Answers To The 8 Questions About Vaulting (5/2/17)

FokaiHI

GrumpySmurf1002 said:

FokaiHI said:

Nova was just boosted. He is still a top tier 4*. I don't know if I'll champ him though, even with 4 covers waiting. 

This completely depends on roster planning.

If you're hoarding tokens now, for whatever reasons, then there's nothing wrong with targeting and leveling top tier vaulted characters.  Your potential for cover waste is limited that way.

It's those who are continually opening that *should* reconsider their roster planning.  Repeatedly opening new characters but focusing resources on old ones leads to a ton of waste.

Hoarding and low ISO seem like the best reasons to champ selectively. My roster is pretty stacked though so I don't feel the struggle as much. I do agree that champing the current 12 is the way to go. 

Jaedenkaal

MarkersMake said:

Seriously? The game auto-spent your ISO and champed those first 5 without your consent? You didn't have the choice to just leave them at 13 covers and just sell extra covers for them? 

Does it auto-spend your ISO now?

Crowl

Milk Jugz said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Milk Jugz said:

The treadmill analogy isn't that bad as you have put it. Problem is that when one of the latest comes off the treadmill they are now stagnant. If you champ them before they come off once they do you have a bunch of characters stuck in the 275 to 285 range. Vaulting kills champ levels

Demi and I both agree with you that the "vaulting old characters" system and the "championing" system are at odds with each other, and none of us are satisfied with the current state in that regard.

Read my discussion in GD- Titled "Clearance levels vs vaulting/ bonus heroes". I think that is a much better solution and I have yet to have an argument against me...... I want one, TINYKITTY!!!

I just caught up on the last few pages of this thread and it seems like a fair amount of the posts came from you pushing your plan, regardless of it's merit people are going to tend to dismiss your posts as spam if they are coming frequently enough that you are even quoting your own previous posts.

smkspy

And just like I predicted, champed c4ge then immediately pull my 13th Riri token. Lucky pull given the odds, but just thought it funny.

Common double iso week, daddy has 4 more latest twelve to champ.

Milk Jugz

Crowl said:

Milk Jugz said:

Jaedenkaal said:

Milk Jugz said:

The treadmill analogy isn't that bad as you have put it. Problem is that when one of the latest comes off the treadmill they are now stagnant. If you champ them before they come off once they do you have a bunch of characters stuck in the 275 to 285 range. Vaulting kills champ levels

Demi and I both agree with you that the "vaulting old characters" system and the "championing" system are at odds with each other, and none of us are satisfied with the current state in that regard.

Read my discussion in GD- Titled "Clearance levels vs vaulting/ bonus heroes". I think that is a much better solution and I have yet to have an argument against me...... I want one, TINYKITTY!!!

I just caught up on the last few pages of this thread and it seems like a fair amount of the posts came from you pushing your plan, regardless of it's merit people are going to tend to dismiss your posts as spam if they are coming frequently enough that you are even quoting your own previous posts.

I hear ya!!! I just wanted some feedback and I felt my post was getting overlooked due to the argument going on between a few people on the viability of the latest 12 over the original 35- which itself was not the original topic of this post. Sorry- again just wanted some feedback

shartattack

I am actually against colorless covers.  I think it would make it far too easy to champ whoever you want.  I think the answer to the frustration is to remove the expiration of covers.  Make the "vine" limited in some way, maybe tied to shield rank.  This way they aren't wasted.  Then, I could champ characters in the order i would like to, and not just because i have a 14th and 15th covers expiring.
I would pay 17 CP for an "all 4*" token with all 4* covers.  I know, RNG and all, but 2 straight off-seasons spending the 100CP daily deal and all the event vintage tokens, and nothing to show but a Sentry and a ton of 2*s.  This is not helping my vaulted 4s.  

Milk Jugz

shartattack said:

I am actually against colorless covers.  I think it would make it far too easy to champ whoever you want.  I think the answer to the frustration is to remove the expiration of covers.  Make the "vine" limited in some way, maybe tied to shield rank.  This way they aren't wasted.  Then, I could champ characters in the order i would like to, and not just because i have a 14th and 15th covers expiring.
I would pay 17 CP for an "all 4*" token with all 4* covers.  I know, RNG and all, but 2 straight off-seasons spending the 100CP daily deal and all the event vintage tokens, and nothing to show but a Sentry and a ton of 2*s.  This is not helping my vaulted 4s.  

I just wanted to say I like your username..... that is all, good point though, I like your 4* only vault too.

Fightmastermpq

sh81 said:

So Ill repeat the solution presented early.

