Progression Reward Changes in Versus Tournaments (7/20/17)

Angjo

Borstock said:

I'm definitely open to the possibility that 40 is just too high. But the people who think it should be 15 because that's what they can get when they basically game the system using LINE... I don't know. That doesn't feel like a puddle of tears I should care about. 

I'm sorry but I'm really beginning to resent the accusations you are throwing around about people "gaming the system" all through this thread, just because they have been more successful at pvp than you.

Our rosters are not so different - I have 45 champed four stars, you say you have 35 - I don't have any high levelled five stars because I chose not to.

 I don't use battle chat rooms, I typically use only one shield in a pvp, which is to shield to the end once I've hit 900 (which I always do - and before the change in progression 1000).

I don't snipe brackets, I typically join 24-30 hours before the end of a pvp and will see plenty of winnable matches for 50-70 points along the way

I take my time during my climb to make sure I don't hit any other members of my alliance family and always try not to multiple tap the same person unless the mmr gives me no other choice. 

In an individual pvp I will typically fight 20-25 matches, finish t25 and get the four star progression cover and I know lots of people who have exactly the same experience 

I don't doubt that for a lot of people the changes announced for the test event will be attractive but there are a significant number for whom it is not - I'm not advocating which is the best way forward here but please stop trying to sell it as somehow players like me are getting what we deserve for some mass conspiracy theory to deprive others of what is rightfully theirs and maybe consider that it makes some of us think about whether it's time to think about retirement, which is a little sad.

wymtime

jamesh said:

wymtime said:

Borstock said:

I'm definitely open to the possibility that 40 is just too high. But the people who think it should be 15 because that's what they can get when they basically game the system using LINE... I don't know. That doesn't feel like a puddle of tears I should care about. 

I think you need to stop saying The complaints are line players.  The reality is the people who score 1200 have 5* over level 450.  One big advantage is 5* players tend to be willing to score higher and really high end players climb way early and sometimes push into the 3000 point range by using shields and yes coordination.  The fact is because 5* players score higher when a player with a championed 5* goes into PVP they find 60+ point matches because of MMR.  5* players have to face championed 5* and it is the same meta team over and over again since 5* tier is not diverse nor are they buffed.  Too many players in the 4* range just don't push in PVP and because they don't (and a lot of it because the experience you have voiced) it is harder for 4* players to get 900+.  this test significantly impacts 5* players who do not spend massive money on the game.  Is teat is a very real negative experience and our voice will be herd.  Go ahead and have fun grinding this event for 40 wins for your X-force cover.  

One thing to note is that under the system being used for this test, specific point totals don't matter any more.  It doesn't matter if the point leader is at 3000 or 500: neither case is going to provide more help in achieving progression goals.  And the placement rewards are all about your score relative to other people, so it doesn't matter there either.

I think we'd need a number of tournaments with these rules before we can really see what the effect will be.  I suspect it will result in lower scores, but it might also see more engagement and more teams to be matched against at all levels.  It will result in a different optimum strategy, and it is difficult to say what that will be exactly.

The one thing you are missing is point total will matter even more now that only top 10 get the CP.  as a 5* player the only thing I care about reward wise is the CP and I am able to achieve that with my roster.  I didn't count my total of games I played to get to my score in junkyard wars, but I ended around 1300 points and will be top 25.  In the new system I lose out on the extra 15 CP.  if they place the cp in total wins it would be a different story, but they are taking the 15CP away from players who were previously earning them in the past and are now making a bigger emphasis on placing in top 10.

so far the best suggestion I have seen in this thread was making the progression rewards available by wins or point total, so players who can climb fast because of developed roster will earn the same rewards, but players who keep getting hammered at 700-800 points can keep playing and earn rewards too.  Taking rewards from one pool of players and giving it to another is harsh by the dev team and they should have seen this comming.

wymtime

konannfriends said:

