**** Nick Fury (Director of S.H.I.E.L.D) ****

Unknown

You still get half the damage when you matched your own traps, and 5K for 10 blue is a very respectable ratio even if the opponent can't match any tiles.

Unknown

Also, goons can make matches and set off traps. You just have to let one of their countdown tiles go off and get lucky, which isn't ideal. But Nick spits out so many traps there's a much better chance of it than say with Bagdevil.

Phaserhawk

fsentell wrote:

Can't see anyone not going 3/5/5 with him because those powers are that good. Yellow just requires too much AP for proper use.

Wrong. You realize that you just need 5 red and 5 green to get the utmost dmg out of him. And you are going to get that enroute to collecting 12 yellow for the skill. I think people are severely underestimating his yellow. Yes purple is good. Get a massive strike tile out is sweet. But the only thing you really gain from maxing purple is that 1 less on the CD timer. The 9 random ap steal vs 3 is no big deal in my book. But if you max yellow you are essentially giving your self more tools to win a match. As long as you have the 5 red you do as much dmg as Escaple Plan and if you have green too, well you just cast a mini Ligtning Strike/Call of the Storm combo. If and when I ever get enough Fury covers, I would almost exclusively run him with Hood, just so I can gather AP quicker, not to mention it helps you activate Avenger's Assemble and with Hood's black you can still cast Escape Plan and then reduce the CD timer by 1. No, I think 5/5/3 is gonna be the better build with Fury. I would much rather have a maxed yellow with the ability to do lots of things, then reduce a CD timer by 1 hoping that it goes off and doesn't get destroyed

Unknown

When is Fury going to come out again as a reward?

Spoit

slf02c wrote:

When is Fury going to come out again as a reward?

When they stop selling

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

slf02c wrote:

When is Fury going to come out again as a reward?

When they stop selling

Yes, and then maybe they'll trickle down to us cheapskates. Many a token will be opened that day, and the army of Bagmen will sweep across plains, bridge the mighty rivers, and climb the tallest mountains. They will lead us to a better place. It will be glorious.

Leugenesmiff

Phaserhawk wrote:

fsentell wrote:

Can't see anyone not going 3/5/5 with him because those powers are that good. Yellow just requires too much AP for proper use.

Wrong. You realize that you just need 5 red and 5 green to get the utmost dmg out of him. And you are going to get that enroute to collecting 12 yellow for the skill. I think people are severely underestimating his yellow. Yes purple is good. Get a massive strike tile out is sweet. But the only thing you really gain from maxing purple is that 1 less on the CD timer. The 9 random ap steal vs 3 is no big deal in my book. But if you max yellow you are essentially giving your self more tools to win a match. As long as you have the 5 red you do as much dmg as Escaple Plan and if you have green too, well you just cast a mini Ligtning Strike/Call of the Storm combo. If and when I ever get enough Fury covers, I would almost exclusively run him with Hood, just so I can gather AP quicker, not to mention it helps you activate Avenger's Assemble and with Hood's black you can still cast Escape Plan and then reduce the CD timer by 1. No, I think 5/5/3 is gonna be the better build with Fury. I would much rather have a maxed yellow with the ability to do lots of things, then reduce a CD timer by 1 hoping that it goes off and doesn't get destroyed

Comment changed since it seems reprimanding someone for being rude seems to be less desirable than the actual rudeness. Go figure.

Phaserhawk

Leugenesmiff wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

fsentell wrote:

Can't see anyone not going 3/5/5 with him because those powers are that good. Yellow just requires too much AP for proper use.

Wrong. You realize that you just need 5 red and 5 green to get the utmost dmg out of him. And you are going to get that enroute to collecting 12 yellow for the skill. I think people are severely underestimating his yellow. Yes purple is good. Get a massive strike tile out is sweet. But the only thing you really gain from maxing purple is that 1 less on the CD timer. The 9 random ap steal vs 3 is no big deal in my book. But if you max yellow you are essentially giving your self more tools to win a match. As long as you have the 5 red you do as much dmg as Escaple Plan and if you have green too, well you just cast a mini Ligtning Strike/Call of the Storm combo. If and when I ever get enough Fury covers, I would almost exclusively run him with Hood, just so I can gather AP quicker, not to mention it helps you activate Avenger's Assemble and with Hood's black you can still cast Escape Plan and then reduce the CD timer by 1. No, I think 5/5/3 is gonna be the better build with Fury. I would much rather have a maxed yellow with the ability to do lots of things, then reduce a CD timer by 1 hoping that it goes off and doesn't get destroyed

Wrong. (Actually I have no idea, all I read was your "wrong" and figured this isn't the type of guy that I'm interested in what he has to say.)

