Progression Reward Changes in Versus Tournaments (7/20/17)

FokaiHI

This ^^^^ is funny. Wait. I'm Charlie Brown. AAUGH!!!

GigerHR

So, at first glance (before playing), I thought this was a great idea - it always sucks to get hit during the match that would put you over the next threshold and miss it by a few points. Now having played it, I realize that in this format, I'm going to have to play almost 2x as many matches as usual to hit the 4* reward. 

I started early (knowing that finding time for 40 matches is not going to be easy). I've got 23 wins and am at 922. I'm missing 5 progression rewards at a level where I would normally be fine to just stop for the rest of the event. The worst part is, unless I spend a bunch on shields, the next 17 matches are probably only going to net me 100-200 points (with the losses I'm going to take)... hardly seems worth it.

I have to say, I'm a little demoralized with this test at the moment. I'm really hoping D3 are just testing one half of a hybrid wins/points for progression system. Otherwise, please give us back the old system!

GurlBYE

Dayv said:

PvP seems kinda boring now that there's no pressure to retain any points until the last day.

To be fair, no one except the top of the brackets had any reason to secure their score unless they were climbing.

Most people just opted for going to 575 and quitting instead of tossing the HP down a toilet.

aargyle

There are so many characters coming so quickly, what would have been great is if rewards for wins were ADDED, instead of replacing.

Imagine if placement rewards were identical to what they were, except perhaps the 4* was a classic one (so vets could add to their 4* total). And win rewards were ADDED to possible rewards, so anyone who can win 40 can get a latest 4*. Would anyone complain that rewards were added?

Instead they were moved, and guess what happened? Players moved. Whatever statistics you looked at to see more made T10 than made 1200, you didn't account for the fact that most making 1200 were in scl7/8 and not caring if they made T10.

So here I am, with several of my known compatriots, "stealing" rewards in SCL5/6 since CP is the only thing that really matters for progression in late-game. I have been in SCL7/8 every event possible until this one. The classic 4* I'll forgo for that slim, slim chance of actual late-game progression: the CP. But it's going to come at the cost of someone who -would- have had the chance of getting that CP now not getting it, since I didn't go to a higher SCL.

Which points to the horrible truth of SCL's as well - there should be -many- more of them, and the difference in rewards between them should encourage people to join as high as they can, not try to join lower and snipe rewards from others.

SnowcaTT

Whoops, that's Snowcatt above - I forgot which login I had on new forums.

Dragon_Nexus

Well...two days in...Igotta say psychologically the new system is not great for me.

There's something satisfying about seeing yourself go ffrom 300 points up to 348 or something from a single fight. It's quite demoralising to spend 2-6 minutes on a fight and see the counter go from 20...to 21.

It makes this feel like way more of a grind.

That said, it is nice to leap into PvP, skip through some fights and find a team that looks like fun to beat and not give one single damn about how many points they're worth. Nothing like skipping for ages on the old system to find a decent fight and seeing it's worth 25 points. Or finding something worth 60 and it's level 380+ Thanos or something.

It's a good baseline test so far but...I'm not sure I'm going to find it within myself to grind up 40 wins. It feels like such a high mountain to climb. Especially since you quickly reach a point where you have to win 4 rounds just to get a single reward. And it ends up being 50HP.

FranklynStreet

Big fan of the progression changes in pvp.  Please implement permanently!!!

jredd

reached 40 wins with about 30 hours left. coincidentally while going over 900 points too. looks like they hit the number on that one.

big fan of the progression change. i never went for placement in pvp, so i'm not worried about getting hit anymore. hopefully the change goes permanent. 

Borstock

Angjo said:

Borstock said:

I'm definitely open to the possibility that 40 is just too high. But the people who think it should be 15 because that's what they can get when they basically game the system using LINE... I don't know. That doesn't feel like a puddle of tears I should care about. 

I'm sorry but I'm really beginning to resent the accusations you are throwing around about people "gaming the system" all through this thread, just because they have been more successful at pvp than you.

Our rosters are not so different - I have 45 champed four stars, you say you have 35 - I don't have any high levelled five stars because I chose not to.

 I don't use battle chat rooms, I typically use only one shield in a pvp, which is to shield to the end once I've hit 900 (which I always do - and before the change in progression 1000).

