Ducky said: @Khanwulf I believe Dave admitted they missed the mark in their post regarding the flow of covers for 4* covers that are not currently in tokens. I commend them for doing so because to admit fault on this forum can be a dangerous thing as a dev.
We_are_Venom said: Good info, thanks. What about 5* Classics? Once a 5* moves to Classics, it's pretty much dead weight for many of us that pulled a cover or even a few. It's all but impossible to adequately cover a 5* that moves into Classics. If dilution is the enemy, can't we attack it on all fronts?
Khanwulf said: All right, but if that's the case @Ducky then Devs have very badly bungled in estimating flow of 4* characters into the "vast majority" player. And I can cite myself as I simply don't have the time to struggle for even T100 placement amid other life concerns. Deep 3* champ roster? Check.Extensive, shallowly covered 4* roster? Check.No 4* fully covered let alone champed? Check.So, there are only two reliable paths for obtaining 4* covers: CP and PvE event progression. Versus is too much to obtain the 4* progression, and PvE placement is far, far out of reach.Random token rewards are possible, sure, but unlikely--there are a handful in a given month. So, Bonus 4* heroes are a joke, because they happen so rarely it might as well not exist. So far I've observed one (1) bonus 4* since feature implementation, and that's with regularly hitting full progression during events. So unless there happens to be a vaulted 4* in a progression, or I can advance a 3* far enough to generate a cover, I'm unlikely to ever see it. I'd love to be able to spend CP on a 4*-only token with only the vaulted covers. That would be ideal and I'd gladly burn my supplies into that in the hopes of finishing heroes. And yes, that would mean I'm not spending CP on Latest Legends with the latest releases. Oh well. My choice.--Khanwulf Edit, PS: And yes, even with my very limited, no-where-near-champed roster of the current 12, I can *still* get worthless dupes--at the moment TWO (2!!!) purple Coulson withering away; at nine covers he's not going to be champed in the next 8 days. This will only get worse. Keep in mind these two covers represents more than a week's CP saving....
Uhh they have quite clearly given us the answer, remove the ability to pull from the evil diluted pull and only give access to the few latest heros... I'd expect classic legends as an option to be removed, to fix the problem.
Please see Dave's (answer?) to number three for whats in place for those of us who wish to level those characters:
Brigby said: #3 - What is in place for those who want to level evenly?We think players who want to level more evenly will still have a vastly improved experience. You’ll find that token pulls reward more covers to the latest characters, so instead of leveling forty characters that have 1-5 covers, you'll be leveling twelve characters plus Bonus Heroes that have 10+ covers.We understand that players have different play styles, and we want to support as many as we can. More fundamentally, we want players to always feel a sense of progress, especially week to week. By focusing on a narrower band of characters, players can still choose to level a lot of characters evenly, but will see more noticeable gains across those characters.
#3 - What is in place for those who want to level evenly?
We think players who want to level more evenly will still have a vastly improved experience. You’ll find that token pulls reward more covers to the latest characters, so instead of leveling forty characters that have 1-5 covers, you'll be leveling twelve characters plus Bonus Heroes that have 10+ covers.
We understand that players have different play styles, and we want to support as many as we can. More fundamentally, we want players to always feel a sense of progress, especially week to week. By focusing on a narrower band of characters, players can still choose to level a lot of characters evenly, but will see more noticeable gains across those characters.
Crowl said: Tony Foot said: A. Had a better drop rate, because I have had about 2 since it started.B. Let me put a heart not only by a character but by a character colour. There's no way I can risk BH say Bucky at 5/5/2, not at the current BH drop rate.To even suggest that as a work round is laughable. The only work around they are really interested in costs you thousands of HP. They might as well be honest and vault all but the latest character and give you a season before they vault it. Realistically, with or without BH, the best bet for a 5/5/2 is to simply bite the bullet and spend the 120 cp on that last cover if you think the character is worth championing, set him as your bonus until you get one and if it is the wrong colour spend the cp and the dupe will be used to take him to 271 and an LT.
Tony Foot said: A. Had a better drop rate, because I have had about 2 since it started.B. Let me put a heart not only by a character but by a character colour. There's no way I can risk BH say Bucky at 5/5/2, not at the current BH drop rate.To even suggest that as a work round is laughable. The only work around they are really interested in costs you thousands of HP. They might as well be honest and vault all but the latest character and give you a season before they vault it.
