Answers To The 8 Questions About Vaulting (5/2/17)

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  • Astralgazer
    Astralgazer Posts: 267 Mover and Shaker
    Going against the current, I'll say that the new system works.  Yes, even the Bonus Heroes. Before vaulting, I had difficulties with a LOT of single covered 4*. In the space of what little time vaulting is in place, I have Wasp and Mwdusa championed. With IMHB and Ice getting fully covered (and champed ofc) by way of BH. Getting a champ 4* fortnightly is not a bad thing, it's actually good.

    A side effect is hoarding, ofc. At th time, I set hoarding at 2 weeks, openinh tokens until I have one 4* fully covered. Hoard again etc. But people have been hoarding since forever. The only people that got problem with hoarding are the itchy fingers, like me.

    So, keeping in mind the problem of ISO and hoarding, the vaulting works just fine. Kudos for D3 for listening to players' concerns.
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,276 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pylgrim said:
    sinnerjfl said:
    Pylgrim said:
    If you make IW your 4* BH, you can expect to get her fully covered in less than 40 pulls. If there was no vaulting/BHs, it would be somewhere in the vicinity of 90 pulls.
    Or you could pull zero bonus heroes as well because the % is so low.
    5% is one in 20. Without vaulting, there would be 46 4*s in the pool, so the chances to get that particular character would be 1 in 46. Which one is lower?
    Thats not the point. The point is before you had at least a possibility of getting that character even if the odds were lower.

    Now with Bonus heroes it's more than likely there is no possibility of getting that character because Bonus Heroes doesn trigger much if at all for 4*'s.
  • FokaiHI
    FokaiHI Posts: 272 Mover and Shaker
    Okay, so if I am gaining covers twice as fast and supposedly champing in half the time it would feel like it's working. The amount of ISO hasn't changed. Although I may cover a character twice as fast, it still takes around 10 days to champ which is the same as before vaulting. You have only covered half the problem. 
  • StreetPreacher
    StreetPreacher Posts: 54 Match Maker
    Glad to hear the system is a work in progress. I was a 3* player before vaulting, so I did benefit from it initially (I have 5 recent good, playable 4*'s champed). But now I'm in the same boat as most of the vocal people. Every legendary tokens I use has to be sold for iso because the character already has either 5 in that color or 13 total, but nowhere near enough iso to champ them. So I've been hoarding CP for the past several weeks.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    edited May 2017
    Ducky said:
    I think the problem with the way the forum sees vaulting versus how the devs see it is a matter of perspective.

    The devs target audience for vaulting makes up a very small percentage of the forums, I think, as we mostly have developed rosters and vaulting wasn't made to directly benefit that demographic. Vaulting was made to benefit the very, very large portion of the player base that doesn't frequent the forums, that doesn't sniff the t100.

    I think this is why there has been such an impasse on the subject between the two sides. We want to be able to continue to grow are nice and shinies while the devs want to give the vast majority of the player base a chance to even get a couple nice and shinies, which is why Dave mentioned that dilution in packs is bad for the longevity of the game.

    Do I know of a way to make vaulting more palatable to the forumites? Nope, lol. But I don't think it is by basically repackaging dilution into a smaller form in more subsets of tokens. My hope is that the vintage heroics are just a stopgap solution while they work on something more dynamic to help alleviate the forum's concerns regarding vaulting. Only time will tell, though, and I hope in the end it all works out.
    I agree, i feel too many people on the forum seem to bash vaulting just on principle.  

    With that said, though, i disagree that "repackaging dilution into a smaller form" wouldn't work.  This is the question i would love to see them address.  They are OK with giving me a one in 12 chance for a 4* (lets ignore 5*, because this isn't really about them anyway).  This is evidenced by the current tokens, right?  Well, why not give me a one in 12 chance for a separate set of 12?  And another set of 12?  Pretty soon you could have four separate tokens, each with 12 different 4*(through in Devil and Howard!).  What if you are a Super fan of a particular comic/character?  Then pull the token with that character in it, so that you can still continue to get your favorite (shout out to @Dragon_Nexus, the above post made me think of this).  