I'm in 3* star land. I wanted to maybe get a vulture in one of the last event opened my bracket and seen people in the top 20 at 3000 points. You all sound a bit selfish. A vast majority of players are in the stage I am. Not to mention getting 4* characters isn't really easy. I will happily ground out 40 matches if I want that character. If I don't then I won't grind out 40 matches. I do think 40 matches is A lot. Maybe 30.  Either way if y'all stop playing you won't be missed. Then maybe I can actually place in top 50 in a pvp

As a 3* player you want more 4* covers available to you, but I am being selfish because I don't want to earn less rewards for more play?  From the 5* player I have not seen anyone post saying 4* should not be more available for you, we are saying the #1 reward we play for is CP and we achieve these rewards in a timely manner.  Now we have to play significantly more matches to potentially get the same rewards.  Why should your rewards come at the expense of me?  Why can't they set the system up so we can both get the rewards we want?  40 matches in PVP for a 5* player is a lot because of the meta tems we have to face and the point totals we can get.  

FokaiHI

@wymtime -- also, the 15cp isn't a lock anymore. A player that regularly hit 1200 now may lose 140-150cp a month. 

FokaiHI

@aesthetocyst. I was low balling, but you're right. It's worse. Lol

FokaiHI

@sh81. In no way am I saying you're wrong. I do know pvp is  a struggle, but I don't think anyone would have a problem with this new system if it was made to benefit the people that were hitting 1200 too. Add more ISO and cp. that's all it would take. Nobody would be complaining if they did 40 matches and were guaranteed 30k in ISO and 25 cp. 

fmftint

Just for perspective in my SCL8 Vulture bracket there are 30 players with scores greater than 1200.  Under the new system 20 of them WOULDN'T earn 15 command points

Bowgentle

fmftint said:

Just for perspective in my SCL8 Vulture bracket there are 30 players with scores greater than 1200.  Under the new system 20 of them WOULDN'T earn 15 command points

If the implementation sticks, they'll just go down to cl5 for the CP.

What a BRILLIANT idea to give CP to cl5.
Well done, Demiurge.

MaxxPowerz

What is the angle though? This new format doesn't exactly encourage shielding. I'm more inclined to stay unshielded to keep my rank low and queue up easier matches. Are the developers hoping this through increased player participation they will result in higher profits?

Orion

The only reward I care about is the CP.  I don't really care about the 4* cover that much since I have them all champed.  Let's see... they still award 25 CP for top 10 in CL5?  Ok, I hope the 2* and 3* players don't mind getting knocked out of the top 10 by whales because I'm moving down to CL5 for this test and any other one like it.   Eventually everyone else will figure it out too and do the same thing.  This test is going to make PvP much worse than it already is for newer players since the vets are going to take all of their placement awards.  They've made it so there's barely any difference between CL5, 6, 7 and 8 as far as CP is concerned. 

broll

Orion said:

The only reward I care about is the CP.  I don't really care about the 4* cover that much since I have them all champed.  Let's see... they still award 25 CP for top 10 in CL5?  Ok, I hope the 2* and 3* players don't mind getting knocked out of the top 10 by whales because I'm moving down to CL5 for this test and any other one like it.   Eventually everyone else will figure it out too and do the same thing.  This test is going to make PvP much worse than it already is for newer players since the vets are going to take all of their placement awards.  They've made it so there's barely any difference between CL5, 6, 7 and 8 as far as CP is concerned. 

I have to admit that because I don't care about getting xfw I dropped to SCL5 for the hope of getting T10 there. 

jredd

trying to get that vulture cover in pvp has me even more intrigued with this new trial. actually this whole season has been sub par in regards to reaching the 4* cover. i think i got it once.

for the previous x number of seasons i'd go in slice 3 or 5 (whichever finished in the middle of the night). wake up the day the event finished and go from 300-350 to 900 with 17-20 hours left in the event, pop a 24 hour shield and ride it out. i'd typically get hit once on the way up from 300-900, usually once i got over 800.

