Update to Progression Rewards in Story Events (5/18/17)

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  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Magic said:
    More grinding for the same rewards. How cool is that. Can't wait.

    On what earth is it the "same rewards?"  There's a significant bump in progression rewards here.  
  • CrookedKnight
    CrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    GrumpySmurf1002 said:
    Magic said:
    More grinding for the same rewards. How cool is that. Can't wait.

    On what earth is it the "same rewards?"  There's a significant bump in progression rewards here.  
    Depends on your point of view:

    If you do five clears, you get more progression rewards than you used to. So yes, more grinding = more stuff.

    But if you stick to four clears, you get fewer progression prizes than you used to. Same amount of grinding = less stuff. If you were happy with the old time/reward setup, too bad. You can either put in more time or accept smaller rewards.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Starfury said:
    I love how we've got so many people here going around telling people how if they don't play a mobile game for 2+ hours every day, they're just too lazy and shouldn't expect to be able to keep up with content.
    That's not what I see happening.  What I'm seeing is people who were fine with the 60-90 min (YEMV on timing) grind for 4 clears upset they need to do an extra 20-30 minutes.  That seems....peculiar.   

    I'd also be willing to bet that at least a few people vocally upset are already grabbing the XP, in which case this is also a non issue.

    I mean listen, I hate the PvE grind as much as the next person, and I think the CP rewards should be flatter, but this is the logical result of "I want PvE to be progression based!" that everyone has clamored for in the last 2 years.  It was never going to be "do 2 clears and get all the rewards, godspeed."  

    First pass, I think the CP should be more flatly distributed, but otherwise seems like a decent boost to the rewards, especially addressing the other major complaint (that 7 day rewards doesn't match a week of 3d/4d)

  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    CrookedKnight said:
    GrumpySmurf1002 said:
    Magic said:
    More grinding for the same rewards. How cool is that. Can't wait.

    On what earth is it the "same rewards?"  There's a significant bump in progression rewards here.  
    Depends on your point of view:

    If you do five clears, you get more progression rewards than you used to. So yes, more grinding = more stuff.

    But if you stick to four clears, you get fewer progression prizes than you used to. Same amount of grinding = less stuff. If you were happy with the old time/reward setup, too bad. You can either put in more time or accept smaller rewards.
    Right, he said more grinding = same stuff.  I said more grinding = more stuff.  You agree more grinding = more stuff.   We're good here.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    GrumpySmurf1002 said:
    Starfury said:
    I love how we've got so many people here going around telling people how if they don't play a mobile game for 2+ hours every day, they're just too lazy and shouldn't expect to be able to keep up with content.
    That's not what I see happening.  What I'm seeing is people who were fine with the 60-90 min (YEMV on timing) grind for 4 clears upset they need to do an extra 20-30 minutes.  That seems....peculiar.   


    Peculiar in what way?

    More time is, more time. Regardless of peoples personal use of it  Especially considering this is one aspect of this game.

    Also assuming that everyone can clear every node in that time frame isn't accurate.

    3's aren't at all boosted to where 4's are.

    And the scaling doesn't reflect that boosting that "extra 20 minutes" can be up to an extra 30-40 for some rosters depending on the sub and the scaling.

    Just trying to make it less "peculiar."

    And game design really doesn't have to be hurting yourself for more rewards.

    Making pve progression based is peoples way of trying to get placement awards.
    These awards weren't at all removed from placement and this does nothing to change what placement rewards provide over progression.

    It's a different conversation. 
  • Starfury
    Starfury Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2017
    GrumpySmurf1002 said:
    Starfury said:
    I love how we've got so many people here going around telling people how if they don't play a mobile game for 2+ hours every day, they're just too lazy and shouldn't expect to be able to keep up with content.
    That's not what I see happening.  What I'm seeing is people who were fine with the 60-90 min (YEMV on timing) grind for 4 clears upset they need to do an extra 20-30 minutes.  That seems....peculiar.   

    Why? For many people, the 4 clears were already stretching the time limit.
    Adding another clear with maxed-out scaling to your daily schedule, just to be able to get the same (actually higher) amount of cp as before is bound to create negative reactions.

    I just don't see how anyone would feel a need to defend that additional time requirement.
    If you have a job where you can play the game, spend an hour on public transport or are in school and have tons of spare time to play the game, good on you. But don't disparage the many other people who after work and domestic work have maybe 2 hours of me-time per day.
  • GurlBYE
    GurlBYE Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    Bowgentle said:
    I love this forum.
    "Make PVE progression only!"
     - devs put more rewards in progression
    "You expect me to do MORE clears now?!?"

    What did you guys expect?
    A 4* cover just for showing up, another for one clear in the first sub, the third for doing another clear in another sub?
    This playerbase is just grossly polarized between Intensely Hardcore, and mobile game casual.

    Which to be fair makes sense, considering it's a mobile game that requires a lot of time to be hardcore while having game play that entirely supports short spurts throughout the day.

    it's the most confused "puzzle" based gameplay game I've seen.

    The only annoying thing on the forums really isn't so much the naysayers who don't like what devs do. that's normal, and are usually ignored when people find what they say ridiculous.

    What's worse is the players who run back to the position of moral superiority over players who have any concerns different then them. 

    Also to top it off, I'll repeat.

    Make PVE progression based is not the same thing as add more rewards that are different than progression rewards to PVE.
    So you're doing that baiting thing and belittling others opinions on the interplay between more rewards under the same competitive system, by dragging in a point that's unrelated. 
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    Jaedenkaal said:
    Liftoff said:
    I don't get the 5 clears thing.  After the 4th one you don't get the full points and won't for 24 hours.  So for a 24 hour slice you will never get a full 5 clear.  Doesn't that mean that really you will need to complete all 6 clears because you will never get the full 5th amount?
    They're counting on you getting 2/3 points for your 5th battle. So you have to let it regen for 8 hours, or just do a 6th battle at any time (3/4 points minimum for 5th and 6th combined)
    I haven't seen anyone correct this, I believe what they are saying is that the 5th clear is being treated as the minimum of 2/3 the full point value. I.e., if there was a node worth 150 points, five clears means you scored 700 points from it, not 750.

