Progression Reward Changes in Versus Tournaments (7/20/17)

aa25

Doc L said:

aa25 said:

I'm now sitting at 499 pts, 11 wins, one defensive lose (-25 or something I think). I think I hit people's A teams all the way. The only way I can hit 40 wins now is to dump point and re-climb again. Is this really what I have to do ? Seriously, if this becomes permanent I don't think I want to play PvP any more

To give my current effort in s1, as I am happy to try this, and give it a chance at least even if I have reservations, 738 points, 16 wins. And 1 defensive win that doesn't count. I wouldn't normally shield now anyway, so no big difference but I went through most of my health packs - as someone with 1 max 5* Thanos, hoarded and got, not a whale at all), my MMR only allows me to match similar rosters till it can't find any, and all fights with 5* lead to lots of damage. This pvp is worse anyway as it requires you to choose three rather than two, so harder teams. 25-30 wins I can live with (more than usual, but I'm willing to move for others to get a better deal), and the CP at 40 I would endorse this. But 40 for a 4*, that feels too much. 

I'm in S1 too. Joined at 4-5h in (I'm a sleepy head. Can't join when the event starts) Although, I'm still a 4* player and running 4Thor+4Marv+JG at the moment. I stopped at 499 pts because of healthpack too. I have Miles to chase after tonight .

zodiac339 said:

aa25 said:

I'm now sitting at 499 pts, 11 wins, one defensive lose (-25 or something I think). I think I hit people's A teams all the way. The only way I can hit 40 wins now is to dump point and re-climb again. Is this really what I have to do ? Seriously, if this becomes permanent I don't think I want to play PvP any more

It might take time for players to get on board with how to make it work. I used 1 and 2 stars on seeds and waited for attacks. 3 wins from seeds and 9 from retaliations. Now just waiting for more attacks to counter. If more were on board, I'd see 2*s to attack without waiting, and everyone could just trade easier wins.

I am aware of several ways to do it (dump point & Reclimb, Climbing with 2*/3*, exchange retals with someone, etc). It's more of a question "Is this what I have to do ?" I mean, it ruins the fun I usually have in PvP. I can usually pick a fight with various different teams with whatever teams I want. You can argue I can spend sometimes to get that 40 hits out of the way first, then I can go back to play like usual. Maybe. I don't know. Another small little thing that bugs me is that the 4* cover at 900 is practically the last avenue for me to get more covers for vaulted 4*.






Well, the devs asked for testing and I believe I have done my part. Let's see how things go.

Orion

acescracked said:

You guys understand the game plan right?

Give newer players CP get them hooked on pulling 4*s & 5*s. Then cut off the CP as the players move up in SCL.

When ya used to get CP and don't but want to progress now you gotta $pay$ to get that CP since you can't t10.  Also, you can get CP by t10 in CL8 but need to spend on HP to hop like crazy so they get ya anyway.

Alot of us are hitting the 1200 CP with zero, 1 or 2 shields and never needing to spend. Not good for paying the bills.

New players aren't going to get any CP out of this.  The vets have all split up and are sandbagging down as far as CL5.  And what would the new players do with 15 CP anyway?  If you are unlucky enough to pull a 5*, your scaling in the game is ruined.  New players don't need CP.  5* transitioners need CP.  And they're the ones getting screwed by this.

jamesh

wymtime said:

jamesh said:

wymtime said:

Borstock said:

I'm definitely open to the possibility that 40 is just too high. But the people who think it should be 15 because that's what they can get when they basically game the system using LINE... I don't know. That doesn't feel like a puddle of tears I should care about. 

I think you need to stop saying The complaints are line players.  The reality is the people who score 1200 have 5* over level 450.  One big advantage is 5* players tend to be willing to score higher and really high end players climb way early and sometimes push into the 3000 point range by using shields and yes coordination.  The fact is because 5* players score higher when a player with a championed 5* goes into PVP they find 60+ point matches because of MMR.  5* players have to face championed 5* and it is the same meta team over and over again since 5* tier is not diverse nor are they buffed.  Too many players in the 4* range just don't push in PVP and because they don't (and a lot of it because the experience you have voiced) it is harder for 4* players to get 900+.  this test significantly impacts 5* players who do not spend massive money on the game.  Is teat is a very real negative experience and our voice will be herd.  Go ahead and have fun grinding this event for 40 wins for your X-force cover.  