this season, i couldn't stay at 350 without getting hit down to 290-300 to start. and i got hit a lot more on the way up, culminating with a debacle today trying to get that vulture cover: from 500-700, the same 2 guys hit me a combined 10 times. still managed to go over 700 and get away from those 2. unfortunately, from 700-900 i got hit another 15 times from various others. got to 870 and took a -100 on the match that would have got me over 900. so i shielded at 833 for 3 hours. lined up 2 matches to go over 900. won the first to go to 870ish. started the second with the intent to super whale it and hopefully get that cover. well, in the amount of time it took. i ended up with a -188. i realize this is kind of a normal go for a lot of folk, but it's been several seasons since i've had an event like this. and i don't like it.  

i'll take a little extra work to get a guaranteed cover. 

fmftint

_M4ru_ said:

A few "interesting" comments from devs: 
How dare we to optimize our play time! We should all be ashamed! Grind 8+ hours or die!

He must be pretty pissed at all the players who don't even touch Shield Sim till the final day/hours of the season

aa25

I'm now sitting at 499 pts, 11 wins, one defensive lose (-25 or something I think). I think I hit people's A teams all the way. The only way I can hit 40 wins now is to dump point and re-climb again. Is this really what I have to do ? Seriously, if this becomes permanent I don't think I want to play PvP any more

hesjingixen

I've played some with the new system, and while I think the win counts are a LITTLE high, I really like this system, and I hope that it sticks.

Doc L

aa25 said:

I'm now sitting at 499 pts, 11 wins, one defensive lose (-25 or something I think). I think I hit people's A teams all the way. The only way I can hit 40 wins now is to dump point and re-climb again. Is this really what I have to do ? Seriously, if this becomes permanent I don't think I want to play PvP any more

To give my current effort in s1, as I am happy to try this, and give it a chance at least even if I have reservations, 738 points, 16 wins. And 1 defensive win that doesn't count. I wouldn't normally shield now anyway, so no big difference but I went through most of my health packs - as someone with 1 max 5* Thanos, hoarded and got, not a whale at all), my MMR only allows me to match similar rosters till it can't find any, and all fights with 5* lead to lots of damage. This pvp is worse anyway as it requires you to choose three rather than two, so harder teams. 25-30 wins I can live with (more than usual, but I'm willing to move for others to get a better deal), and the CP at 40 I would endorse this. But 40 for a 4*, that feels too much. 

zodiac339

aa25 said:

I'm now sitting at 499 pts, 11 wins, one defensive lose (-25 or something I think). I think I hit people's A teams all the way. The only way I can hit 40 wins now is to dump point and re-climb again. Is this really what I have to do ? Seriously, if this becomes permanent I don't think I want to play PvP any more

It might take time for players to get on board with how to make it work. I used 1 and 2 stars on seeds and waited for attacks. 3 wins from seeds and 9 from retaliations. Now just waiting for more attacks to counter. If more were on board, I'd see 2*s to attack without waiting, and everyone could just trade easier wins.

Crowl

This change isn't going to be an ideal one for people who could otherwise blast through to progression totals late in the event, but it will be beneficial to those who most need the 4* covers and would normally find themselves smacked down once they get past 800 and since that latter group and anyone with lesser rosters than that would tend to be a much larger group than former so it has to be considered positive overall even if the win total might be a little high.

acescracked

You guys understand the game plan right?

Give newer players CP get them hooked on pulling 4*s & 5*s. Then cut off the CP as the players move up in SCL.

When ya used to get CP and don't but want to progress now you gotta $pay$ to get that CP since you can't t10.  Also, you can get CP by t10 in CL8 but need to spend on HP to hop like crazy so they get ya anyway.

Alot of us are hitting the 1200 CP with zero, 1 or 2 shields and never needing to spend. Not good for paying the bills.

GurlBYE

The systems fine just put the cp back into progression somehow by points or wins and lower the total number by somewhere between 10-15, summarized the 22 pages here super easy. 

Which is shocking considering how dramatic some posts in this thread saying that are.