Maintain vaulting.
Have a selection of 12 old characters in the classic token.
Change this selection regularly.

Yes, we still have vaulting.

However, we dont have dilution, and we do have access to the covers we want in a meaningful way.

All it will cost is some patience to wait for your window.  Which, realistically, would be every few weeks.

No new tokens, no complex self selection, just manage the pool in classics more actively.

Sorry, but no, this is still dilution.  The only place you can progress on older 5*s is in classic tokens, and now you've arbitrarily tied 4* dilution to progress in that tier.  It doesn't make any sense to have people wait for more dilution in the 5* tier so they can try to avoid dilution at the 4* tier.

Any you do not have access to the covers you want in a meaningful way, you have access to a randomly selected group of tokens that you may or may not want.

Here is an anecdote for how this will work out based on my Taco method.....

Every 5 days we get a new taco vault and whether or not I open my tokens depends on one simple thing - if I have both 4*s champed, I open, if not I save them until the next time.  I've got like 75% of the 4*s champed and I still have found myself going through 5 cycles of DDQ before opening......and that's just a selection of 2 random 4s.  If you had 12 4s in there the odds that I don't have 1 of those 12 champed is going to be pretty high and I'm going to find myself hoarding CP for seasons on end.  Players with fewer champed 4s than me are going to find themselves in a constant state of uncertainty - always trying to figure out what amount of waste they are comfortable to try for whatever top tier characters are in there that they want.  How do you eliminate that uncertainty?  Champ them all......  So it's just dilution, but in smaller packets that really doesn't help over time.

SleepingKoala

I hope that you have considered the feedback from the 60+ pages from the bonus hero thread, but here is my feedback again in the event that it is considered:

Vaulting substantially hurts my 4* progression (currently 15 vaulted champs and about 5 vaulted 4* that are at 8-11 covers). 

Progression is clearly not even for me and I have had many more 4* covers that I have had to sell. There is less incentive to open these tokens now and thus less incentive to play to earn CP. 

Many people have suggested having a choice of current or vintage legendary token, which I think is a great idea. I would pick the vintage without hesitation, even if it came without any bonus hero.

Crowl

shartattack said:

I am actually against colorless covers.  I think it would make it far too easy to champ whoever you want.  I think the answer to the frustration is to remove the expiration of covers.  Make the "vine" limited in some way, maybe tied to shield rank.  This way they aren't wasted.  Then, I could champ characters in the order i would like to, and not just because i have a 14th and 15th covers expiring.
I would pay 17 CP for an "all 4*" token with all 4* covers.  I know, RNG and all, but 2 straight off-seasons spending the 100CP daily deal and all the event vintage tokens, and nothing to show but a Sentry and a ton of 2*s.  This is not helping my vaulted 4s.  

What is actually wrong with people champing who they want and not needlessly wasting covers they have actually earned playing the game?

To max out a character it takes 113 covers, do we really need 8 of those to be subject to much greater restrictions than all the others?

Covers wouldn't need to be completely colourless in any case, they could simply unlock the colour once somebody had reached 5 covers in a particular colour, you would still get randomness as you built the character but reducing the needless wasting of covers.

Alsmir

I'm quite confused, seems like the devs want more players to progress into higher tiers of characters, but at the same time after vaulting you either need to hoard or pull at least x tokens/month to cover 4* characters before they get vaulted.

Casual players are kittened unless they hoard, and speaking from my experience, hoarding makes the whole game significantly less fun.

I'll give it a few more months, but so far everything looks extremely bad for me.
~ 1 year of pulling LTs almost completely wasted. I managed to champ 1 vaulted 4* and that's it. All the others that are sitting at 3-10 covers were pretty much a wasted CP and time.

Peggy vaulted - 6 covers, so I need a whole 7 BH pulls. Considering that my last 4* BH was approx 6 weeks ago, it's not looking good.
Wasp vaulted - 11 covers. Kinda close but she's not good enough to set her as BH.

Before vaulting my progress was slow, but it was going somewhere. Now it feels like I'm stuck in an endless cycle of getting some covers, but no usable characters.

SpringSoldier

I'm also in favor of splitting the vaults: latest legends, classic legends and vintage legends (with 4* only), so everyone gets what they want.

I don't know about most players, but I started playing this game because it features Marvel characters. And I have characters that I absolutely LOVE from movies and cartoons. I don't care if another character is easier to obtain. I want a certain one! And I'm sure we all have our favorites and it should be fair that they're all just as easy to obtain.