So you are the typical person who only wants to hear what they want to hear regardless if you are right or wrong?

eidehua

Leugenesmiff wrote:

Wrong. (Actually I have no idea, all I read was your "wrong" and figured this isn't the type of guy that I'm interested in what he has to say.)

Wrong. (He follows up his claim with a feasible argument).

Unknown

eidehua wrote:

Leugenesmiff wrote:

Wrong. (Actually I have no idea, all I read was your "wrong" and figured this isn't the type of guy that I'm interested in what he has to say.)

Wrong. (He follows up his claim with a feasible argument).

Wrong! (I have nothing to add really, it just looked like fun. Umm...Nick Fury is cool? I like puppies? I'm going to go now. )

Unknown

I've been thinking about the yellow versus purple and assuming 4 tiles matched per turn and that 25% of the board can be matched at any given time, and that level 4 for purple and yellow aren't significant enough for you to care what they do, the breakdown is actually very simple. It's simply the damage done by green (is it done to everyone or the two non targeted guys) versus 20% improvement on Escape Plan on offense and 33.3% improvement on defense. I'll assume green does 2000 damage to 3 people because I don't have any other stats to work with, so we get the following breakdown:

We assume on offense you have enough green 100% of the time because you can just wait until you have 5 green, so Escape Plan has to do 5*(2000*3) = 30000 damage to beat Avengers Assemble on offense. This is an amount that will usually kill the other team which Escape Plan most certainly does not do, so Avengers Assemble is way better on offense. Note that this doesn't mean Avengers Assemble beats Escape Plan overall, but the tradeoff between 5th yellow versus 5th purple on offense would require Escape Plan to do more than 30000 damage to give up the 5th yellow cover.

On defense I'll assume you have enough green to trigger it 50% of the time, so Escape Plan has to do 3*(2000*3)*0.5 = 9000 damage on defense. You can play around with the % chance you're supposed to have enough green tiles and how much of the board is matchable at any given time (higher is better for Escape Plan) though I think these numbers are fairly favorable for Escape Plan already.

So the conclusion I get is that Avengers Assemble is vastly better on offense, while Escape Plan is likely better on defense. However, since Nick Fury already brings a ton of offense, perhaps it's worth sacrificing some offense for better defense. The results are that way because you gain relatively little for Escape Plan on offense, because the computer makes no attempt to try to match the tile so you can estimate its chance of being destroyed by the average tile matched which means the improvement from 3 to 2 turn CD is small, while Avengers Assemble will almost always have enough to do its green component on offense. On defense, the situation is reversed. You can't count on the AI to always have enough AP, so the effect of the 5th cover is diminished. On the other hand, since a human will always try to destroy the Escape Plan tile, this makes the improvement from 3 to 2 CD a much bigger impact.

The 20% figure for offense assumes you're just as likely to destroy your own CD tile so it's probably lower than that. The consideration for what the yellow, red, or purple powers segment of Avengers Assemble has no relevance because you can't refund those covers for a 6th level of Demolition or something else.

Spoit

Of course, it's all theory until someone actually goes and checks the numbers. (Or IceIX returns for a one day only special event. SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY. Come one come all)

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

I've been thinking about the yellow versus purple and assuming 4 tiles matched per turn and that 25% of the board can be matched at any given time, and that level 4 for purple and yellow aren't significant enough for you to care what they do, the breakdown is actually very simple. It's simply the damage done by green (is it done to everyone or the two non targeted guys) versus 20% improvement on Escape Plan on offense and 33.3% improvement on defense. I'll assume green does 2000 damage to 3 people because I don't have any other stats to work with, so we get the following breakdown:

We assume on offense you have enough green 100% of the time because you can just wait until you have 5 green, so Escape Plan has to do 5*(2000*3) = 30000 damage to beat Avengers Assemble on offense. This is an amount that will usually kill the other team which Escape Plan most certainly does not do, so Avengers Assemble is way better on offense. Note that this doesn't mean Avengers Assemble beats Escape Plan overall, but the tradeoff between 5th yellow versus 5th purple on offense would require Escape Plan to do more than 54000 damage to give up the 5th yellow cover.

On defense I'll assume you have enough green to trigger it 50% of the time, so Escape Plan has to do 3*(2000*3)*0.5 = 9000 damage on defense. You can play around with the % chance you're supposed to have enough green tiles and how much of the board is matchable at any given time (higher is better for Escape Plan) though I think these numbers are fairly favorable for Escape Plan already.