I don't snipe brackets, I typically join 24-30 hours before the end of a pvp and will see plenty of winnable matches for 50-70 points along the way

I take my time during my climb to make sure I don't hit any other members of my alliance family and always try not to multiple tap the same person unless the mmr gives me no other choice. 

In an individual pvp I will typically fight 20-25 matches, finish t25 and get the four star progression cover and I know lots of people who have exactly the same experience 

I don't doubt that for a lot of people the changes announced for the test event will be attractive but there are a significant number for whom it is not - I'm not advocating which is the best way forward here but please stop trying to sell it as somehow players like me are getting what we deserve for some mass conspiracy theory to deprive others of what is rightfully theirs and maybe consider that it makes some of us think about whether it's time to think about retirement, which is a little sad.

My posts were often directed at people who specifically described their exact experience as using LINE to coordinate an assault against weak teams with propped up scores. Any interpretation of my statements by you or anyone else as suggesting my experience was universal or that the LINE experience was universal the other way is simply an incorrect interpretation.

I've played now for more than 800 days. I have never had an easier time grabbing the 4* cover than I did during this test. I'm happy. That's my feedback. 

fmftint

jredd said:

reached 40 wins with about 30 hours left. coincidentally while going over 900 points too. looks like they hit the number on that one.

big fan of the progression change. i never went for placement in pvp, so i'm not worried about getting hit anymore. hopefully the change goes permanent. 

Hmmmm.....
I'm at 1200 and 28 wins

Perspective

ZootSax

Pinko McFly said:

The biggest benefit I've seen so far is there are more high point scores after 600.
Seems like the 3-4 people who quit at 575 are actually still playing.
Would be nice if they paid attention to their score and saw that it is possible to climb higher than 575 and stop quitting under the old format.

If the old format still had champed 5* players visible in my MMR throwing out 50-60+ point matches with only 3* rosters on defense, I'd gladly shoot higher than the 575-650 where I stop generally.  In reality, I sometimes don't see a single 60+ point match outside of simulator for an entire season, much less as often as I've seen them already in this run of Divine Champions.  I stop when the points run dry (<20 or so), which happens around 525-625 at my MMR, depending on how early I'm trying to climb.  Sure that's a result of many 3-4 types responding the same way, but I find that more a fault of the MMR than the players.  

For what it's worth, the 16 wins to the 10CP is fewer than I would expect to get to 575 normally (I average 32-35pts/win, give or take, in a normal event).  This event, I did it in 11 wins.

alaeth

Sitting at 460 pts - 9 wins.

and my win count is artificially HIGH.  By my math, I won't make 40 before I run out of hittable targets.  So I am intentionally hitting low point targets (less than 30 pts) with mirror teams - hoping those people will retaliate back and we can swap wins.

Such a strange PvP mechanic you've forced on us with the win count so high... but I'll play your little game.

revskip

Just finished getting my X-force cover and happy to be done with this crazy slog.  

Started right at the beginning last night with a full slate of seeds.  Beat those with a throwback Stormneto team with 2* Carol as the 3rd. Got to 9 wins just off of seeds.  Let retaliations build up all night.  

This morning went back and beat down all the poor 2* and 3* rosters who were able to queue me for another 11 fights that I used my A team for (4Thor, IM40, Mostorm) which put me at 20 total fights and roughly 600 points.

 Again left it alone to do the boss event and came back several hours later to farm the retals which were now mostly 4* teams and the occasional 2* team that had the misfortune to finding my team in their cache.  Got to 32 wins in the early evening very close to 800 points.  

Finally came back and got the last 8 fights in and ended just over 800 which is where I would normally shield for placement.  Since I already have the 4 star and no real reason to front run I am done with the event until the last few hours when I will climb if it seems like I can get a top 10 finish with 900 or so points or bag the whole thing if it looks like the top ten is all in the 1000+ range.  If the goal was to have me play all two and half days that definitely failed.  

