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    • Answers To The 8 Questions About Vaulting (5/2/17)

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    • Jaedenkaal
      Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
      If you're getting the 25 CP for completing the event progression you should also get a 4* cover every... you said 4 days on average? And 12/48 times that cover will also be for someone in the tokens (on average, all other things being equal, which is what we're assuming here).

      And they include new releases in progression rewards less than a week after their release so that one is basically guaranteed. They are the required character for that event, sure, but it is easily possible to get enough points to get the cover before the last day (except on DP vs MPQ maybe).
      If that means giving up 15 CP then that's probably still a fair trade, but its also possible to get the 15 CP at the end even if you just got the required character; I've done it several times now.
    • Fightmastermpq
      Fightmastermpq Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
      edited May 2017
      Starfury said:
      show previous quotes
      113 covers * 12 characters / 36 weeks -> 37 covers per week.
      That's what Fightmaster's hardcore player would need to reach if he's to get his 4* to 370 before they're vaulted.
      I edited to clarify.  I'm talking about the hardest of hardcore players, not just someone that plays a lot, but the top 1% of the top 1%.  Not everyone should be able to get 370s, but if that handful of players at the top end can pull in 113 covers in 36 weeks, then anyone actively trying to transition (i.e. NOT a casual player) should easily be able to get 13 covers in 36 weeks.

      And for the record, I don't even really consider myself to be very hardcore.  I often play PvP for an hour to hit 1200 and then shield out.  I rarely play a full PvE competitively (for T10 or better), but I do try to always get progression in PvE and as many green checks as possible.  I typically miss lightning rounds completely, but when I do stumble upon them I only play the seeds.  So I could be playing a lot more, but yet I am still able to pull in enough ISO to consistently champ a 4* every week, and right now it's looking like every 4 released from now on will get vaulted probably around level 340-350 for me.


    • Alsmir
      Alsmir Posts: 508 Critical Contributor
      Fightmastermpq said:
      show previous quotes
      Sorry but I don't care if casual players can't progress well into the 4* tier.  Casual players have 1/2/3* characters to play with, and some 4* characters to mess around with.  Casual players don't have a roster filled with champed 4*s.
      Sure, but only if casual players would only play against other casual players in PvE and PvP. As long as this isn't the case, you should care, because if they all quit, because of lack of progress, you will be stuck with only hardcore players and the game will be dying.
    • Milk Jugz
      Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
      sh81 said:
      show previous quotes

      Thats probably about right.  Certainly doesnt seem like 18 a day, I would have guessed less - but a pull every couple of days seems about right so Id say you are accurate.

      And thats pretty well how I play.

      I just finished 7th on Thick as thieves, because of boosted RULK (one of my few champs) and IM40.  Those two players being powered up changed my entire experience.  I didnt have to do the 12 hour clear, and the final grind/new clears were quicker than ever.  Ive spent probably an hour a day less playing, and now I have some 4* rewards, for less effort than I usually make.  I even managed a coupe of PVP over the event.

      Its been a huge amount of fun, but also bittersweet.  Ive just seen how the other half live, and now Im going back to the other side of the tracks...

      Its the first time Ive managed this situation, and its because I was able to champ RULK recently.  Were it not for that I would have ground out a top 50 finish, and added some Patch champ levels and got 2k iso for the effort.

      Had I more useable 4* I would be able to play less, enjoy more, win more.  And yet getting them is a slog to say the least.
      Two things: 1) I started hoarding cp 3 days ago when I had 3, I now have 112. Now that included a few beneficial champ levels on some of my higher 3*s, but you can earn cp at a surprising rate when you start saving it. 

      2) Boosted Rulk and IM40 is the closest thing to PVE cheating you can get, I love that combo!!! 
    • Bowgentle
      Bowgentle Posts: 7,926 Chairperson of the Boards
      sh81 said:
      show previous quotes

      1) Ive been saving about 3 days, I have 59.  So pretty much spot on with @MissChinch prediction.  This includes 9 cp coming in from my alliance.  I realise its peaks and troughs.  In a day or two Ill pick up 15 from progression on simulator and it will suddenly feel like progress, but Id say Im pretty well on course as predicted.  And actually thats a little faster than I thought.

      2) I felt like a proper 4* player, that added punch completely changed the game for me.  I can understand how posters well into the 4*/5* status can throw out "Just finish top 10..." in that seemingly patronising way now.  Silly point really, but the game really is much easier and more enjoyable when you have the roster to play.  And it just reinforces the disparity for me between being stuck in the 3*s looking up.


      Word of warning: If you enjoy PVE - never move into 5* land.
    • Jaedenkaal
      Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
      sh81 said:
      I have no interest in it at all at the minute!