GritsNGravy said: 1. Have a way to feed a cover maxed (but not championed) character it's own cover to buy them a level. This would allow thematic character growth and around the level 140+ range would start to be a tangible ISO benefit to the player (when levels start costing more than 1000 ISO). 2. Another idea would be to have a new currency (or system) that tracks how many 4* covers you've sold. Say once you've sold 10-20 of them you get a token that will give you a guaranteed cover from your bonus hero pool. Turn your "bad luck" into consistent progress towards "good luck".
NMANOZ said: Bonus Legendary Vault (20 CP):Covers for the 4 star bonus heroes you have chosen ONLY.
JVReal said: How about you have an option, before you pull your token, to choose between the full pool, or the most recent 12?Some days, like now when I'm sitting with 7 4* covers in queue that I can't use (and for only 2 heroes)... because I need Iso for both of them to champ them and not waste the covers... I'd like to have the option to pull from the diluted pool and hope for a cover I can actually use for Champ levels or for one of my many other 4* characters that aren't at 13 yet. Selling for Iso is the absolute LAST thing I want to do with a cover.So, (like they used to have when they first introduced Latest and Classic), have two icons on the same screen for Latest, and the token works for either one, pull from the pool that you want, restricted or full.
Carnage_78 said: How about 5* dilution in Classic? I understand your arguments for 3/4* characters but shouldn't that also apply to 5*s?I've been trying to get a few of them finished but can't pull the required covers & every time a character gets added to that pool it becomes less & less likely that I will.Any plans to address that issue?
Jaedenkaal said: Carnage_78 said: How about 5* dilution in Classic? I understand your arguments for 3/4* characters but shouldn't that also apply to 5*s?I've been trying to get a few of them finished but can't pull the required covers & every time a character gets added to that pool it becomes less & less likely that I will.Any plans to address that issue? Sure. Once there are more than 12 5*s in classic legendary tokens, they vault the oldest one. XD
broll said: Jaedenkaal said: Carnage_78 said: How about 5* dilution in Classic? I understand your arguments for 3/4* characters but shouldn't that also apply to 5*s?I've been trying to get a few of them finished but can't pull the required covers & every time a character gets added to that pool it becomes less & less likely that I will.Any plans to address that issue? Sure. Once there are more than 12 5*s in classic legendary tokens, they vault the oldest one. XD If they did that I'd probably delete the game and be done.
mohio said: Man n25philly...I'll just skip all the parts that would get censored and leave me banned...is it really that hard to see the logic behind the changes? He laid it all out for you as several forumites have been doing for months now and you still call it "bad logic"? There were endless complaints about new releases being meaningless because we couldn't have them fully covered in a reasonable amount of time and even if we did they would be permanently stuck dozens of covers behind older characters and never used. So they make a change to address that complaint, it's not perfect (as admitted right here in this thread!) but they think it does a good job addressing some of OUR OWN COMPLAINTS, and on top of that they implement another change that is literally free covers (okay you still have to spend resources you bought or earned, but it's extra stuff you weren't getting before), but no, it's all just a huge slap in the face and will be the end of game...I just can't with you anymore...I hope you enjoy the next game you play much more than this one.
#1 - Why the change?
If the problem is dilution, why not do what they did to make newer characters available while also giving those of us who need the access to the old characters? Oh right because because that wouldn't create all kinds of artificial resource shortages to hopefully force people into spending money to move forward. You know because they only way to address dilution is going to the other extreme and causing new problems.
#2 - Should new players be focusing on a smaller pool of heroes now?
What about us that don't have the resources to go into that new pool of heroes? I guess I should go through all my tokens/cp when 80% will be pure waste no matter what (not even counting 5* pulls) Oh wait I can gut my roster of characters I want to actually cover/level so I can go for the ones I don't want and the endless parade of pointless variants. Nothing says fun in a licenced game than not only not being able to cover/level/play as your favorite characters than to have to trash them to likely never get them again. S much fun, what a wonderful system!
