Upcoming Character Change to Wolverine (Old Man Logan)

tiomono

JVReal said:

tiomono said:

Here is my take on the old man. 

I am in my early 4 star transition. I have several champs and am trying to get more of the stronger ones added in. My highest level one is level 273. I think I have 7 of them champed.

My old man is 270 2-2-0. I just went through my first 4 clears on hearts of darkness using Logan, black suit spider (who is at 1-2-2 lol 255) and my 3 star Dr strange. I subbed out spidey for the essentials. I did not use a single health pack. Let me say that again I did not use a single health pack. That was doing 4 clears on every mission (2 on wave nodes) with no break. 

While champed he may not be the best of the 5 stars. But you cannot convince me he does not need toned down a bit at early levels. He allows you to breeze through parts of the game while taking no damage. That by definition is o.o. you cannot convince me otherwise.

By your logic, everyone you used for those 4 clears are over powered because you didn't need a health pack... I guarantee you OML didn't tank every color.  So you are calling for a nerf to any character that can absorb damage?  Any healer can have that impact.  Any burst healer can have that same impact.  Your Dr. Strange was healing everyone else every time his passive went off as much as OML was healing himself.  OML was only keeping himself alive, Dr. Strange was keeping the rest alive.  Your logic is as flawed as the dev's.

Oh, and my OML is level 270, 3/4/0 and only valued at 8000 iso and 1 token.  7 5* covers = 1 5* token?

Strange was absolutely pulling his weight and black suit was tanking all colors for him. 

But seriously he is the strongest 5 with only a few covers. Nobody else even comes close. Like I said champed he may be middle of the pack but at low levels and covers he is the undisputed king in 5 star land.

 No other 5 has been as sought after as much for the early 5 star transition. He is hands down the best at what he does, saving healthpacks and chewing up missions at low levels. 

The people saying he is not overtuned also are saying they only use him on every seed team and all the easier missions in pve is to save healthpacks. No other character can do that on his level. He is overtuned at early levels and low levels. If one character is always the answer to a mission they need tweaked.

We do not even have the numbers for this change and people are going apey.

Tldr: he was too strong at early levels with few covers. 

cyineedsn

tiomono said:

JVReal said:

tiomono said:

Here is my take on the old man. 

I am in my early 4 star transition. I have several champs and am trying to get more of the stronger ones added in. My highest level one is level 273. I think I have 7 of them champed.

My old man is 270 2-2-0. I just went through my first 4 clears on hearts of darkness using Logan, black suit spider (who is at 1-2-2 lol 255) and my 3 star Dr strange. I subbed out spidey for the essentials. I did not use a single health pack. Let me say that again I did not use a single health pack. That was doing 4 clears on every mission (2 on wave nodes) with no break. 

While champed he may not be the best of the 5 stars. But you cannot convince me he does not need toned down a bit at early levels. He allows you to breeze through parts of the game while taking no damage. That by definition is o.o. you cannot convince me otherwise.

By your logic, everyone you used for those 4 clears are over powered because you didn't need a health pack... I guarantee you OML didn't tank every color.  So you are calling for a nerf to any character that can absorb damage?  Any healer can have that impact.  Any burst healer can have that same impact.  Your Dr. Strange was healing everyone else every time his passive went off as much as OML was healing himself.  OML was only keeping himself alive, Dr. Strange was keeping the rest alive.  Your logic is as flawed as the dev's.

Oh, and my OML is level 270, 3/4/0 and only valued at 8000 iso and 1 token.  7 5* covers = 1 5* token?

Strange was absolutely pulling his weight and black suit was tanking all colors for him. 

But seriously he is the strongest 5 with only a few covers. Nobody else even comes close. Like I said champed he may be middle of the pack but at low levels and covers he is the undisputed king in 5 star land.

 No other 5 has been as sought after as much for the early 5 star transition. He is hands down the best at what he does, saving healthpacks and chewing up missions at low levels. 

The people saying he is not overtuned also are saying they only use him on every seed team and all the easier missions in pve is to save healthpacks. No other character can do that on his level. He is overtuned at early levels and low levels. If one character is always the answer to a mission they need tweaked.

We do not even have the numbers for this change and people are going apey.

Tldr: he was too strong at early levels with few covers. 

OML isn't the full reason. You can use any champed 5* to stomp through seed teams and trivial pve nodes and take almost no damage. It just so happens that like everything else lately, the best solution is always thanos, and the best sacrifice to take with him to grind easy nodes was oml.

RtW

I have only 2 yellow covers of oml and he only heals half of what he used to heal.

brisashi

Not only was the sell back rate bad from what they originally announced but they actually nerfed it further. You get less Iso and they changed it from the original token every 30 levels beyond 300. So now my 390 OML with 9 covers would net me 4 tokens instead of 5.

I guess they saw how excited we are on the forums and thought they were being overly generous.

