Update to Progression Rewards in Story Events (5/18/17)

Magic

The question is this:

Can I do 4 clears of all and then hit the trivial nodes 2 times and essentials once (or twice) to get full progression? I mean to do it in the last hour of the even, when points get back up a bit. 

If the change allows me to skip 3 hard, non essential nodes then I might be fine with it overall. Otherwise I will not be.


One thing it does for sure - on non-new releases the SCL8 will be more full of players. And hopefully this will speed up the SCL9 and 10. 

DrDevilDinosaur

sh81 said:

DrDevilDinosaur said:

So I got to 4/6 clears and points are degraded, can I do my 5th clear immediately and still hit final progression? I don't want to have to set an alarm just to play the game. I used to just do the 4 clears at my leisure and I was happy with getting progression rewards. Now I don't know what to do. Why was this even changed anyway? Just go back to the old system of 4 clears. If you want to give us extra rewards, thank you - it's appreciated bit don't make us work harder.

<snip>

Personally, in your shoes, Id opt for the second.  Its a more efficient way of playing, requires minimal extra effort, and nets you a lot more in return.

Thanks for your response. My problem is I don't do those first 4 clears at the same time each day. Sometimes I might be able to play as soon as a sub opens. Sometimes I might be rushing to complete them before it expires. Sometimes I complete a few clears every hour, and use the full day to clear through a sub. I can't plan in advance to play in any one particular style.

Sure, we may very well be talking about a matter of 10-15 minutes, but that's time that I already don't know if I'll have available. I think this is a big enough change for me to quit - but that's exactly what it's designed to do, so I don't expect a backflip on this decision.

cooperbigdaddy

So if one doesn't have the 4* essential character, how many clears do we need to do to get
A) the 4* progression reward?
full progression?
C) full progression once we get the 4* progression reward?

zodiac339

vinsensual said:

This is dumb, why not just make the timers start at 5 clears instead of 4?  Coming up with recalculations for 4 full clears plus xx% of a 5th is so convoluted. 

Because if the timer started at 5, competitors would be forced to do 8 clears total every time.

abominatrix

I didn't see an announcement on this, although I may have missed something.

This thread seems pretty confident that max progression is 4 clears plus a 2/3 point 5th clear. However, the initial announcement was different than this, and pretty much implied that you'd have to do almost 6 clears to get progression.

Is this actually explained anywhere? I had been playing 4 clears plus whatever I had time for at the end of the sub (checkbox all of the easy nodes, and extras if time allowed); Does anybody actually know how much more is required?

Thanks.

A_McB

Agree with the common comments. It was already too long per day to get 4 completions for top prog. Now, unless you have the required character (which may be extremely difficult after a new cover is released) you are practically exclude from full rewards. Also, there were 10cp available for 2 completions per mission, and 15 at top, which was 25 total. It was attainable for most and keep flow of roster maturation flowing. Now there are more total, but only 8 for 3 mission completes (less for more playing). I would've liked to see the full point battle drop from 4 to 3, lower the top tiers completion requirements of prog, and possibly add leg cover token or other reward for the die-hards that want to green check all the battles. 

That being said, the devs are doing a great job, the game is great, and overall this is a very responsive community. Thanks.

cooperbigdaddy

I don't know if this is the correct place, but I want to say thank you for making it 3 3 stars and they are 1 or each color! 2 or 3 of the same color would suck, but this is a great addition!

Storm of fire

Coming up on finishing my first sub of the Hunt and not enjoying the change to 5 clears to ensure full progression. Yes, I probably do between 4.5 and 5 clears on average, but I do not enjoy the way I'm aware I have to do that number now in order to reach progression.
I do enjoy the prospect of more rewards, especially for the 7 day events, which were in dire need of better incentives to play the entire event. And I do appreciate that the devs have listened to players who clear/checkmark nodes who desired more rewards than the meagre node rewards and the potential rewards offered by placing well.

I was ok with the previous PvE change from 3 optimal clears to 4 clears done at any point in their subs, since that obviously made things easier if you couldn't handle the 8 hourly scheduling needed for optimal points. Yes, the 5 clears can still be done at any time, and a lot of competitive players will still be doing 6+ clears in order to place, but it still seems like a lot of extra effort for rewards that aren't really worth it, especially in 3/4 day events. (I know the math is 25% more effort for ~40% more rewards, but given node scaling it feels like more.)