Otherwise new players are stuck with new characters they don't really like (while knowing their favorites do exist and others have them); older players can't get their favs to a decent level and eventually also get stuck the new characters they don't really like; PVP get really boring since everyone is playing with similar teams (right now it's Thanos, Logan and Dr. Strange)- it's a circlejerk of frustration for everybody.

I think the devs need to understand why we choose this over candy crush and the hundreds of free games of this type: because it's Marvel and we love the characters.

Alsmir

I'd love the idea of vintage legends with 4* only.

Right now I'm desperately trying to cover any latest 4* before they get vaulted and replaced with someone new. I failed with both Wasp and Peggy, and in the last 2 months I managed to pull approx 5-6 5* covers that are absolutely worthless for me right now.

Ughlah

You get around 1x 3* bonus hero cover per week, 1x 4* bonus hero cover per month and 2x 5* bonus hero covers per year. While this impacts the 3* a lot, I don't think bonus heroes impact the way you collect in the late game (1 year+).

For comparison you get around 30-40 3* or 4* in the same timeframe. Champing multiple 5* with bonus hero covers may take a little longer than 99,99% of the community will play this game.

Is it really wrong to complain, if a process in a game takes a decade or even longer to complete or costs tens of thousands of dollars? 

Quebbster

Ughlah said:

You get around 1x 3* bonus hero cover per week, 1x 4* bonus hero cover per month and 2x 5* bonus hero covers per year. While this impacts the 3* a lot, I don't think bonus heroes impact the way you collect in the late game (1 year+).

For comparison you get around 30-40 3* or 4* in the same timeframe. Champing multiple 5* with bonus hero covers may take a little longer than 99,99% of the community will play this game.

Is it really wrong to complain, if a process in a game takes a decade or even longer to complete or costs tens of thousands of dollars? 

Just checked my 3* bonus hero draw rate since I happen to have them all in my queue at the moment. I average one 3* bonus cover per day. Maybe I am more lucky than you, maybe I just open more tokens than you do, but either way different people accumulate covers at a different pace.

tiomono

Quebbster said:

Ughlah said:

You get around 1x 3* bonus hero cover per week, 1x 4* bonus hero cover per month and 2x 5* bonus hero covers per year. While this impacts the 3* a lot, I don't think bonus heroes impact the way you collect in the late game (1 year+).

For comparison you get around 30-40 3* or 4* in the same timeframe. Champing multiple 5* with bonus hero covers may take a little longer than 99,99% of the community will play this game.

Is it really wrong to complain, if a process in a game takes a decade or even longer to complete or costs tens of thousands of dollars? 

Just checked my 3* bonus hero draw rate since I happen to have them all in my queue at the moment. I average one 3* bonus cover per day. Maybe I am more lucky than you, maybe I just open more tokens than you do, but either way different people accumulate covers at a different pace.

You are definitely heavy on the lucky side queb. 

1 a day or even every other day is insane. I think if that was every players rate of bonus hero's you would not have hundreds of posts arguing that the bonus hero system is not enough.

Yes people acquire tokens at a different pace. This rate would put (if you were getting the 5% rate) 20 3 stars on average daily. Speaking for myself and my alliance I can say that is astronomically faster than the majority of players.

Bowgentle

tiomono said:

Quebbster said:

Ughlah said:

You get around 1x 3* bonus hero cover per week, 1x 4* bonus hero cover per month and 2x 5* bonus hero covers per year. While this impacts the 3* a lot, I don't think bonus heroes impact the way you collect in the late game (1 year+).

For comparison you get around 30-40 3* or 4* in the same timeframe. Champing multiple 5* with bonus hero covers may take a little longer than 99,99% of the community will play this game.

Is it really wrong to complain, if a process in a game takes a decade or even longer to complete or costs tens of thousands of dollars? 

Just checked my 3* bonus hero draw rate since I happen to have them all in my queue at the moment. I average one 3* bonus cover per day. Maybe I am more lucky than you, maybe I just open more tokens than you do, but either way different people accumulate covers at a different pace.

You are definitely heavy on the lucky side queb. 

1 a day or even every other day is insane. I think if that was every players rate of bonus hero's you would not have hundreds of posts arguing that the bonus hero system is not enough.

1 3* bonus hero per day is kinda easy with enough draws.
If your roster is good enough you accumulate a lot of tokens per day - and I mean A LOT.
1 standard, 1 elite, 3 event tokens per PVP.
9 standards from each PVE sub.
Intercepts spit out between 1 and 5 tokens per day.
LR days drop heroics like rain, plus 2 standards per round.
DDQ gives out standards and elites.
PVE sub rewards, PVP end rewards, daily supply.
Champ rewards.

