Answers To The 8 Questions About Vaulting (5/2/17)

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  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    Brigby said:

    I’m Dave Guskin

    ...

    #3 - What is in place for those who want to level evenly?

    We think players who want to level more evenly will still have a vastly improved experience. You’ll find that token pulls reward more covers to the latest characters, so instead of leveling forty characters that have 1-5 covers, you'll be leveling twelve characters plus Bonus Heroes that have 10+ covers.

    We understand that players have different play styles, and we want to support as many as we can. More fundamentally, we want players to always feel a sense of progress, especially week to week. By focusing on a narrower band of characters, players can still choose to level a lot of characters evenly, but will see more noticeable gains across those characters.

    So, What is in place for those who want to level evenly?

     
    #7 - Is this change meant to slow (or in some cases eliminate) champing?

    We had, perhaps incorrectly, felt that we had provided enough opportunities to continue to collect covers for older (out of packs) 4-stars via event rewards. We’re evaluating this assumption and are open to feedback - we don’t think we’ve gotten it quite right yet. We’ve already been trying to find limited ways to make these characters more available, such as the off-season Vintage Heroic store. We’ve got more work to do here, so stay tuned.

    I like that there is a recognition of more work required here, but I'm concerned both because it feels like we've got a 5 gallon bucket here and 2 table spoons have been dumped in and we're hearing "Wow, I'm spent, but we've got some more work to do" and because of the use of "limited ways to make these characters more available"

    We get multiple heroic tokens per day, but 2-4 vintage heroic tokens per season, I'll pull more 5*s than I'll pull vaulted 3*s per season... I don't get a sense agreement on how far out of balance we are...


     
    #8 - If enough people voice concern, would you be willing to end vaulting?

    Yes.

    Uhhh...  pants on fire?

    Whats your threshold?  This single issue has dominated all forum traffic for months now.  Take a look at the forums before vaulting and then after vaulting...  its impacting your feedback mechanism to the point where its making it difficult to provide feedback WITHOUT it turning into another referendum on vaulting. 

    I'm trying to figure out how this statement doesn't make it clear that the devs and designers are out of touch with the forum-going playerbase.

    @Brigby are they getting accurate feedback that this dominates all forum discussion?



  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017

      #8 - If enough people voice concern, would you be willing to end vaulting?

    Yes.

    Uhhh...  pants on fire?

    Whats your threshold?  This single issue has dominated all forum traffic for months now.  Take a look at the forums before vaulting and then after vaulting...  its impacting your feedback mechanism to the point where its making it difficult to provide feedback WITHOUT it turning into another referendum on vaulting. 

    I'm trying to figure out how this statement doesn't make it clear that the devs and designers are out of touch with the forum-going playerbase.

    @Brigby are they getting accurate feedback that this dominates all forum discussion?



    I suspect "everyone on this forum" is not a sufficient threshold even if 100% of users were against vaulting (which is not the case).
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

      #8 - If enough people voice concern, would you be willing to end vaulting?

    Yes.

    Uhhh...  pants on fire?

    Whats your threshold?  This single issue has dominated all forum traffic for months now.  Take a look at the forums before vaulting and then after vaulting...  its impacting your feedback mechanism to the point where its making it difficult to provide feedback WITHOUT it turning into another referendum on vaulting. 

    I'm trying to figure out how this statement doesn't make it clear that the devs and designers are out of touch with the forum-going playerbase.

    @Brigby are they getting accurate feedback that this dominates all forum discussion?



    I suspect "everyone on this forum" is not a sufficient threshold even if 100% of users were against vaulting (which is not the case).

    Agreed, they could ignore everything on the forum to no real ill effect, there just aren't that many people here...  I'm not arguing that point, I just noted how they specifically stated that if people voice their concern they would end it...

    (I don't think that's a good policy to have regardless, and I don't like vaulting)

    But I'm wondering what the threshold here is, clearly its been the most dramatic outcry from the forum in the last year+...  Are they looking for other users to send in self addressed envelopes or something?  I don't see their angle here by putting that in the post.

  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

      #8 - If enough people voice concern, would you be willing to end vaulting?

    Yes.

    Uhhh...  pants on fire?

    Whats your threshold?  This single issue has dominated all forum traffic for months now.  Take a look at the forums before vaulting and then after vaulting...  its impacting your feedback mechanism to the point where its making it difficult to provide feedback WITHOUT it turning into another referendum on vaulting. 

    I'm trying to figure out how this statement doesn't make it clear that the devs and designers are out of touch with the forum-going playerbase.

    @Brigby are they getting accurate feedback that this dominates all forum discussion?



    I suspect "everyone on this forum" is not a sufficient threshold even if 100% of users were against vaulting (which is not the case).

    Agreed, they could ignore everything on the forum to no real ill effect, there just aren't that many people here...  I'm not arguing that point, I just noted how they specifically stated that if people voice their concern they would end it...

    (I don't think that's a good policy to have regardless, and I don't like vaulting)

    But I'm wondering what the threshold here is, clearly its been the most dramatic outcry from the forum in the last year+...  Are they looking for other users to send in self addressed envelopes or something?  I don't see their angle here by putting that in the post.


    reposting with the quotes correct I hope...  I don't know how they got screwed up...
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor

    OK, I'm not trying to quote for my response...  I'm blaming a horrid browser at work, but its probably a good bit of user error (doesn't help that all the icons are invisible in this **** browser)


    I agree the forum populate is insignificant, they're far under any rounding error in terms of total user base and worse they aren't a representative sampling either.  The response we got in the forum stated that if they had enough people voice their concern they would end vaulting.

    Disregarding the fact that I think that's a silly statement to make, I'm wondering what the threshold is there, it was posted in their official forum for feedback and its inundated that system, so what would constitute "enough" Short of putting out an in game pop up survey are they just saying well if people didn't like it they would write us letters ?