That perceived extra effort means I would've appreciated that rewards such as the 25 CP total remained at the 4 clear mark, whilst the extra rewards were placed along the line to the 5 clear mark, especially if these rewards were aimed at those desiring placement and were doing 5+ clears.
If however they were meant to appease the userbase by making resources more available, I'm not sure why the goalposts were moved. Moving them does nothing except encourage overgrinding in order to place since more people are likely to be doing more clears.

Personally, I'd like to see node rewards change based on CL rather than adding more to progression as the PvE reward structure stands and I hope that is a possibility for the future.
If placement rewards are ever to be removed, then I'd be happy to see better and extra rewards placed at 5, 6 and even 7 clear point marks. And then never try to get them because 7 optimal clears is too much

broll

zodiac339 said:

vinsensual said:

This is dumb, why not just make the timers start at 5 clears instead of 4?  Coming up with recalculations for 4 full clears plus xx% of a 5th is so convoluted. 

Because if the timer started at 5, competitors would be forced to do 8 clears total every time.

Not really.  If they keep the hard cap after 7 where the nodes drop to 0-3 doing an 8th wouldn't matter all that much.  At most it would have people grinding the hardest for 3 over and over and I can't see that being a thing for a long time.

Khanwulf

mexus said:

KingDon said:

I wanted to wait until the event was up and I had played some rounds before commenting.

For the record, I am on day 1263 (SCL 8) I am in the 4* transition, with 9 champed 4*s, 2 more on the chopping block (4hor and Teen Jean) and 0 of the 'latest' 12 fully covered or champed, with 555 CP and 1.6million of iso in the bank

My play style at the moment is to play pve up to the 4* cover (if I want it) or the very minimum the 2nd set of 5 CP's and to get up to 575 on pve (which I tend to do 1 in every 2 pvp's and split over 2 days (1st day to 300, 2nd day to 575)) and the DDP

I am happy with this level of play as it generates me all of the resources that I need to progress my roster, with the most valuable to me (at present) being the CP's which I need to open LT's to get 4*'s to cover the current 12 and luck out and get bonus 4*'s for the older ones that I have yet to champ ( through BH I have champed iceman, rulk and cyk since it was introduced so I am convinced that this is a viable way of champing the older 4*'s) without having to spend too long each day playing (I would say that I play about 1 - 1.5hrs each day with most of this on my ciggie breaks at work)

However now, we get some changes to the rewards and while at 1st glance they look great...more iso, more 3*'s, more HP's and more CP's...who would not want that, they have moved these to further down the rewards, meaning that you will need to complete more rounds to get these rewards.

However i feel that this is not a good change, sure for some players they will not see only benefits as they complete full clears of every sub every day and therefore will hit full progression and deservingly receive all rewards.

But for those players whom do not fit into this group, the most essential resource (CP) has been moved and now requires much more game-play to received. i know that i am in the minority with the CP need and that iso is the resource in demand but for me its CP (i have 1.6mill of iso and mange the flow nicely so i never go below 1 mill)

What this says to me (rather cynically) is that the developers do not want the casual player to progress further than the 3* land, By moving the CP, the flow of it will slow to a trickle and thusly my ability to cover the 4*'s and progress further in the game will slow.

I cannot say that i like this change and it is making me want to play PVE less instead or more (which i am sure is what the developers want)  but don't have the time or desire to do 4/5 clears each day of the same events time and time again....

At the same time you have to agree, if you look at it from the developers point of view, that it's beneficial  to make changes that leads to people spending more time playing the game?

If the developers wish to encourage more time playing the game then adding rewards for additional play would be appropriate.

MOVING rewards out of an attainable time-range (3-4 clears for 10 or 25 CP) and stacking all CP at 4-5 clears is literally enraging and makes me just want to uninstall the game and stop giving you money. 

They have reduced CP flow, just as the community has been telling them that their vaulting change severely hampered the ability to obtain 4* pulls, leading to very few 4* Bonus Heroes, making vaulted 4*s essentially unobtainable. So now, instead of 2-3 pulls per week in CP, there will be 1 pull. In a year, statistically, 3 Bonus Heroes instead of 9. So once a given, new hero moves out of the Latest 12, they will be unfinishable short of appearing in event progression rewards.

Well done Developer Heroes! You've nuked the city from orbit! Problem solved--no more 3->4 progression!

I'm approaching this from the standpoint of players who are (were?) attempting 3->4 transition, have barely enough free time for 4 PvE clears and a 3* roster champion strength heavily tested by higher-level nodes. I think this is representative for many players not trying to obtain placement rewards. 

This... sums things up:


--Khanwulf

therightwaye

It's always the same time in MPQU.

