Answers To The 8 Questions About Vaulting (5/2/17)

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  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    SuperRecoome said:
    I'm glad we finally got an answer, not too happy that answer locks me out of a 4 star transition.

    As a casual player, I do not earn enough 4 star tokens to max cover a character before they are vaulted. I just don't earn them fast enough. This forever locks me out of the 4 star transition. I've been playing since the game  first came out on steam, and it does kind of suck to be told  you don't play this game in the way we want for the amount of time we want you to play, so  these last few years have been wasted. This makes my legendary tokens worthless. No point in buying them with CP either, so that makes my CP pretty much worthless too. I can save until I can get 1 4 star cover, but even that is expensive. I was a VIP subscriber before, but now the main draws of the VIP are worthless to me, so there's no point in spending.  I dunno, I guess I'm done with MPQ, but not because I want to be. . I'll check in on the forums  every month or so and see if anything changes to make the game playable again for me. I was concentrating on maxing my 3 star champs while I waited for this to sort out, but since the official answer is nothing is changing, there's no point in sticking around :-(
    I think you're underestimating how long a 4* character will stay available in tokens. 

    Cloak & Dagger will get added to the tokens tomorrow. At the current release rate (two 4*s every 6 weeks) they'll be in there for 36 weeks, plus or minus a little depending on when the season ends and how many characters are being rotated. (That's sometime around the beginning of January next year)

    How many LTs and CP do you earn in a week? Below a certain amount you were pretty much locked out of the 4* transition anyways. What's your highest covered 4*?
  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:
    @n25philly

    I'm not the one you are replying to, but something you said really stuck out to me.

     "I haven't opened a token since the change."

    Why are you so vehemently opposed to something you haven't even tried yet?  You throw out numbers like "80% unusable" but then say you only play one match a day for the rewards. Of course you can't level up 4* if you don't play.  And if you really have that many of the current 12 maxed but not champed, then hoard.   They said it was an unintended consequence. Hoard your tokens, play pve to progression for the cp and iso rewards, and wait for some people to cycle out.  Is it ideal?  In my opinion, no. Is it worth railing against?  Again, my opinon, based on the last two months of actually using the system, is no.
    I'm not opening tokens, not because I am against the system but because there is no good reason to.  If I pull a legendary right now there is about an 80% chance of pulling someone I can't roster.  Why do that for what is  almost guaranteed to be waste?

    When the change came I played as I normally did for nearly two weeks.  Got nowhere so I started scaling back to playing the DDQ every days and sometimes other stuff.  Then just the DDQ.  Now it's just 1-2 matches to get the daily reward.  I play less and less because I don't see the point.  It's going to take forever to get the hp to roster the 12.  No point in rushing since there is no point in rostering until I get close to having enough for them all.  Even with my old regular play getting 9-10 slots whatever it is will take forever.  After rostering 3* star lord I have almost enough for one slot.

    Level up everyone faster?  lol, I have like 300,000 iso.  Again best to wait until I have enough to level champ a few characters at minimum.  (really best to wait until I can do most of them)

    My not pulling has nothing to do with hating the system but being stuck due to the system.  Why use up resources when they will just go to waste?  The intent was to horde until it made sense but it's just too much and not fun.  I did open all my taco tokens when I did the fill DDQ, so it wasn't really that I opened nothing, just the stuff likely to hurt me by opening.
  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    Jarvind said:
    n25philly said:
     Makes too much sense?  Doesn't do a good enough of a job of trying to force money from people?  Worried you might look competent?
    I mean, I just picked this one example because that was a lot of text, but.

    This may come as a shock, but being openly hostile and telling people they are trash uuuuusually doesn't win them over to your side. See also: recent American presidental elections.
    Gave up on trying to win them or anyone else over a long time ago.  Besides, that might not have been the best example considering who won...
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    n25philly said:
    Spudgutter said:
    @n25philly

    I'm not the one you are replying to, but something you said really stuck out to me.

     "I haven't opened a token since the change."