  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    Polares said:
    This is all fantastic, getting these answers two months after Vaulting was released and they were originally posted, but I don't believe Devs anymore.

    This change screwed A LOT of people, and created a big need for hoarding so we could get the iso to champ all these new chars that we were forced to champ independently of our plans/preferences. In all this time, to help with this transition Devs didn't add not even one double iso week, NOT EVEN ONE !!! Devs are sooooo cheap. And they say they don't want us to hoard, well you failed miserably!

    Devs also don't address the MASSIVE difference in rewards in champion levels that we have lost.

    I also don't believe them when they say they are listening for feedback. Vaulting feedback has been mostly negative. A LOT of different solutions have been proposed and Devs have completely ignored those solutions (much much better solutions than the useless vintage store they created)

    I have no more confidence in these Devs, I am done, you have lost me completely, I won't spend money on this game ever again. 


    Its pretty clear this isn't going to make a difference, forum-complaining is just cathartic...


    app/play store rating is another form of feedback, but again no one will care about a handful of people...  you could talk to your alliance about organizing feedback if you're really annoyed...

  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,698 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    I have given up complaining about it, or reading about it in the main because it's clear to me they don't really give two tinykitties what I or anyone else think. So I don't offer feed back on anything any more, it's clearly wasted time I can project into better places, this one though did peak my curiosity. What I do know is I am having to hoard more than ever before and I just might have been able to stomach only getting my older 4* finished with BH if it:

    A. Had a better drop rate, because I have had about 2 since it started.
    B. Let me put a heart not only by a character but by a character colour. There's no way I can risk BH say Bucky at 5/5/2, not at the current BH drop rate.

    To even suggest that as a work round is laughable. The only work around they are really interested in costs you thousands of HP. They might as well be honest and vault all but the latest character and give you a season before they vault it.

    *removed profanity - Ducky
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited May 2017
    Tony Foot said:
    A. Had a better drop rate, because I have had about 2 since it started.
    B. Let me put a heart not only by a character but by a character colour. There's no way I can risk BH say Bucky at 5/5/2, not at the current BH drop rate.

    To even suggest that as a work round is laughable. The only work around they are really interested in costs you thousands of HP. They might as well be honest and vault all but the latest character and give you a season before they vault it.
    Realistically, with or without BH, the best bet for a 5/5/2 is to simply bite the bullet and spend the 120 cp on that last cover if you think the character is worth championing, set him as your bonus until you get one and if it is the wrong colour spend the cp and the dupe will be used to take him to 271 and an LT.
  • Desufnoc23
    Desufnoc23 Posts: 40 Just Dropped In
    Thank you, devs, for giving us this feedback. It does help understand the choices you've made, whether or not everyone agrees with them. 

    Change is scary and in a game like this, players have to make long term plans to be successful. This latest change moved the ball around for everyone and disrupted plans.

    I don't think vaulting was a perfect solution, but having been a player during the previous vaulting of 3*, I recognize that:

    A. There is a very bad dilution problem in the game that has/had to be addressed.
    B. You learned from your previous mistakes and tried to make a better solution.

    There are many on the boards that would disagree with me, I know, but I truly believe those two points.

    Looking forward, I would ask that you communicate a message similar to this for any other future high impacting changes in a timely fashion. I think having the community understand your vision will help. It certainly does for me.


  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards

    as a player that is transitioning to 5* play, I worked very hard as was very close to completing all the 4* champs when vaulting hit (currently 3 unchamped - Elektra, war machine, and venom).  I was looking forward to my boosted 4s approaching 450 as that transition was happening, giving me more options than the 1 or 2 5*s that I started with.  that never happens now and now 95% of my champ levels will be 270-300, which are far less rewarding than those beyond. 

    count me as one in favor of a re-do on the vaulting mechanic.  there are many other options that would ease things, but 5% BH isn't really raising the level of my whole group like a large diluted pool was slowly doing.  instead of BH if we had a few custom slots in the pool (say 15 instead of 12 and 3 were custom chosen vaulted characters).  really there are so many possibilities. 

  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    edited May 2017
    Glad to see it took 2 months to respond with all the bad logic and pure tinykitty.  This is why you can take your game and shove it.  I hope you guys are happy when you keep making all these changes that show how out of touch you are runs the game into the ground.  Nothing you accomplished with vaulting couldn't be addessed without taking most of the characters away from us, but whatever.  Run it into the ground if you want, I'm done.

    **Removed profanity - Ducky
  • alphabeta
    alphabeta Posts: 469 Mover and Shaker
    Utter claptrap 

    while PVE needs a 4* essential not in packs only those finishing in t10 the event before in a high SCL level stand any chance of gaining a cover till after it is needed.

    Vaulting was an utterly stupid decision to begin with and those answers seriously make me worry about how badly the lead developer understands the game play in the game he's developing.

    My feedback - end vaulting 
  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
    Man n25philly...I'll just skip all the parts that would get censored and leave me banned...is it really that hard to see the logic behind the changes? He laid it all out for you as several forumites have been doing for months now and you still call it "bad logic"? There were endless complaints about new releases being meaningless because we couldn't have them fully covered in a reasonable amount of time and even if we did they would be permanently stuck dozens of covers behind older characters and never used. So they make a change to address that complaint, it's not perfect (as admitted right here in this thread!) but they think it does a good job addressing some of OUR OWN COMPLAINTS, and on top of that they implement another change that is literally free covers (okay you still have to spend resources you bought or earned, but it's extra stuff you weren't getting before), but no, it's all just a huge slap in the face and will be the end of game...I just can't with you anymore...I hope you enjoy the next game you play much more than this one.