will also mean there will be less people shielded early on in the event too (since there is less incentive to not play), so there will be more targets.

alaeth

Whichever Dev came up with 40 wins for progression has never played PvP with a full roster, in an active slice.  1200 points @ 40 wins is only 30 points per match... If I'm not hitting 75s, it it at least 50s.

In my 3 years of playing, I doubt I have _ever_ done 40 matches in PvP.

And T10 get CP?!?   What a slap in the face.  Right now, the 'Blind Justice' event... 19 people are over 1200 - with well over a day to go.


The whole reason I'm in a PvP alliance is to avoid the grind-fest that is competitive PvE placement.

Way to go Devs, you managed to ruin that too.  And.. you test it on the off-season, where 80% of the competitive PvP players take a break... so whatever data mining you get will be useless.

irwando

Good system, flawed implementation in the score targets.  Lower them to more realistic levels (30 fights for 900 seems right to me, but hey, I'd take lower) and it'll be great!

Thorzhamer

Brigby said:

maltyo9 said:

DrDevilDinosaur said:

This... Might actually be good.
Going to be some wailing and gnashing of teeth about putting the final prog reward over to placement, but whatever

I'm just curious as to what placement you have to get for the CP.

Brigby any info on this would be appreciated.

The CP that was originally the final progression reward will be allocated to the top 10 placement ranks.

We found that there were actually more players that reached top 10 compared to 1200 points, so moving it to placement will actually end up awarding it to more people! 

Uuugh... Top ten, are you kidding? Hell, I had 1300 points last event and finished 48th.

48th.... No where near top ten.


Final CP reward needs to be rethought, other than that I'm all in.

Dayv

Talus9952 said:
People are getting to 900 with way less than 40 wins.

Perhaps that's what they don't like?

I'm not a fan of this change, overall.

Infrared

Veterans have played PVP long enough to get a good feel of the points at where we can safely float unshielded, when to do a serious push, and when to shield before the hits start coming in. This is a negative change for those who already play the current system optimally.

An important part of optimal PVP play is knowing when not to play. One effective strategy is to wait till very late in the event and then just stomp on everyone who climbed earlier. That's a valid way to play, but isn't fair to those who put in consistent effort throughout the event. This is a positive change for players who don't know or don't care about timing in PVP. It also makes defensive teams unimportant if you only want the progression rewards. So perhaps there will be greater variety in opponents.

One thing for sure is that catching all the seed teams becomes an even bigger advantage under this system. Hopefully they make it fair by giving seed teams to everyone regardless of when we join the event.

JHawkInc

Thorzhamer said:

Brigby said:

maltyo9 said:

DrDevilDinosaur said:

This... Might actually be good.
Going to be some wailing and gnashing of teeth about putting the final prog reward over to placement, but whatever

I'm just curious as to what placement you have to get for the CP.

Brigby any info on this would be appreciated.

The CP that was originally the final progression reward will be allocated to the top 10 placement ranks.

We found that there were actually more players that reached top 10 compared to 1200 points, so moving it to placement will actually end up awarding it to more people! 

Uuugh... Top ten, are you kidding? Hell, I had 1300 points last event and finished 48th.

48th.... No where near top ten.


Final CP reward needs to be rethought, other than that I'm all in.

That's got more to do with your slice than anything else. I've landed t10 with scores around 900 many times.

Pinko_McFly

Sounds like a great change for low level players and SCL 1-5. Leave SCL 6-8 alone. 

Thorzhamer

JHawkInc said:

Thorzhamer said:

Brigby said:

maltyo9 said:

DrDevilDinosaur said:

This... Might actually be good.
Going to be some wailing and gnashing of teeth about putting the final prog reward over to placement, but whatever

I'm just curious as to what placement you have to get for the CP.

Brigby any info on this would be appreciated.

The CP that was originally the final progression reward will be allocated to the top 10 placement ranks.

We found that there were actually more players that reached top 10 compared to 1200 points, so moving it to placement will actually end up awarding it to more people! 

Uuugh... Top ten, are you kidding? Hell, I had 1300 points last event and finished 48th.

48th.... No where near top ten.


Final CP reward needs to be rethought, other than that I'm all in.

That's got more to do with your slice than anything else. I've landed t10 with scores around 900 many times.

Very true... But it also flies in the face of what is being touted as normal.... For the record I've been playing in slice 4 lately.. mainly for the points... If this system is instituted I will rethink that for sure.

Pinko_McFly

Very true... But it also flies in the face of what is being touted as normal.... For the record I've been playing in slice 4 lately.. mainly for the points... If this system is instituted I will rethink that for sure.

Slice 2 is going to get a lot more busy

mega ghost

I think this is a great change, although it needs some tweaks. The worst part of PvP is having your progression (for the season as well) pushed back by other players participating — this solves that. 
I think 40 wins is too tedious for the 4* cover reward. Make it 30. Or heck, want to keep it at 40? Make the reward two different color 4* covers.

I only play PvP for progression (I can only place top 50 with enough effort and timing, and have only placed top 10 a handful of times, and it's grueling.) I've never been able to get to 1200 points, but with a concerted effort can get to 900 points if I care enough about the reward and have the time and energy to dedicate during the right windows of time.

This may have been asked already, but would this apply to season progression rewards as well? If so, that would be the biggest boon here. Every PvP I hit somewhere between ~575 and ~650 points for the rewards, but by the time the matches end, I'm down to ~300 to ~350. I have to score practically double the necessary points in pursuit of season rewards because of this.

Adjust the numbers a bit and improve progression rewards and you have an excellent change, and the first solid improvement in quite some time.

revskip

I think it will change the way the community approaches the earlier part of the climb to shield.  Will see a lot more people starting out events with weaker teams and coordinating point dumps before making the push for progression.  

The people who really don't like outside coordination through Line are going to hate this.  

Otherwise should be a bit more grindy but doable.  Definitely not very friendly for those with MMR in the very high range since those 5* fights are healthpack killers or transitioning teams available for low points though. I know I'll triple any seal I come across when I know I have to hit 40 total fights especially early for just a few points where I would have probably skipped them with the old system.  Should be interesting if nothing else.  

talleman

Sounds very nice. Hope this will work