So the conclusion I get is that Avengers Assemble is vastly better on offense, while Escape Plan is likely better on defense. However, since Nick Fury already brings a ton of offense, perhaps it's worth sacrificing some offense for better defense. The results are that way because you gain relatively little for Escape Plan on offense, because the computer makes no attempt to try to match the tile so you can estimate its chance of being destroyed by the average tile matched which means the improvement from 3 to 2 turn CD is small, while Avengers Assemble will almost always have enough to do its green component on offense. On defense, the situation is reversed. You can't count on the AI to always have enough AP, so the effect of the 5th cover is diminished. On the other hand, since a human will always try to destroy the Escape Plan tile, this makes the improvement from 3 to 2 CD a much bigger impact.

The 20% figure for offense assumes you're just as likely to destroy your own CD tile so it's probably lower than that. The consideration for what the yellow, red, or purple powers segment of Avengers Assemble has no relevance because you can't refund those covers for a 6th level of Demolition or something else.

great analysis. The one thing I would add, is while having the CD from 3 to 2 makes a bigger impact against the player, if the CD tile does resolve the AP stolen is meh, its that strike tile. However, unless you can kill a player with the next move, the opposing player still can destroy that strike tile whereas the Avengers Assemble is obviously permanent once resolved.

I do not feel yellow is superior to purple, I just think people are completely short-changing Avenger's Assemble. The AP requirement for all of the skills to resolve is high yes, but you only need the red and the green. Everything else is gravy. In addition you probably are going to have the purple and possibly blue anyway since you will be saving up for Demolition or Escape Plan, because let's face it, as long as Fury is on your team, defensively you aren't going to want another blue or purple user to mess with that. However that does create the situation you stated, red and green may not be there which is what makes Avenger's Assemble so lethal.

Perhaps the best way to look at Fury is what team combo makes him the strongest? With his high AP costs I think you almost always want to pair him with the Hood. Hood will take the early game damage off of him on the defensive standpoint and offensively will accelerate you into casting his abilities. However, you are still lacking a red and green user, which thankfully we have a lot of. So that leaves you with BWGS, Human Torch, Sentry, She-Hulk, Mohawk, Hulk, Punisher, Thor and Patch as 3rd members. You can scratch off BWGS, She-Hulk, Hulk, Mohawk right away, leaving you with Torch, Sentry, Punisher, Thor and Patch as your 3rd members to Fury and Hood and each will have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Torch--too squishy, but strong
Sentry--enough said, but he makes Avengers Assemble worthless
Punisher--will weaken the defensive strength of Avengers Assemble but a very solid member
Thor--has a high enough costed green and yellow that Avengers Assemble can work
Patch--no competing yellow, red high costed but weak due to only tanking 2 colors, can

This is where Avengers Assemble fails is on the defensive end. Your 2 best choices of having the skill resolve with enough red and green AP are Thor and Wolvie, but Patch is essentially a one trick pony as your red will not do very much dmg due to hood and fury taking all colors but red and green. Thor will probably work the best on the defensive standpoint. green is high enough you are bound to have 5 green when you get enough yellow to cast Avengers Assemble, but....it also costs the same as Lightning Strike so there is no guarentee the AI will use it. In addition his red is low enough in cost you may not have the red AP.

So what Phantron said is very much true. On offense Avengers Assemble is much stronger than Escape Plan, on defense Escape Plan is better unless you can configure your team comp to ensure Avengers Assemble is cast. Hood can help you get those extra AP, but unless you run with no red or green AP users you only have one choice and that's Thor.

FYI a fun cunundrum is that if you choose to run Sentry, you wont get Avengers Assemble on Defense, however with Sentry and his Sacrifice you don't need Escape Plan's strike tile anymore since you have Sacrifice.

In short summation and to confirm Phantron's findings.

---

5/5/3 Fury---best offensive version of the character
3/5/5 Fury---best defensive version of the character

and it's either one of these two builds, anything else is very suboptimal

Unknown

5/5/3 is the fun build too... It's not hard to build it up on offense and watch it just run a train on someone. I chuckle and smile every time.... which is priceless

The stun off blue is pretty awesome too as you can hit up a Daken, Hulk, Patch (& soon Marvel) and stop their healing / tile spewing / AP Gen.