    Why are you so vehemently opposed to something you haven't even tried yet?  You throw out numbers like "80% unusable" but then say you only play one match a day for the rewards. Of course you can't level up 4* if you don't play.  And if you really have that many of the current 12 maxed but not champed, then hoard.   They said it was an unintended consequence. Hoard your tokens, play pve to progression for the cp and iso rewards, and wait for some people to cycle out.  Is it ideal?  In my opinion, no. Is it worth railing against?  Again, my opinon, based on the last two months of actually using the system, is no.
    I'm not opening tokens, not because I am against the system but because there is no good reason to.  If I pull a legendary right now there is about an 80% chance of pulling someone I can't roster.  Why do that for what is  almost guaranteed to be waste?

    When the change came I played as I normally did for nearly two weeks.  Got nowhere so I started scaling back to playing the DDQ every days and sometimes other stuff.  Then just the DDQ.  Now it's just 1-2 matches to get the daily reward.  I play less and less because I don't see the point.  It's going to take forever to get the hp to roster the 12.  No point in rushing since there is no point in rostering until I get close to having enough for them all.  Even with my old regular play getting 9-10 slots whatever it is will take forever.  After rostering 3* star lord I have almost enough for one slot.

    Level up everyone faster?  lol, I have like 300,000 iso.  Again best to wait until I have enough to level champ a few characters at minimum.  (really best to wait until I can do most of them)

    My not pulling has nothing to do with hating the system but being stuck due to the system.  Why use up resources when they will just go to waste?  The intent was to horde until it made sense but it's just too much and not fun.  I did open all my taco tokens when I did the fill DDQ, so it wasn't really that I opened nothing, just the stuff likely to hurt me by opening.

    So it isn't even an issue of unusable 4* covers, it's that you wouldn't even be able to roster them?!?

    If you are not ready to roster 80% of what is offered in an LT, you are not really in the 4* transition, so most of this conversation doesn't impact you.  

    If you want to take a stance on the vaulted 3*, please do so.  But again, you are no worse off now than you were when they vaulted, and in several peoples opinions, better off.

    You could take 6 months of daily play, with some effort towards PVE, and hoard everything.  By November, you will have plenty of HP and CP to jump into the 4* transition.  And when that happens (assuming nothing changes), you will be pulling from a pool of 12 instead of 50+, almost guaranteeing to max cover several.  With the ISO stored up, you immediately jump from 3* to 4* player.   I don't see how that is such a bad thing.

  • spatenfloot
    spatenfloot Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2017
    Seems like most of the forum concerns could be addressed by:
    doubling the bonus heroes rate
    doubling ALL iso awards in the game (including cover sell)
    removing the 2 stars from Vintage tokens.

  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    spatenfloot said:
    Seems like most of the forum concerns could be addressed by:
    doubling the bonus heroes rate
    doubling ALL iso awards in the game (including cover sell)
    removing the 2 stars from Vintage tokens.

    Nope
  • SuperRecoome
    SuperRecoome Posts: 59 Match Maker
    "I think you're underestimating how long a 4* character will stay available in tokens. 

    Cloak & Dagger will get added to the tokens tomorrow. At the current release rate (two 4*s every 6 weeks) they'll be in there for 36 weeks, plus or minus a little depending on when the season ends and how many characters are being rotated. (That's sometime around the beginning of January next year)

    How many LTs and CP do you earn in a week? Below a certain amount you were pretty much locked out of the 4* transition anyways. What's your highest covered 4*? "

    Since Vaulting happened I've earned 8 LTs and about 100cp. My highest covered is starlord who is missing I think 2 covers to be maxed  so I could put him as a bonus hero and try to max him but he's 5/5/2 so that's 5% chance to get a cover, then after that another 33% chance for it to be the cover I need even after that ,my next highest still needs like 5 covers to max. I have almost all of the 4 stars roster'd  minus most of the ones currently in the packs.
  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:
    n25philly said:
    Spudgutter said:
    @n25philly

    I'm not the one you are replying to, but something you said really stuck out to me.

     "I haven't opened a token since the change."