Zobaken

There is only one thing I'd like to know: why Demi and D3 hates us so much and forces such struggle upon our heads? I guess being paid and making the game community grow feels too bad for them.

favabear

sh81 said:

Were I in the situation of doing just the 4 clears, I would look at this and decide it well worth the extra 15 minutes effort to get all that extra reward.

I'd appreciate it if people would stop arbitrarily declaring how much time these extra clears are going to take. Roster strength varies from person to person and from event to event. It's not going to take the same amount of time for everyone and I know that an extra clear at maximum difficulty is going to take a hell of a lot more than 15 minutes for me.

Even if it were only an extra 15 minutes, it might not sound like a lot, but we're talking about 15 minutes a day. Anyone who doesn't have oodles of free time on their hands can appreciate the difference. People can learn how to play instruments from scratch with a commitment like that.

I mean, come on. This is a game at the end of the day. If you have to convince me to play more of it, isn't there a problem here?

I feel like a lot of people are creating a false dichotomy with this change: either the devs keep the new system (which benefits some and hurts others) or go back to the old system. That creates an us vs them mentality with the veterans fighting the more casual players. But there's no reason we can't be on the same page here! You can keep your added 5 clear rewards, but let the us also keep some semblance of what we were getting before. There's no reason that we should have to pay for your buffs. Devs just need to tweak this to make most people happy and it wouldn't even be difficult.

A_McB

sh81 said:

If you read my posts fully you would realise I was talking about four or five nodes in 15 minutes (once points had sufficiently built up), rather than a full clear early in the sub.

And I maintain, it is 15 minutes.  Its really not that big a deal.  BUT, if it is a big deal to you, then stop playing.

It is a game, you arent forced into anything.

I think when the dust settles most will accept an extra 15 minutes for the extra rewards is worth it.

It may only be an extra 15 minutes with a roster your size, but that is not the case for everyone. I agree that the largest players in the game can be excited about these changes, but it was at the cost of ostracizing the larger mid-level rosters. It is now a lot harder to make the jump to the top tier.

favabear

sh81 said:

If you read my posts fully you would realise I was talking about four or five nodes in 15 minutes (once points had sufficiently built up), rather than a full clear early in the sub.

And I maintain, it is 15 minutes.  Its really not that big a deal.  BUT, if it is a big deal to you, then stop playing.

It is a game, you arent forced into anything.

I think when the dust settles most will accept an extra 15 minutes for the extra rewards is worth it.

I read your whole post just fine. I just don't think your math checks out, and I don't think you can extrapolate your experiences for the whole community.

And play vs quit is another false dichotomy. Demiurge would go under pretty quickly if they adopted the mentality of "If you don't like it, get out." They encourage feedback to shape the game, and that's exactly why we're all here.

Tee

For the sake of complaining about something other than max progression, it feels like an odd slap in the face to have less rewards in the bottom tiers of the events and pushing larger bulks of rewards at the end. Just don't get that same feeling of, well, progression going through them.

Alsmir

Either everyone moved to CL8 or this just managed to kill the game a little bit. 

Slightly over 12 hrs into the first sub of The Hunt, CL7, last time slice, a total of 7 people have completed 4 clears or more. I know that there is Gamora required, but this is unbelieveable. I have just 3 guys that are doing optimal clears. What the ***?

Seriously, is everyone and their dog in CL8 or what?

smkspy

I get the complaints, but as someone that hits the nodes 6-7 times it doesn't affect me very much.

My one complaint is that they left the 5 node reward the same. They could have increased it to someone better to add a little more enticement for player on the fence to want to hit it.

tiomono

sh81 said:

If you read my posts fully you would realise I was talking about four or five nodes in 15 minutes (once points had sufficiently built up), rather than a full clear early in the sub.

And I maintain, it is 15 minutes.  Its really not that big a deal.  BUT, if it is a big deal to you, then stop playing.

It is a game, you arent forced into anything.

I think when the dust settles most will accept an extra 15 minutes for the extra rewards is worth it.

So we aren't forced into a 5th clear for max progression when previously it was 4 clears?

Vhailorx

Alsmir said:

Either everyone moved to CL8 or this just managed to kill the game a little bit. 

Slightly over 12 hrs into the first sub of The Hunt, CL7, last time slice, a total of 7 people have completed 4 clears or more. I know that there is Gamora required, but this is unbelieveable. I have just 3 guys that are doing optimal clears. What the ***?

Seriously, is everyone and their dog in CL8 or what?

Everyone moved to CL8, as was likely intended by this change.  Why else make the cp jump so much in CL 8 as opposed to all other levels?

But i also think that pmayer participation is down since march.  Wonder why. . .