Unknown

One thing I glossed over is team composition, as I assume Fury has the best/only skill of all 3 colors. If you include Thor, there's only a 50% chance whether Avengers Assemble will be used at all on defense (same cost), which drives its value down to 25% (50% chance it'll be used, 50% chance you'll have enough green) which puts Escape Plan easily over it on defense. You can even argue that Thunder Strike is better than Avengers Assemble so you'll use it 0% of the time on offense too. If you're pairing Fury with Thor, 3/5/5 is probably best just because Thunder Strike likely does trump Avengers Assemble. It's far less certain for even Sentry, the other major yellow powerhouse. As powerful as Sacrifice is, it does not immediately end the game like Thunder Strike often does, and there are certainly a lot of ways to stop it and it's pretty bad on defense against a prepared opponent. Due to a lack of meaningful purple power, Escape Plan will almost always get used. Even if you pair him up with Magneto, 10 and 12 AP both require 4 matches, so you'll probably get Escape Plan over MT most of the time.

Unknown

Just to jump in on the team composition conversation, redundant colors on defense is not the worst thing in the world as long as they're all good. Chances are your defensive team isn't going to just blow the doors off your attackers with zero casualties, so if you're going to win it's likely to be at the end of a bloodbath with one or two of your guys down. If your "brilliant" AI stand-in has been collecting yellow and Fury goes down, you're still in line for a Thunder Strike, to use the LThor pairing as an example. You don't want **** powers clogging up the works, which is one of the things that makes someone like She-Hulk troublesome for PvP because her green is so terrible, but redundant good powers can actually be a good thing.

Phaserhawk

Phantron wrote:

One thing I glossed over is team composition, as I assume Fury has the best/only skill of all 3 colors. If you include Thor, there's only a 50% chance whether Avengers Assemble will be used at all on defense (same cost), which drives its value down to 25% (50% chance it'll be used, 50% chance you'll have enough green) which puts Escape Plan easily over it on defense. You can even argue that Thunder Strike is better than Avengers Assemble so you'll use it 0% of the time on offense too. If you're pairing Fury with Thor, 3/5/5 is probably best just because Thunder Strike likely does trump Avengers Assemble. It's far less certain for even Sentry, the other major yellow powerhouse. As powerful as Sacrifice is, it does not immediately end the game like Thunder Strike often does, and there are certainly a lot of ways to stop it and it's pretty bad on defense against a prepared opponent. Due to a lack of meaningful purple power, Escape Plan will almost always get used. Even if you pair him up with Magneto, 10 and 12 AP both require 4 matches, so you'll probably get Escape Plan over MT most of the time.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Leugenesmiff wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

fsentell wrote:

Can't see anyone not going 3/5/5 with him because those powers are that good. Yellow just requires too much AP for proper use.

Wrong. You realize that you just need 5 red and 5 green to get the utmost dmg out of him. And you are going to get that enroute to collecting 12 yellow for the skill. I think people are severely underestimating his yellow. Yes purple is good. Get a massive strike tile out is sweet. But the only thing you really gain from maxing purple is that 1 less on the CD timer. The 9 random ap steal vs 3 is no big deal in my book. But if you max yellow you are essentially giving your self more tools to win a match. As long as you have the 5 red you do as much dmg as Escaple Plan and if you have green too, well you just cast a mini Ligtning Strike/Call of the Storm combo. If and when I ever get enough Fury covers, I would almost exclusively run him with Hood, just so I can gather AP quicker, not to mention it helps you activate Avenger's Assemble and with Hood's black you can still cast Escape Plan and then reduce the CD timer by 1. No, I think 5/5/3 is gonna be the better build with Fury. I would much rather have a maxed yellow with the ability to do lots of things, then reduce a CD timer by 1 hoping that it goes off and doesn't get destroyed

Wrong. (Actually I have no idea, all I read was your "wrong" and figured this isn't the type of guy that I'm interested in what he has to say.)

So you are the typical person who only wants to hear what they want to hear regardless if you are right or wrong?

Wrong. He was pointing out how rude it was to start your comment off with "wrong," and how such rude people aren't who he chooses to listen to. Funny how he was down voted for it. I applaud him. Someone should school kids these days on manners on the internet. It's like they forget they're talking to real people.

Unknown

Thepenismightier wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Leugenesmiff wrote:

Wrong. (Actually I have no idea, all I read was your "wrong" and figured this isn't the type of guy that I'm interested in what he has to say.)

So you are the typical person who only wants to hear what they want to hear regardless if you are right or wrong?

Wrong. He was pointing out how rude it was to start your comment off with "wrong," and how such rude people aren't who he chooses to listen to. Funny how he was down voted for it. I applaud him. Someone should school kids these days on manners on the internet. It's like they forget they're talking to real people.

There are real people on the internet? Where!?
Maybe you could add to your list of complaints people who take things too personally and forget the dangers of trying to read tone into text.

over_clocked

In case someone doesn't want to part with their level 5 Avengers Assemble TU, I recorded how it looks (sheesh! It's speedy).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x54DV7CxwxU