Wow, the guy that wrote this should be a political campaign manager, because I don't think I've ever seen anyone stretch the truth this far. Taking characters away makes it easier to roster evenly? Locking everything behind a tiny chance of rng (and lets not even call it 5% since it's 5% based on everyone's pulls that there is no guarantee that you get that 1 in 20 shot) As been said many times since vaulting was introduced, the odds are only good if you only set it to one, add more than that and they get really bad really fast. But hey, ignore problems (like why should I pull in the first place if the odds of it being waste are ridiculously high to begin with and I can't get those wonder rare BH that let us roster evenly if I can't pull tokens anyway) Maybe if you are pulling tons of stuff all of the time this might make some sense but for some of us it is pure ****.
#4 - If vaulting didn’t work in the past, why bring it back?
It's easier than coming up with an actual good idea and forces people into bad situations that will push them into spending more money if they want to move forward. Why get money from customers because they are happy when we can reach into their pockets and try and force it out.
#5 - Is this change designed to encourage hoarding?
I certainly can't speak for everyone but all this change did was force me into hording. I haven't opened a token since the change. Why open them when the odds of pulling something that will be pure waste is so high. So it's try and horde forever to get the resources to be a part of the new wonderful system or stop playing. At this point I am 99% #2 and the last 5 days I literally logged in and played 1 match to get the daily reward and meet requirements to stay in my alliance. Being forced to horde and not progress is not fun.
By the way players need to actually get the iso to level the characters to be able to max them faster. Then again your reasoning might need to be based in reality to notice that.
#6 - With older characters being more of a rarity, how are newcomers supposed to compete for these characters without having these essential characters in the first place?
You guys realize that your game carries the licence for one of the most popular franchises in the world right? That people playing the game want to play as their favorite characters, right? Adding say a token that offers the old characters would let people do that and build the rosters they way they want, still have your way of combating dilution by having the others offer just the 12, and make it look like you give a poop (censored enough?) about your customers. Nope, have the be a knee jerk half baked idea that causes new problems. Besides, combating dilution the intelligent way wouldn't be forceful enough on trying to force people into playing.
#7 - Is this change meant to slow (or in some cases eliminate) champing?
The people answer would be yes, yes, yes, yes. You are getting to many freebies, everyone pay up. Why do bad ideas have to be the only way to open this up. Vintages as an off season reward is a purely stupid idea. Make it a full time token that people could pull as an alternative to normal heroics and it would actually make sense.
#8 - If enough people voice concern, would you be willing to end vaulting?
Translation: No matter how much everyone complains we are going to say that it's the people not on the forums/not speaking up that benefit from the system and the majority isn't complaining. I had plenty of people in my casual alliance that aren't on this board that complained or quit. As said many times why not just make a vintage 4* token that only has the vaulted characters and make the vintage heroics a full time that you can pull your regular heroics on. Makes too much sense? Doesn't do a good enough of a job of trying to force money from people?
It takes two month to answer and it's the same canned poop answers we've been getting from day 1. As I see it the game is intentionally broken and this tells me that they have no interest in fixing it. If vaulting is great for you than enjoy and more power two you. After too months as much as I love the game I am sick of treading water and going nowhere with no good way forward and none in sight. I don't know why you seem to be so insulting that I don't like being put in a horrible position and having my favorite game ruined but I hope you get over it. I am just done. I have lost all faith in the developers giving a poop about the game or us customers. Its a shame, because in these two months I still haven't found a good replacement and I just keep getting more and more stressed out without a good game to break with during my 12-15 hour workdays.
**Removed attacks on the devs and calling out of other posters. Also cleaned up the formatting to make it easier to read - Ducky
Welcome Death said: I dont think vaulting is an issue. I dont think bonus heroes are an issue. 3* bonus heroes seem to come pretty quickly, which is a good thing. 4* BH from heroics / event tokens are basically nil, and I'm ok with that. I do not understand this, though: it was posted in the bonus hero thread, as an edit, that you're actually getting a 17% shot at a bonus hero for each 3* and 4* you pull from heroics. The 5% is from the 2* diluting the pool. That's fine. But if i pull a 4* from the LT store, I'm only getting a 5% bonus for each 4* I pull, same with 5*.
n25philly said: Makes too much sense? Doesn't do a good enough of a job of trying to force money from people?
Makes too much sense? Doesn't do a good enough of a job of trying to force money from people?