      I have in the past been tempted to sell my 5s for scaling purposes, but with the move to scaling being based on SCL I see no point.
      Don't be surprised if it's based on SCL AND roster. Just sayin' ;)
    • Milk Jugz
      Milk Jugz Posts: 1,122 Chairperson of the Boards
      I have Phoenix at 420 with 11 covers and my PVE scaling is definitely a little higher than my alliance mates with no leveled 5*s, but I can still easily get it done with boosted 4*s, for simulator I'm running Drax, Wasp, and Chulk- all champed- to great effect. One person in my alliance has 2 champ 5*s and he still runs his 4*s for PVE. The 5* problem seems to be more in PVP than PVE

      -But I'm also basing this on only having 1 or 2 high level 5*s, so it could change more when you get 3,4,5, etc....
    • broll
      broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
      Jaedenkaal said:
      show previous quotes
      Don't be surprised if it's based on SCL AND roster. Just sayin' ;)
      So the worst of both worlds, yeah that sounds like something they'd do.  Either that or pay for the scaling you want....
    • optimus2861
      optimus2861 Posts: 1,233 Chairperson of the Boards
      Milk Jugz said:

      2) Boosted Rulk and IM40 is the closest thing to PVE cheating you can get, I love that combo!!!
      4* Luke Cage (5 black) plus 3* Doctor Strange (5 yellow) is pretty darn close too. Add Blade (either) for more fun.
    • Dauthi
      Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
      edited May 2017
      Brigby said:
      @MissChinch

      Once I pass along this report to the developers, and hear back from them, I will be sure to update the community with any information I can communicate.
      I just had my long time Commander of our lowbie alliance quit. She was really excited she finished hulkbuster and championed him as her first 4* champion, until I told her the bad news about vaulting.

      She quit MPQ today because all that work was basically for nothing. I hope it gets relayed how much vaulting has harmed MPQs player base and that a fix should be priority.
    • Jaedenkaal
      Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
      I'm sure they don't need anecdotes to tell them how many players have stopped playing in the last two months, and if that's an increase in the average loss of players compared to previously.
    • DarthDeVo
      DarthDeVo Posts: 2,178 Chairperson of the Boards
      Brigby said:
      Hi Everyone. Just wanted to give a quick update. I completed my analysis and sent over a report to the developers last night, so rest assured that the ball is still rolling and we're still discussing this topic for sure. 

      If I hear of any information I can communicate, I'll be sure to update everyone with that news.
      You are a gentleman and a scholar, sir. Thanks for all your work and updates! 
    • Dauthi
      Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
      edited May 2017
      Jaedenkaal said:
      I'm sure they don't need anecdotes to tell them how many players have stopped playing in the last two months, and if that's an increase in the average loss of players compared to previously.
      Oh, I mistook this for a forum. My bad.

      Thanks for the quick response Brigby! I let her know there is hope at the end of this tunnel.
    • Brigby
      Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
      *Please keep all comments on-topic and constructive. Thank you!
    • Dauthi
      Dauthi Posts: 995 Critical Contributor
      edited May 2017
      New McG said:
      show previous quotes
      Removed Mocking / Insult Post -Brigby
      While off subject, I think it might be important to clarify what a forum is and why Brigby created this specific conversation in it.

      A forum is to allow people to come together and share the views, which include personal experiences, on a subject. That's why you see this often in political forums held in communities. They are set up so your voice can be heard, so it's silly to tell someone their personal experience on a subject is invalid for any reason, especially considering others are probably experiencing something similar.

      While anecdotal, it is a very real experience happening to someone in the community and I would imagine all input is valuable to the developers at all levels of play. The player I referred to is someone who plays very casually, which is noted by her obtaining her first 4 star and it being Hulkbuster. I'm not sure how many players voiced their opinion who are also at her level of play, but I felt I should add it to the conversation.

      Mocking others is also not conducive for conversation.
    • Daredevil217
      Daredevil217 Posts: 4,069 Chairperson of the Boards
      edited May 2017
      Brigby said:
      Hi Everyone. Just wanted to give a quick update. I completed my analysis and sent over a report to the developers last night, so rest assured that the ball is still rolling and we're still discussing this topic for sure. 

      If I hear of any information I can communicate, I'll be sure to update everyone with that news.
      Hey @Brigby,

      I want to once again thank you for the work you do. I know the report has been sent on, but I think this data here is important (to include in a sticky note or just bring up in the next devs meeting):

      https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/64360/how-has-hoarding-changed-for-you-since-vaulting/p1

      Of people who have felt the need to change their hoarding habits 64% report hoarding MORE while only 5% report hoarding less. I think that is pretty significant and overall makes the game less fun.  I like that they recognize the embargo on champ rewards as problematic and am hoping they see this for the problem it is as well (which did not seem to be the case based on their response to my question in the OP)
    • spatenfloot
      spatenfloot Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
      Daredevil217 said:
      show previous quotes
      Hey @Brigby,

      I want to once again thank you for the work you do. I know the report has been sent on, but I think this data here is important (to include in a sticky note or just bring up in the next devs meeting):

      https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/64360/how-has-hoarding-changed-for-you-since-vaulting/p1

      Of people who have felt the need to change their hoarding habits 64% report hoarding MORE while only 5% report hoarding less. I think that is pretty significant and overall makes the game less fun.  I like that they recognize the embargo on champ rewards as problematic and am hoping they see this for the problem it is as well (which did not seem to be the case based on their response to my question in the OP)
      They wouldn't need to hoard if the devs would significantly increase iso flow.
    • Arix90
      Arix90 Posts: 244 Tile Toppler
      edited May 2017
      I think packs should be 20 characters the newest 12 and 8 classic 4*s cycling every season That would be a good compromise giving access / champion levels to the older characters but still highlighting the new ones
    • mega ghost
      mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
      One thing is for certain, if we're stuck with this horrible vaulting system they need to drastically update champion rewards. 500 ISO and the likes is no longer suitable in exchange for a character we now no longer have a direct line to. 

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