    Why are you so vehemently opposed to something you haven't even tried yet?  You throw out numbers like "80% unusable" but then say you only play one match a day for the rewards. Of course you can't level up 4* if you don't play.  And if you really have that many of the current 12 maxed but not champed, then hoard.   They said it was an unintended consequence. Hoard your tokens, play pve to progression for the cp and iso rewards, and wait for some people to cycle out.  Is it ideal?  In my opinion, no. Is it worth railing against?  Again, my opinon, based on the last two months of actually using the system, is no.
    I'm not opening tokens, not because I am against the system but because there is no good reason to.  If I pull a legendary right now there is about an 80% chance of pulling someone I can't roster.  Why do that for what is  almost guaranteed to be waste?

    When the change came I played as I normally did for nearly two weeks.  Got nowhere so I started scaling back to playing the DDQ every days and sometimes other stuff.  Then just the DDQ.  Now it's just 1-2 matches to get the daily reward.  I play less and less because I don't see the point.  It's going to take forever to get the hp to roster the 12.  No point in rushing since there is no point in rostering until I get close to having enough for them all.  Even with my old regular play getting 9-10 slots whatever it is will take forever.  After rostering 3* star lord I have almost enough for one slot.

    Level up everyone faster?  lol, I have like 300,000 iso.  Again best to wait until I have enough to level champ a few characters at minimum.  (really best to wait until I can do most of them)

    My not pulling has nothing to do with hating the system but being stuck due to the system.  Why use up resources when they will just go to waste?  The intent was to horde until it made sense but it's just too much and not fun.  I did open all my taco tokens when I did the fill DDQ, so it wasn't really that I opened nothing, just the stuff likely to hurt me by opening.

    So it isn't even an issue of unusable 4* covers, it's that you wouldn't even be able to roster them?!?

    If you are not ready to roster 80% of what is offered in an LT, you are not really in the 4* transition, so most of this conversation doesn't impact you.  

    If you want to take a stance on the vaulted 3*, please do so.  But again, you are no worse off now than you were when they vaulted, and in several peoples opinions, better off.

    You could take 6 months of daily play, with some effort towards PVE, and hoard everything.  By November, you will have plenty of HP and CP to jump into the 4* transition.  And when that happens (assuming nothing changes), you will be pulling from a pool of 12 instead of 50+, almost guaranteeing to max cover several.  With the ISO stored up, you immediately jump from 3* to 4* player.   I don't see how that is such a bad thing.

    I have every 3* champed except for the last 2 released.  In the old system I could spread out the covers and build as I go.  Slow progress, but progress.  November?  It would take a lot longer than that.  I can't treat this game like a second job so my progress would be slow in the best of circumstances.  Again I get stuck with a limit roster that I'll be stuck playing everything with due to scaling.  (another joy of the system) while characters I actually want to play sit neglected.  Even if I did put it all together by november, that is still a half a year of going nowhere.  Where is the fun of that again?
  • WelcomeDeath
    WelcomeDeath Posts: 349 Mover and Shaker
    Jaedenkaal said:
    Welcome Death said:
    I dont think vaulting is an issue.  I dont think bonus heroes are an issue.  3* bonus heroes seem to come pretty quickly, which is a good thing.  4* BH from heroics / event tokens are basically nil, and I'm ok with that.  I do not understand this, though: it was posted in the bonus hero thread, as an edit, that you're actually getting a 17% shot at a bonus hero for each 3* and 4* you pull from heroics.  The 5% is from the 2* diluting the pool.  That's fine.  But if i pull a 4* from the LT store, I'm only getting a 5% bonus for each 4* I pull, same with 5*.  
    It sounds like you do understand it. It's a 17% chance because there is not a 100% chance to pull a BH-eligible cover from a heroic token. So the odds of getting a BH from a heroic token are still 1/20, but because you can't get a 2* bonus hero, they're just weighted such that when you pull a 3* or 4*, your odds of also getting a bonus hero are 17%. Legendary tokens don't have this issue because 100% of draws are BH-eligible. So no matter which token you open, you have a 5% chancalso getting a bonus hero. The odds are the same even if one of them is calculated as 1.00 x 0.05 and the other is calculated as ~0.294 x ~0.17.
    I was commenting on BH rewards / covers of a tier pulled.  The effective rate is 17% in heroics x total 3* or 4* covers pulled.
  • n25philly
    n25philly Posts: 426 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:
    n25philly said:
    Spudgutter said:
    n25philly said:
    Spudgutter said:
    @n25philly

    I'm not the one you are replying to, but something you said really stuck out to me.