In the last event I hit 1200 in 29 total fights with six shields used.  I received an extra 15 CP for the extra hops which was worth the HP.  This event I probably won't even use a single shield unless things break right at the end because without knowing if top ten is going to be at a reasonable score I have no reason to bother.  Hopefully the financial hit they take from people who used to shield much more will turn them off this experiment.  If not I'm likely not going to bother with competitive PVP anymore and just hit weak teams for the wins and the 4* cover then freefall.  This many fights was not at all fun.  

aa25

aa25 said:

I'm now sitting at 499 pts, 11 wins, one defensive lose (-25 or something I think). I think I hit people's A teams all the way. The only way I can hit 40 wins now is to dump point and re-climb again. Is this really what I have to do ? Seriously, if this becomes permanent I don't think I want to play PvP any more

Update: Hit 1020 pts, 29 win, and shielded to the end (S1). Walked straight from 600 to 1020 with 4Thor/JG/4Marv and switched to 4Thor/Mohawk/IM40 during the last two matches. Got trippled and a single near the end. Lost once due to miscalculation and got one-shot from 4Thor who had 1k health left. Lol.

Wilger

Hit 800 point with 16 wins(2 sessions before and after SM VS S6) and no 3* (12 wins away).

and then the next 100 points would have given the 4* (but that is even 12 wins further away).

now at 22 wins (775 points)

Never Shield

extra 2 cents: maybe make this change an extra option when entering, like chosing what level u want to play on

SpringSoldier

I'm at 31 wins and the targets have become too difficult. I'm now kinda hoping others with teams similar to mine (no more boosted Thoress pls!) would kick my butt, so I can advance. Anyway, it's the most rewards I've ever earned in PVP, so me happy. Also 50 hp isn't that bad when you still need rooster spots.

One other thing that will be hindering this test and I hope the devs take this into consideration: lots of players are spending their time and health pack for the Sinister Six event, even those who don't normally play PVE. Plus being off-season, plus the rewards being unsatisfactory for the vets who already have Wolverine 4* champed (for me it's still worth it though).

Ronburgundy

Had to go up to 673 points for the 16 wins to get the 10 CP progression reward. 4 more wins than it would have taken on the old structure. Some adjustments are definitely needed. 

shusheshe

Strangely enough I feel less pressure to # out.   And 40 wins for a 4* cover is way to much. In divine champions, I played the way I normally do (except sans shield) and 27 wins got me to 1006, which is the highest I've hit since cupcakes disappeared.   At this point I'd have gotten the 4* cover already under the old system. 

Bruinsfan17

Not sure how I feel about this new system. If the reward wasn't X-Force I may have tried harder but I've only gotten to about 16 wins and already feel like the continued effort just isn't worth it. I could hit 900 in just a few more wins(4* reward normally) which is ideal but to have to hit 40 wins for that reward just isn't worth the time.

edit: So I've reached 20 wins and am already over 900 and sitting in second place. Albeit I did join CL5(usually in 7 or 8) for the CP rewards instead of X-Force so it is working out for me. Overall the new system is basically a pick your poison type deal. Do you want the 4* or do you want the CP? Guess that more or less helps everyone? I'm impartial on the system still. Think it would have been a better idea to not use the off season as the test time cause people usually take a break during this time. But it's really the only time that makes sense.

mpqr7

I've been giving it my best and hating every second of it. I'm now at 19 wins, so at least I got the 10 cp. The rest doesn't really matter, since there no way I'll get the final 15 cp, so why bother.

Each match is 5+ minutes, and sometimes I lose, because they're so hard, so that's 5+ minutes, 3 health packs and a complete waste of my time and life.

The thrill of progression points was that if you chose the right challenging team, you could get 75 points, so you could progress quickly, winning a new prize every other match. But here, you are forced to wait 4 wins no matter what, before receiving a prize. And each match is harder and more tedious than the next.

I really don't see the current model as workable. Like many, I think that number of wins should be in addition to the current prizes, not instead of the current prizes. And that final 15 cp shouldn't be moved to progression, because that basically means you are taking it away from most of us, not giving it to more of us.



I'd love to see the rosters of everyone posting. I bet that everyone who loves this has 3*/4* rosters, and everyone who hates this has 5* rosters.

I'd love using my 5* roster more if it meant I could fight easier rosters.... it's not so fun that now I need to fight cruelly difficult rosters, much harder than things were in my 3*/4* days.