Xenoberyll

The buyback is terrible. Selling my 452 for 8 random 5star covers? Really? #sad

JVReal

They just updated his new stats along with Elecktra and Carnage Nerf here http://forums.d3go.com/discussion/63002/power-gem-season-updates-updated-4-6-17/p1

Hendross

Die Hard - Passive

	BEFORE		AFTER
Power Level	Level 255	Level 450	Level 255	Level 450
1	219	-	193	-
2	263	-	232	-
3	307	1233	270	1089
4	350	1410	309	1245
5	394	1586	347	1400

JVReal

Hendross said:

	BEFORE		AFTER
Power Level	Level 255	Level 450	Level 255	Level 450
1	219	-	193	-
2	263	-	232	-
3	307	1233	270	1089
4	350	1410	309	1245
5	394	1586	347	1400

The Before is Per Ally including him. (triple that amount)
That after is PER ALLY (not counting himself, so double it), if he is standing alone... No Healing AT ALL.

Syleye

yep they want this to get washed away. such a bad move.

madok

Would have been awesome if they would have addressed PVE scaling before this lovely change. Using OML as a tank was one of the few ways I could actually use 4*s that weren't boosted. A single boosted headbutt can almost kill any non-boosted 4*. 

WRIGHT3OUS

Thanks for forcing me to sell my favorite in game character. I'm so pissed...

byc

Does anybody have the numbers for the Living Legend nerf?  I hate the Die Hard nerf, but Living Legend is gonna hurt too.

Milamber42

So, in the announcement regarding the need for changes to OML, they said "if you have feedback on character rebalances, such as this one, please let us know"
What is the point, D3, if you won't engage in conversation with the community about these changes?  Exactly when do you think you can do so? Would it change anything?

tiomono

cyineedsn said:

tiomono said:

JVReal said:

tiomono said:

Here is my take on the old man. 

I am in my early 4 star transition. I have several champs and am trying to get more of the stronger ones added in. My highest level one is level 273. I think I have 7 of them champed.

My old man is 270 2-2-0. I just went through my first 4 clears on hearts of darkness using Logan, black suit spider (who is at 1-2-2 lol 255) and my 3 star Dr strange. I subbed out spidey for the essentials. I did not use a single health pack. Let me say that again I did not use a single health pack. That was doing 4 clears on every mission (2 on wave nodes) with no break. 

While champed he may not be the best of the 5 stars. But you cannot convince me he does not need toned down a bit at early levels. He allows you to breeze through parts of the game while taking no damage. That by definition is o.o. you cannot convince me otherwise.

By your logic, everyone you used for those 4 clears are over powered because you didn't need a health pack... I guarantee you OML didn't tank every color.  So you are calling for a nerf to any character that can absorb damage?  Any healer can have that impact.  Any burst healer can have that same impact.  Your Dr. Strange was healing everyone else every time his passive went off as much as OML was healing himself.  OML was only keeping himself alive, Dr. Strange was keeping the rest alive.  Your logic is as flawed as the dev's.

Oh, and my OML is level 270, 3/4/0 and only valued at 8000 iso and 1 token.  7 5* covers = 1 5* token?

Strange was absolutely pulling his weight and black suit was tanking all colors for him. 

But seriously he is the strongest 5 with only a few covers. Nobody else even comes close. Like I said champed he may be middle of the pack but at low levels and covers he is the undisputed king in 5 star land.

 No other 5 has been as sought after as much for the early 5 star transition. He is hands down the best at what he does, saving healthpacks and chewing up missions at low levels. 

The people saying he is not overtuned also are saying they only use him on every seed team and all the easier missions in pve is to save healthpacks. No other character can do that on his level. He is overtuned at early levels and low levels. If one character is always the answer to a mission they need tweaked.

We do not even have the numbers for this change and people are going apey.

Tldr: he was too strong at early levels with few covers. 

OML isn't the full reason. You can use any champed 5* to stomp through seed teams and trivial pve nodes and take almost no damage. It just so happens that like everything else lately, the best solution is always thanos, and the best sacrifice to take with him to grind easy nodes was oml.

Ok. Take a 4 cover thanos with only 2 of his powers at level 270 and see if you can do your first 4 clears on all missions of a Pve  without using healthpacks. I am not saying at champ level Logan is best. I am saying at low levels and at few covers no other 5 star comes close to logan.

Echoseis

This as with anything is a litmus test. If they can get away with this, and the fallout isn't too bad, they know they can do whatever they want...

Tenaciousdecaf

Echoseis said:

This as with anything is a litmus test. If they can get away with this, and the fallout isn't too bad, they know they can do whatever they want...

They already figured that out when they nerfed 3* Spidey. 

tiomono

cyineedsn said:

tiomono said:

JVReal said:

tiomono said:

Here is my take on the old man. 