     "I haven't opened a token since the change."

    Why are you so vehemently opposed to something you haven't even tried yet?  You throw out numbers like "80% unusable" but then say you only play one match a day for the rewards. Of course you can't level up 4* if you don't play.  And if you really have that many of the current 12 maxed but not champed, then hoard.   They said it was an unintended consequence. Hoard your tokens, play pve to progression for the cp and iso rewards, and wait for some people to cycle out.  Is it ideal?  In my opinion, no. Is it worth railing against?  Again, my opinon, based on the last two months of actually using the system, is no.
    I'm not opening tokens, not because I am against the system but because there is no good reason to.  If I pull a legendary right now there is about an 80% chance of pulling someone I can't roster.  Why do that for what is  almost guaranteed to be waste?

    When the change came I played as I normally did for nearly two weeks.  Got nowhere so I started scaling back to playing the DDQ every days and sometimes other stuff.  Then just the DDQ.  Now it's just 1-2 matches to get the daily reward.  I play less and less because I don't see the point.  It's going to take forever to get the hp to roster the 12.  No point in rushing since there is no point in rostering until I get close to having enough for them all.  Even with my old regular play getting 9-10 slots whatever it is will take forever.  After rostering 3* star lord I have almost enough for one slot.

    Level up everyone faster?  lol, I have like 300,000 iso.  Again best to wait until I have enough to level champ a few characters at minimum.  (really best to wait until I can do most of them)

    My not pulling has nothing to do with hating the system but being stuck due to the system.  Why use up resources when they will just go to waste?  The intent was to horde until it made sense but it's just too much and not fun.  I did open all my taco tokens when I did the fill DDQ, so it wasn't really that I opened nothing, just the stuff likely to hurt me by opening.

    So it isn't even an issue of unusable 4* covers, it's that you wouldn't even be able to roster them?!?

    If you are not ready to roster 80% of what is offered in an LT, you are not really in the 4* transition, so most of this conversation doesn't impact you.  

    If you want to take a stance on the vaulted 3*, please do so.  But again, you are no worse off now than you were when they vaulted, and in several peoples opinions, better off.

    You could take 6 months of daily play, with some effort towards PVE, and hoard everything.  By November, you will have plenty of HP and CP to jump into the 4* transition.  And when that happens (assuming nothing changes), you will be pulling from a pool of 12 instead of 50+, almost guaranteeing to max cover several.  With the ISO stored up, you immediately jump from 3* to 4* player.   I don't see how that is such a bad thing.

    I have every 3* champed except for the last 2 released.  In the old system I could spread out the covers and build as I go.  Slow progress, but progress.  November?  It would take a lot longer than that.  I can't treat this game like a second job so my progress would be slow in the best of circumstances.  Again I get stuck with a limit roster that I'll be stuck playing everything with due to scaling.  (another joy of the system) while characters I actually want to play sit neglected.  Even if I did put it all together by november, that is still a half a year of going nowhere.  Where is the fun of that again?
    So you have the means to play, but choose not to?  Add to that, you don't want to play, but are mad you don't get the rewards?  Yeah, I'm done discussing this with you, because you just want to be mad about something.
    What are you talking about?  I'm not complaining about not getting rewards because I'm not playing?  Where are you getting that from?  It's a **** system that has left me in a bad situation with no where to go, that's what I am pissed about.  Sorry, I like having to hoard for a year + to move forward.  I'm playing less and less because it sucks going nowhere.  It's a byproduct of very flawed system.  I play less because I see they have no intention of fixing this mess, because it could have been easily fixed by now.  Even at my peak of playing time there is only so much time I can play.  I can't grind nodes and screw around with PVP.  No complaints about that or the rewards as long as there is a path to move forward with which there was in the old system and would be now of they say added a vintage legendary and made the vintage heroic an always available alternative to the regular one.  Nope, broken system or nothing apparently