One thing to note is that under the system being used for this test, specific point totals don't matter any more.  It doesn't matter if the point leader is at 3000 or 500: neither case is going to provide more help in achieving progression goals.  And the placement rewards are all about your score relative to other people, so it doesn't matter there either.

I think we'd need a number of tournaments with these rules before we can really see what the effect will be.  I suspect it will result in lower scores, but it might also see more engagement and more teams to be matched against at all levels.  It will result in a different optimum strategy, and it is difficult to say what that will be exactly.

The one thing you are missing is point total will matter even more now that only top 10 get the CP.  as a 5* player the only thing I care about reward wise is the CP and I am able to achieve that with my roster.  I didn't count my total of games I played to get to my score in junkyard wars, but I ended around 1300 points and will be top 25.  In the new system I lose out on the extra 15 CP.  if they place the cp in total wins it would be a different story, but they are taking the 15CP away from players who were previously earning them in the past and are now making a bigger emphasis on placing in top 10.

so far the best suggestion I have seen in this thread was making the progression rewards available by wins or point total, so players who can climb fast because of developed roster will earn the same rewards, but players who keep getting hammered at 700-800 points can keep playing and earn rewards too.  Taking rewards from one pool of players and giving it to another is harsh by the dev team and they should have seen this comming.

I think you misunderstand me: I'm not saying that your point total relative to other people in your bracket doesn't matter: just that absolute point totals don't.

I've seen people advise others not to play in slice 2 because scores aren't as high, which makes it more difficult to hit progression goals.  With this new system, it doesn't matter if the point leaders maintain their lead by shield hopping to ridiculously high scores, or if they do it by actively suppressing other players' points.

So yes, getting into top 10 is still a worthy goal (more so because of the CP), but it doesn't really matter what the point cut off for top 10 is.

SpiderKev

_M4ru_ said:

A few "interesting" comments from devs: 
How dare we to optimize our play time! We should all be ashamed! Grind 8+ hours or die!

Most folks I talk to, no one gives a rats behind about the progression rewards. The thinking above is all bass ackwards and has me questioning who exactly you are listening to and getting your feedback from? It certainly isn't the knowledgable and experienced MPQ player. If you want people playing from the start, which I agree is key, make the CP the progression reward. Similar to how you set up PVE, which was a brilliant strategy, I'm not sure why you moved away from this for PVP?

As it is right now, there are already Line rooms being set up with folks making a second account to track brackets and when it flips within the last hour or less then joining the fresh bracket with their primary account to grab the easy CP reward that others have played 3 days for. 

wymtime

@demurge_Anthony
i am taking your advice and starting this event from the beginning.  I face all seed teams with a 3* team and waited for 3* player to attack me.  Now I am going to stomp on them with retaliations with 5* because that is the design you have set up.  I have Lao dropped down in CL so I can steal rewards from lower CL people who are trying to progress and could use the 3* for being top 10.  I hope this was what you expected from high end players and how you feel this is how the game was intended to be played.

sinnerjfl

Bowgentle said:

fmftint said:

Just for perspective in my SCL8 Vulture bracket there are 30 players with scores greater than 1200.  Under the new system 20 of them WOULDN'T earn 15 command points

If the implementation sticks, they'll just go down to cl5 for the CP.

What a BRILLIANT idea to give CP to cl5.
Well done, Demiurge.

Im slumming it into CL5 atm for Divine Champs, im sure the folks in that bracket must be super happy about that (yes its a jerk move and yes im doing it to tinykitty their test).

I also basically only care about the CP at this point, the 1 champion level on my old vaulted 4*'s aint that beneficial anymore.

SnagglePuss

35 mins, 27 fights, 572 points. 
(multi) hit anyone not running triple champed 5s, whatever points value they were. 

If I didn't start right at the beginning I would have been stuck in 5* mmr hell, like everyone else who started 10 minutes later. So when everyone does  this it's going to be a slog. 

Is this style of play expected? 

Huntah86

28 wins and almost 800 points and I still have 2 days left. I was just playing randomly in down time. I dont think 40 wins is as hard as people are making it seem. Probably played no more than an hour and a half

Tony_Foot

Love it, tweak the requirements off the back of a couple of tests and make this permanent. Love hitting anyone and don't care about points or retaliation. This is something for the little guy after getting rid of cakes and leaving grills for the better rosters and spenders.

Big positive change.

Yoik

Went into S1 as per usual and for some reason auto pressed SCL8. In hindsight I would of busted SCL5 but never mind.