I am in my early 4 star transition. I have several champs and am trying to get more of the stronger ones added in. My highest level one is level 273. I think I have 7 of them champed.

My old man is 270 2-2-0. I just went through my first 4 clears on hearts of darkness using Logan, black suit spider (who is at 1-2-2 lol 255) and my 3 star Dr strange. I subbed out spidey for the essentials. I did not use a single health pack. Let me say that again I did not use a single health pack. That was doing 4 clears on every mission (2 on wave nodes) with no break. 

While champed he may not be the best of the 5 stars. But you cannot convince me he does not need toned down a bit at early levels. He allows you to breeze through parts of the game while taking no damage. That by definition is o.o. you cannot convince me otherwise.

By your logic, everyone you used for those 4 clears are over powered because you didn't need a health pack... I guarantee you OML didn't tank every color.  So you are calling for a nerf to any character that can absorb damage?  Any healer can have that impact.  Any burst healer can have that same impact.  Your Dr. Strange was healing everyone else every time his passive went off as much as OML was healing himself.  OML was only keeping himself alive, Dr. Strange was keeping the rest alive.  Your logic is as flawed as the dev's.

Oh, and my OML is level 270, 3/4/0 and only valued at 8000 iso and 1 token.  7 5* covers = 1 5* token?

Strange was absolutely pulling his weight and black suit was tanking all colors for him. 

But seriously he is the strongest 5 with only a few covers. Nobody else even comes close. Like I said champed he may be middle of the pack but at low levels and covers he is the undisputed king in 5 star land.

 No other 5 has been as sought after as much for the early 5 star transition. He is hands down the best at what he does, saving healthpacks and chewing up missions at low levels. 

The people saying he is not overtuned also are saying they only use him on every seed team and all the easier missions in pve is to save healthpacks. No other character can do that on his level. He is overtuned at early levels and low levels. If one character is always the answer to a mission they need tweaked.

We do not even have the numbers for this change and people are going apey.

Tldr: he was too strong at early levels with few covers. 

OML isn't the full reason. You can use any champed 5* to stomp through seed teams and trivial pve nodes and take almost no damage. It just so happens that like everything else lately, the best solution is always thanos, and the best sacrifice to take with him to grind easy nodes was oml.

Ok. Take a 4 cover thanos with only 2 of his powers at level 270 and see if you can do your first 4 clears on all missions of a Pve  without using healthpacks. I am not saying at champ level Logan is best. I am saying at low levels and at few covers no other 5 star comes remotely close to his power.

ClydeFrog76

And they've un-stickied the thread, the icing on the cake.

I'm pretty much done, this "rebalance" is ridiculous.  My 4/1/2 level 360 OML was healing for 1299 a turn before the nerf, to heal the same now I need to max his yellow.  If that's not heavy-handed I don't know what is.  What's most galling is that they've kept his red at the same amount of self-damage, so you have to completely babysit him during a fight now and can't even effectively recover after firing ally powers when you've got over-powered AI match damage on top.

I literally just got him to a proper usable state after receiving his first yellow in Resupply a month ago and being lucky with some classic and BH pulls.  18 months after his release.  I was enjoying the game again; he was supplementing my glacial 4* progression and helping fend off the pure tedium of playing the same old events against the same old characters every single week.  I didn't use him every match if I had decent boosted characters, but I used him a lot because I love the character and he was FUN.  And now he's not.

I'm over it, Demi.  I'm over the way you treat your players.  I'm over the way you think it's okay to pull a stunt like this for no other reason than money.  It's not about the health of the game, you've proven time and time again that you really don't give a toss about that.  If you did, you'd put more effort into keeping us happy with new content that isn't just yet another character release, fixing the many many bugs that you somehow keep introducing with every update, and making us feel like we're being listened to...even just a *little* bit...when we give our opinions and suggestions on here.  You don't deserve the loyalty people show to the game, and I guarantee you that for the majority of players, it's because we love the IP, and definitely not what you're doing with it.

I've been playing nearly since launch, but I'm taking a break and I honestly can't say if or when I'll be back.  I can't bring myself to finish The Hulk, I can't be bothered with DDQ, and I have no interest in fighting for Cloak and Dagger, even though they're two of my favourite characters from when I first started reading Marvel back in the 80s.  What's the point in building my roster when you can just swoop in and undo all my hard work whenever you feel like it?  I've forgiven so many nerfs you've made over the years, but this is the final straw.

Milamber42

Well @Brigby, you're online. Any insightful words of wisdom from D3?

Edit: well, he was online, and not prepared to put any word in here as yet.

Zalasta

Agree with so many posts above. It is super insulting that my level 300, 10 cover OML is only worth 24k ISO and 2 five-star tokens. Seriously?? I'm done with VIP or any additional purchases until things change around here. It will be nice to have a little more free time. Thanks for nothing D3.

//Removed Profanity - Brigby