    It's the long period of forced hoarding and after spending the last year champing all of my 3*'s to be told they aren't worthy and screw you if you want to cover the 4*'s you actually like that has me pissed off.  I have no problem with the rewards structure, or slow progress.  I just want to be able to make some and towards the characters I actually want to play.
  • hesjingixen
    hesjingixen Posts: 215 Tile Toppler
    Since they said player feedback is important, I just wanted to chime in.

    I love vaulting.  I love bonus heroes.  I love the changes to DDQ.

    Keep it up guys!
  • MarkersMake
    MarkersMake Posts: 392 Mover and Shaker
    edited May 2017
    @broll - to be fair, n25 said he basically stopped playing 2 weeks after vaulting aside from a few DDQ nodes. 

    His play level before vaulting might have been casual, but his stated play level since has been almost nil. 
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    SuperRecoome said:
    "I think you're underestimating how long a 4* character will stay available in tokens. 

    Cloak & Dagger will get added to the tokens tomorrow. At the current release rate (two 4*s every 6 weeks) they'll be in there for 36 weeks, plus or minus a little depending on when the season ends and how many characters are being rotated. (That's sometime around the beginning of January next year)

    How many LTs and CP do you earn in a week? Below a certain amount you were pretty much locked out of the 4* transition anyways. What's your highest covered 4*? "

    Since Vaulting happened I've earned 8 LTs and about 100cp. My highest covered is starlord who is missing I think 2 covers to be maxed  so I could put him as a bonus hero and try to max him but he's 5/5/2 so that's 5% chance to get a cover, then after that another 33% chance for it to be the cover I need even after that ,my next highest still needs like 5 covers to max. I have almost all of the 4 stars roster'd  minus most of the ones currently in the packs.
    Well, given the numbers, I hate to break this to you, but if you've only earned 8 tokens and 100 CP in two full months since vaulting, your roster wasn't going to be progressing very quickly no matter what.
  • NewMcG
    NewMcG Posts: 368 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:
    n25philly said:
    Spudgutter said:
    n25philly said:
    Spudgutter said:
    @n25philly

    I'm not the one you are replying to, but something you said really stuck out to me.

     "I haven't opened a token since the change."

    Why are you so vehemently opposed to something you haven't even tried yet?  You throw out numbers like "80% unusable" but then say you only play one match a day for the rewards. Of course you can't level up 4* if you don't play.  And if you really have that many of the current 12 maxed but not champed, then hoard.   They said it was an unintended consequence. Hoard your tokens, play pve to progression for the cp and iso rewards, and wait for some people to cycle out.  Is it ideal?  In my opinion, no. Is it worth railing against?  Again, my opinon, based on the last two months of actually using the system, is no.
    I'm not opening tokens, not because I am against the system but because there is no good reason to.  If I pull a legendary right now there is about an 80% chance of pulling someone I can't roster.  Why do that for what is  almost guaranteed to be waste?

    When the change came I played as I normally did for nearly two weeks.  Got nowhere so I started scaling back to playing the DDQ every days and sometimes other stuff.  Then just the DDQ.  Now it's just 1-2 matches to get the daily reward.  I play less and less because I don't see the point.  It's going to take forever to get the hp to roster the 12.  No point in rushing since there is no point in rostering until I get close to having enough for them all.  Even with my old regular play getting 9-10 slots whatever it is will take forever.  After rostering 3* star lord I have almost enough for one slot.

    Level up everyone faster?  lol, I have like 300,000 iso.  Again best to wait until I have enough to level champ a few characters at minimum.  (really best to wait until I can do most of them)

    My not pulling has nothing to do with hating the system but being stuck due to the system.  Why use up resources when they will just go to waste?  The intent was to horde until it made sense but it's just too much and not fun.  I did open all my taco tokens when I did the fill DDQ, so it wasn't really that I opened nothing, just the stuff likely to hurt me by opening.