    This could also stop the issue of hoarding.  Max cover all 12 in a particular token?  Open a different token.  

    I'm not saying I have the perfect solution either, but I would sure love to hear a better rebuttal as to why they won't make the vaulted characters easier to get.

    edit: looks like @Jarvind was working on his post while i was playing PS4 and slowly typing up mine.  I have to say that is a pretty good idea as well, and runs along the same vein as mine.  
  • Uthgarprime
    Uthgarprime Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
    You claim new players can be more competitive sooner, now that is a half truth.  Yes they can get a newer 4* covered and championed in record time.  Now How are they suppose to do the 4* essential node unless they get lucky and get a BH pull for the current event?  Since they don't have the 4* essential, i guess they won't be quite as competitive as you claim since they will be down a whole node worth of points.
  • bickle
    bickle Posts: 31 Just Dropped In
    Bonuses are not a viable method for covering a vaulted character. The drop rate is way too low for this to be viable. While it is a nice idea, it could be turned off at any time and I would not notice. 

    So why not just have multiple vaults so that each character is available in a vault? That still achieves the goal of diminishing dilution, and also gives he player agency in choosing which characters to focus on. 
  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
    How about adding the characters we favor to the pool? If someone doesn't like vaulting he can just favor all the characters. 
  • irwando
    irwando Posts: 263 Mover and Shaker
    Did not address the ISO shortage / need for much more ISO in a shorter period of time.

    Did not address the fact that vaulted characters are still required for missions and newer players are even more hosed.

    Here's the thing  I have 20+ champed 4*s.  If all the 4's were in the same pool I would level newer ones slower, but overall every pull would have a high likelihood of a cover I could use.  Now I 'm at a 50-50 chance of a cover for a character I don't have champed and have low on my priority to get champed.  So now I'm hoarding tokens and CP, something I never did before.

    So your change means I open fewer tokens, not more.   yay.
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    And for point 8 about complaints: may I direct you to the token pull exploit thread? So you can maybe act on the cheaters AFTER TWO MONTHS! #TwoExplores
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
    It was mentioned elsewhere, but I really liked the idea of awarding covers in DDQ if you get to 44000. In other words, if you win the Crash and every other node in a day, you will also earn a 4* cover. The first person I saw mention it said the cover you win would be for the current Crash, so for instance, if you win with X-23, you'll get another X-23 cover.

    Of course I'm biased, but I suggested a tweak to that mechanic, in that if you win, you should get a cover for the NEXT Crash. To build off my example, I had no issue winning X-23's Crash, so while another cover for her would have been nice, it wouldn't have necessarily have been as helpful as being rewarded a cover for Iceman, who at the time had only one or two covers total. Now, that certainly wouldn't have helped me win the Crash this time, but eventually if I would keep winning X-23's Crashes and getting Iceman covers, I would be able to win his, which would help me get Teen Jean covers and so on.

    This would also help newbies develop vaulted characters. They could get the Select 12 decently covered, and when those characters come up in the Crash rotation, a win would help them get whoever comes next better covered.
  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
    edited May 2017
    New McG said:
    Daiches said:
    I'll put this in terms Dave may be more familiar with.

    You are trying to make Standard, while we want to continue playing Legacy and Vintage. And you already killed Pauper with the removal of Heroics. There's no Reserved List in MPQ, so why insist on instituting one? Let us Legact players get champion levels. It's like upgrading that Stomping Ground in Belcher to a Russian Foil Altered one, except this time it makes your deck better for real.
    I'm giving this a like for no other reason than it is obviously the final unintelligible posting of someone dying of a stroke mid-post. RIP Daiches. ;) 
    I think Daiches is going deep geek here. The only thing that could have made it more geeky is a reference to T'Pring ;)

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