There are A LOT of tokens in the game on a daily basis.
Of course, depending on the strength of your roster, you will not get as many draws.

tiomono

Bowgentle said:

tiomono said:

Quebbster said:

Ughlah said:

You get around 1x 3* bonus hero cover per week, 1x 4* bonus hero cover per month and 2x 5* bonus hero covers per year. While this impacts the 3* a lot, I don't think bonus heroes impact the way you collect in the late game (1 year+).

For comparison you get around 30-40 3* or 4* in the same timeframe. Champing multiple 5* with bonus hero covers may take a little longer than 99,99% of the community will play this game.

Is it really wrong to complain, if a process in a game takes a decade or even longer to complete or costs tens of thousands of dollars? 

Just checked my 3* bonus hero draw rate since I happen to have them all in my queue at the moment. I average one 3* bonus cover per day. Maybe I am more lucky than you, maybe I just open more tokens than you do, but either way different people accumulate covers at a different pace.

You are definitely heavy on the lucky side queb. 

1 a day or even every other day is insane. I think if that was every players rate of bonus hero's you would not have hundreds of posts arguing that the bonus hero system is not enough.

1 3* bonus hero per day is kinda easy with enough draws.
If your roster is good enough you accumulate a lot of tokens per day - and I mean A LOT.
1 standard, 1 elite, 3 event tokens per PVP.
9 standards from each PVE sub.
Intercepts spit out between 1 and 5 tokens per day.
LR days drop heroics like rain, plus 2 standards per round.
DDQ gives out standards and elites.
PVE sub rewards, PVP end rewards, daily supply.
Champ rewards.

There are A LOT of tokens in the game on a daily basis.
Of course, depending on the strength of your roster, you will not get as many draws.

Remove any tokens that are a vault style like ddq. You cannot get bonus heros from the "vault" style tokens. And you do not get bonus heros from champ rewards either.

DyingLegend

sh81 said:

Pulling 3 and 4* from standards is rare indeed.
Elites are only 2* and 3*.
Heroics are rarely 4 star.  I dont even get many 3* from there, but obviously more than 4*

So most of the tokens awarded do little/nothing to help in 4* pulls, so just getting one is rare - to then be lucky enough to get a 4* BH is like finding unicorn poop.

Believe it or not I had 2 this weekend. One was a medusa cover from the rocket and groot token, got a winter solider purple as a bonus hero, the other I got from a legendary token, a carol danvers which then gave me a moon knight as a bonus hero. Now I don't except to see another bonus hero off a 4* pull for about 6 months haha

Bowgentle

tiomono said:

Bowgentle said:

tiomono said:

Quebbster said:

Ughlah said:

You get around 1x 3* bonus hero cover per week, 1x 4* bonus hero cover per month and 2x 5* bonus hero covers per year. While this impacts the 3* a lot, I don't think bonus heroes impact the way you collect in the late game (1 year+).

For comparison you get around 30-40 3* or 4* in the same timeframe. Champing multiple 5* with bonus hero covers may take a little longer than 99,99% of the community will play this game.

Is it really wrong to complain, if a process in a game takes a decade or even longer to complete or costs tens of thousands of dollars? 

Just checked my 3* bonus hero draw rate since I happen to have them all in my queue at the moment. I average one 3* bonus cover per day. Maybe I am more lucky than you, maybe I just open more tokens than you do, but either way different people accumulate covers at a different pace.

You are definitely heavy on the lucky side queb. 

1 a day or even every other day is insane. I think if that was every players rate of bonus hero's you would not have hundreds of posts arguing that the bonus hero system is not enough.

1 3* bonus hero per day is kinda easy with enough draws.
If your roster is good enough you accumulate a lot of tokens per day - and I mean A LOT.
1 standard, 1 elite, 3 event tokens per PVP.
9 standards from each PVE sub.
Intercepts spit out between 1 and 5 tokens per day.
LR days drop heroics like rain, plus 2 standards per round.
DDQ gives out standards and elites.
PVE sub rewards, PVP end rewards, daily supply.
Champ rewards.

There are A LOT of tokens in the game on a daily basis.
Of course, depending on the strength of your roster, you will not get as many draws.

Remove any tokens that are a vault style like ddq. You cannot get bonus heros from the "vault" style tokens. And you do not get bonus heros from champ rewards either.

You do get tokens from champ rewards, that's what I meant.
And I didn't mention Tacos because vault.