 

Think im on about 30 wins. Ive gone in early at the start and played here and there. Was up at 600 odd at one point but I think ive been hit 4 or 5 times for 100 plus points

 

Back up in the 500s I think now. Using the original winfinite. GW, SW, prof x (well I suppose 2 star mags and mystique were possibly the original before they stopped that ) ( was it mystique?? I cant remember now but you could get 5 blue for magnetos purple power in those days ). I see a lot more action than normal. I think in part it is because im using a team which isn’t that scary whereas normally it would be champed 4s. I also think that a lot of people are panicking for the 40 wins and going all out too.

 

Ordinarily I would play to 500 odd and float. Then with 18 hours left or less I would climb to first shield at about 900. Then hop to 1200 till end. 40 wins is far too many for the reward in my opinion. If the game is designed as intended and we are to play as intended then you could play from the start with you’re a team climb in much the same way as I have stated and still hit 1200 just much earlier. Late climbing is better for higher point matches but even with that aside I think most people hit up matched over 35 points. Most of mine especially in later stages are sometimes twice that.

 

40 wins is too many for the same rewards. It is a good way for all people to get the rewards I feel but needs tweaking. I will go to 40 wins and then with 24 hours left switch to A teams and then see where I can end up for placement

Moon Roach

On Steam, the top half of "You Won:" is off the top of the screen.

<sigh>

ammenell

Silverblade said:

I am loving the new system. Just started and scored the 10 Cps already. 16 wins is easy. And 40 wins by the third day is certainly within reach no matter how high or low is your roster and SCL. So yeah I'm all in for this.

my thoughts exactly, I'm at 25wins now, don't care about who has how many points, just hitting teams left and right. 
if I could use the xfw cover I would go for 40, but still probably just stop at 38, 39

jamesh

Moon Roach said:

On Steam, the top half of "You Won:" is off the top of the screen.

<sigh>

I see the same thing on Android.  So I don't this isn't a case of them focusing on mobile players at the expense of PC players

madsalad

Yo dawg!!!!

ZamWiesel

I climbed slowly from the start of event over the next 3 hours. Started with a trap cake of cstorm/im40/2*daken to clear the seeds. Once I got a few hits from low players. I switched to my A team and hit all of them. I climbed with that team to 600. From 600 to 800 I hit 4-10 point seals over and over again til I hit 40. Don't see a point in shielding this early anymore so I'll float for a while and see what things are looking like tomorrow. I don't mind the 40 wins because I typically start early anyway. But removing the cp from progression is a mistake.

atomzed

I hit 40 wins at the 1 day 12 hr mark. 

basically climb up high and when i can see the seals, i just club them until i reach 40 wins. 

I went down to SCL5, mainly because i want the CP. too bad for the lower tier players.... but blame on D3.

Daiches

6h into the event. No one shielding yet.
Achieved the following rewards at the following scores.
575 HP @675
650 Token @ 792
700 HP @ 869
800 3star cover @ 902... (finally found 5 point seals)


oh yeah, this system is SOOO MUCH BETTER for getting the 900 reward.

AlluAllu

I love this. I have always played PVP reluctantly, because I hate other players attacking me and worrying about the points. But now I can finally have fun with it and earn a guaranteed 4-star. I currently have 24 wins from two sessions. It does require some work, but if this becomes permament, I can play just every other event and take a break between. And I'd much rather grind in PVP than PVE. PVE has goons, but it repeates itself over and over. With PVP, every match can be different. 

Silverblade

I deffinitively love it. Specially considering that it democratizes people's access to rewards simply based on their effort. Wins can't be taken away and thus, 40 wins is all down to effort no matter how many times you are hit. Otherwise, people like me who don't have a lot of 4*s can get access to 4*s to build them. Otherwise the only people who could achieve 900s were people who already had 4*s, so the rich only got richer and the weak got ****, forever.

mpqr7

I started playing it. It makes me sad to see a simple wins counter. I preferred the progression bar. Also 4 wins to get to the next prize is very, very slow. Each match takes around 5 minutes, because I only have championed 5*s in my mmr. It's dreadful. I miss the old system!

I was somehow hoping that the new system would be win bonus ON TOP OF progression bonus, not instead of. That way, you could keep playing your current way, and you would get additional prizes if you started earlier and did more matches, instead of starting near the end to do higher-scoring matches.

Now, you are forced to start at the beginning so as not to run out of health packs. And your reward for all this extra time spent on the game? Worse prizes, since you can no longer win that final 15 cp. That's really the cruncher.