    Now if that is true, this means waiting for points to regenerate means you don't have to do a fifth clear on every node. On most events without Wave nodes, you could expect the last CP award to be about 14% higher than the last HP award. But it is hard to tell that in advance with The Hunt which has so many one-and-done nodes.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Starfury said:
    GurlBYE said:
    Jam_Adams said:
    Addressing all three at once...you're right, probably too broad an assumption, but my basis is that those clearing 4 times in PvE are probably also doing PvP, and DDQ, and lightning rounds, etc.....In other words investing heavy time into the game already.

    Sure, asking for even more time is still more time, but I have to think if you're already carving out multiple hours for a game, you'll still somehow find the extra time.  Or you'll quit, in which case hey, free time!

    Bigger point again though:  Progression based PvE was always going to the time commitment of Placement based.  Inevitability that I think some wanted to pretend wouldn't be the case.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,847 Chairperson of the Boards
    ZeiramMR said:
    Jaedenkaal said:
    Liftoff said:
    I don't get the 5 clears thing.  After the 4th one you don't get the full points and won't for 24 hours.  So for a 24 hour slice you will never get a full 5 clear.  Doesn't that mean that really you will need to complete all 6 clears because you will never get the full 5th amount?
    They're counting on you getting 2/3 points for your 5th battle. So you have to let it regen for 8 hours, or just do a 6th battle at any time (3/4 points minimum for 5th and 6th combined)
    I haven't seen anyone correct this, I believe what they are saying is that the 5th clear is being treated as the minimum of 2/3 the full point value. I.e., if there was a node worth 150 points, five clears means you scored 700 points from it, not 750.

    Now if that is true, this means waiting for points to regenerate means you don't have to do a fifth clear on every node. On most events without Wave nodes, you could expect the last CP award to be about 14% higher than the last HP award. But it is hard to tell that in advance with The Hunt which has so many one-and-done nodes.
    Here's a question:  what if you just did 6 clears of the 4 easiest nodes?  Or maybe the 5 easiest?  If that's equal to 5 clears of all, the extra time is minimal. Also the health pack usage.  There is some flexibility in the scoring to be considered.  Doing a more optimal 5th clear would help you do less overall clears if you choose.

    If you are a player who does 6 clears now, you know that you end up playing just for node rewards and placement in the final day or so.  So that point is later in the cycle now, which leads to more days of playing if you want max progression.  Which is one of the dev's goals, I assume. (Keep engagement up, especially in 7 day events.) But, you will still have some flexibility in choosing days to push for more clears if you want to do less on another.

    This also helps hardcore players gather resources for leveling/champing.  So it's not all bad.
  • vinsensual
    vinsensual Posts: 458 Mover and Shaker
    If the entitled argument is the normal response to those asking for more rewards, what's the response to those who trivialize going from 4 clears to 5 clears? 
  • Uncletas
    Uncletas Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    I also wonder if they will increase difficulty. There was a video last month where they discussed that they wanted people with not fully developed rosters to not be able tool play as well in the higher SCL. More rewards, more time. Will they increase difficulty next and say basically every f you can't beat it 5 times you are in the wrong SCL?
  • nonnel
    nonnel Posts: 128 Tile Toppler
    edited May 2017
    Please tell me that you fixed wave nodes in the calculation so we don't have to clear them 5x

    @Brigby
  • Alsmir
    Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
    GrumpySmurf1002 said:
    GurlBYE said:

    This playerbase is just grossly polarized between Intensely Hardcore, and mobile game casual.

    Sorry, I'm not really buying the premise that people doing 4 clears are 'casual.' 4 clears is at least an hour, if not more. Throw in DDQ, and you're at a likely minimum of 90 minutes a day, without discussing PvP, Sim, LRs, or the actual time consuming process of opening tokens, leveling rosters, etc.

    90 minutes a day is not casual. (it's not Hardcore either of course)
    But it's not just "90 minutes per day".  For me it's fairly regular to have days when I have maybe 10 mins to play max. That's it. It doesn't matter the slightest that the next day I will be able to put in 3hrs of play. I miss one sub and the final reward is gone. I used to be able to sometimes make up for it with doing as much as 6 clears on most nodes in 1-2 subs, but now that possibility is gone.

    Furthermore, my reasonable goal was 4* cover and 10 cp. Now 20% of that cp is gone.

    Btw, DDQ takes 15 minutes max, I consider LRs an event for people with no life and shield SIM is jst a grind on the last weekend of the season.

    So, yes, I consider myself casual and new additions hurt me and create even bigger gap between me and hardcore players. As long as there are no seperate brackets for casual and hardcore, this is an issue.

    Gauntlet is the only progression based PvE rigt now, and these changes don't even slightly bring regular PvE close to gauntlet's reward system.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,301 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    I am mixed about the change.  I think the change to 7 day events is really good and makes them far more worthwhile to play.  I am not happy about changes to 3/4 day events.  I am generally a 4 clear PvE player.  I usually don't grind nodes past that point unless I really think I have a chance at placement (which is rare).  Now I will have to clear 5 times to get top progression (which is the 15 CP still I imagine).  So in effect, I will have to increase my playing time about 25%.  The added rewards to the 3/4 day events is not worth 25% more time imo. This game already consumes too much time, I believe this change makes it more likely that people will now spend more time, something I just read the devs thought wasn't a good goal regarding changes to progression.

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