    So it isn't even an issue of unusable 4* covers, it's that you wouldn't even be able to roster them?!?

    If you are not ready to roster 80% of what is offered in an LT, you are not really in the 4* transition, so most of this conversation doesn't impact you.  

    If you want to take a stance on the vaulted 3*, please do so.  But again, you are no worse off now than you were when they vaulted, and in several peoples opinions, better off.

    You could take 6 months of daily play, with some effort towards PVE, and hoard everything.  By November, you will have plenty of HP and CP to jump into the 4* transition.  And when that happens (assuming nothing changes), you will be pulling from a pool of 12 instead of 50+, almost guaranteeing to max cover several.  With the ISO stored up, you immediately jump from 3* to 4* player.   I don't see how that is such a bad thing.

    I have every 3* champed except for the last 2 released.  In the old system I could spread out the covers and build as I go.  Slow progress, but progress.  November?  It would take a lot longer than that.  I can't treat this game like a second job so my progress would be slow in the best of circumstances.  Again I get stuck with a limit roster that I'll be stuck playing everything with due to scaling.  (another joy of the system) while characters I actually want to play sit neglected.  Even if I did put it all together by november, that is still a half a year of going nowhere.  Where is the fun of that again?
    So you have the means to play, but choose not to?  Add to that, you don't want to play, but are mad you don't get the rewards?  Yeah, I'm done discussing this with you, because you just want to be mad about something.
    And he's been this way for two whole months now. Yeesh.
  • Ughlah
    Ughlah Posts: 6 Just Dropped In
    I am the new player, well 6 month into the game, playing very active and this is where i'm totally stuck at the moment.

    I have all 2* and all 3* characters, most are covered, about half in each group are champed, from the 3* currently vaulted 4 are missing, so they progress. No major problem till this point, but there was no problem with 2* and 3* before, since you have a nice pull rate of 3-4 when you play very active. Bonus heroes is an awesome feature to get those last missing covers in 3* land. 

    Now to my 4* progression. I have 4 characters in the current vault covered, 7 are at 10 or above covers, the newest 4* is at 5 covers. My chance of pulling a dupe cover are 19/36. I pull around 3 bonus hero covers per month for my 4*. 90% of my remaining 4* are at 1-4 covers,  and I still miss 6 of them altogether.

    Now the problem of vaulting kicks in: ISO. I average at 34000 iso per day. Champing the remaining 3* in the vault will cost me 2 weeks, champing the remaining 3* and 2* will cost me around 3 month. Till I have done so I can keep pulling all tokens and will get more and more 4* dupes which i will have to sell cause I lack iso. So I rather wait 3-4 month, hoard for the entire time, till chances of dupes have gone down a little bit. My progress in 3* land goes down a lot, since I will stop pulling heroic tokens as well.

    Ok, I'm doing something wrong, so let's play through the next option, just champ the current 3* and champ the 4* I can. I save up iso for 2 month, champ them and hoarded in the meantime. I pull my tokens, get my top 3 4* to around level 271 and i'm happy till the next pve event starts. Enemies are superhard for my 3* roster, one of my 4* is even boosted, but totally useless without synergy and I have no chance of getting any 4* rewards from here on. i'm totally frustrated, sell the champed 4* and i'm stuck at my original situation. 

    So what do you want me to do? Hoard for 6 month, then pull, hoard for another 6 month? Try to get to the 4* reward ranks with my 3* roster to fill the gaps?

    This vaulting works perfectly, if you just plan ahead 2-3 month. It is a total mess after that.




  • edgewriter
    edgewriter Posts: 68 Match Maker
    Simple solution. Create new vault with entire 4-star and 5-star rosters for those who really want to pull that particular slot machine lever.
    That way if we feel like we have way too many of the current vault, we can put our CP into a separate 20CP store that gives us a chance for classics. That way we get to choose how we spend our CP.

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