Upcoming Character Change to Wolverine (Old Man Logan)

killerkoala

i don't think his usage was a problem it was just a new way to nickle and dime us to buy more health packs.

Phaserhawk

I think the most infuriating part is he was working as intended. With how OML was released and who were the first 3 5*'s he was the easiest to obtain and the only one worthwhile. Current 5*'s are vastly more powerful but are impossible to get serviceable. The great thing on OML and why he was used so much was that 5*'s match dmg is insane, like I have no idea why they made it that high. Thus you could have a couple covers in OML max him as far as you could and he was better than all your 4*'s overall because he did more dmg matching and healed. So the problem has never been true healing or usage. It's that D3 has restricted access to 5*'s so much and their overall power is so insane that this game is severely out of balance. Either 5*'s need an overall dmg health nerf or 3*'s and 4*'s need big upgrades 

The Herald

Phaserhawk said:

I think the most infuriating part is he was working as intended. With how OML was released and who were the first 3 5*'s he was the easiest to obtain and the only one worthwhile. Current 5*'s are vastly more powerful but are impossible to get serviceable. The great thing on OML and why he was used so much was that 5*'s match dmg is insane, like I have no idea why they made it that high. Thus you could have a couple covers in OML max him as far as you could and he was better than all your 4*'s overall because he did more dmg matching and healed. So the problem has never been true healing or usage. It's that D3 has restricted access to 5*'s so much and their overall power is so insane that this game is severely out of balance. Either 5*'s need an overall dmg health nerf or 3*'s and 4*'s need big upgrades 

3* and 4* are fine at high Champion levels.

Them being gated off so you can't get them there unless you're a big spender is then a separate problem X_X

Syleye

still waiting for a response on how they justify misleading  to their player base regarding further nerfs

Quebbster

Syleye said:

still waiting for a response on how they justify misleading  to their player base regarding further nerfs

Wasn't that explained in the initial post?

Demiurge Lead Designer wrote:

As you recall, we’ve been focusing on character updates that increase the power of those characters, and monitoring how well that’s impacted team diversity and the competitive experience. Over time, we’ve seen that 4-star character positive rebalances have significantly improved those characters’ usability and ability to win battles. However, the same has not been true of improvements to 5-stars such as Silver Surfer (Skyrider) and Steve Rogers (First Avengers), due in largest part to the ubiquity and strength of Wolverine (Old Man Logan).

Old Man Logan, as one of our first 5-stars and one of our first characters with multiple sets of powers, is stronger and significantly more useful than most other options for one’s team, even when he’s at low covers. Over 10% of all battles won include an Old Man Logan on the player’s team. This is higher than the win or play rate of any other character in the game even when those characters are Powered-Up. We believe that his ubiquity and power is reducing options for team composition - Old Man Logan is significantly better even than other 5-stars at low covers, and he’s pushing out otherwise viable 4-star and 5-star options because he warrants a permanent place on the team.

To that end, Old Man Logan will be our first major rebalance to decrease power since the start of our regular season rebalances. We hope that this change to Old Man Logan will be sufficient and that we can return to the rebalances that increase power we’ve been doing. We’ll continue to monitor how the metagame and team composition evolves - if you have feedback on character rebalances, such as this one, please let us know!

The middle paragraph, in particular, quite nicely explains why the developers felt OML needed to be downpowered.

killerkoala

still doesn't give us a reason why they need to nerf him cause we use him too much.  isn't the point of game for us to make a team we feel like using.  if not, then they should just pre-select every node in pve so we play the game they want us to play. oh wait; i better not give them any ideas.   nothing to see here.   and i do recall  they did say they wanted 5*'s to be usable in a few covers, mission accomplished.  oh damn, health packs sale are dipping; we gotta do something.  and now we as a player base are getting nickled and dimed, like airlines do to the rest of the world.

Syleye

The so called explanation was based on faulty data and a desire to grab money, and frankly there really isn't a justification. Lie once loose the trust period

Phaserhawk

I still laugh. "Nearly 10% of all wins have OML". So that means........wait for it......90% of the games one DO NOT!!!!!!!

Xenoberyll

Phaserhawk said:

I still laugh. "Nearly 10% of all wins have OML". So that means........wait for it......90% of the games one DO NOT!!!!!!!

Remember that other Wolverine nerf? I bet Xforce was used way more. 10% is fairly low imho

MissChinch

I keep seeing this 10% thing...  did they ever say that OML was the most used character?  Judging from the chatter on Line and all my queues I'd imagine theres multiple characters that appear much more frequently than 10% of the time in winning teams.  I thought the 10% was more of an anecdote than a reason... but maybe just because I assumed 10% usage wasn't a big deal...   Theres 3 spots for heros, 10% doesn't seem that big a deal...

Jonny1Punch

Thanos was already vastly superior prior to this and is now pretty much on every team in mid-high level pvp dominating. Surely once he hits the dangerous 10% nerf criteria he'll get cut down to size and then some too right D3? It's only fair, you've set a precedent with the oml nerf you gotta remain consistent across the board now. Hopefully your health pack sales being increased were worth betraying and violating your player base with such a cheap and senseless cash-grab nerf. 

Azoth658

Do people really only play with one character at a time? Yes there are characters who are really useful but the game is way more fun if your play around with your team's.

If one character is used in 10% of all victories in the game then he is over used.

Yes maybe Thanos is used a lot but I doubt it's anywhere near 10%.

Maybe a top 10 usage % stats would show the gap that people don't believe exists.

I doubt Thanos would even be 2% of all victories. Due to age but also his team self harm. He's super powerful but only with strong true healers (who we now lack in the game). Yes he might be people's last PvP victory but you can't continually win without health packs or switching the rest of your team out. OML didn't have that issue. Keep climbing.

msp2211

(Sarcasm) Nerf Blad3. I'll bet he was used in 100% of the victories in the High Stakes PVP. His strike tiles must make him more useful than other options. We should probably watch Spid3y too. That blue stun. I'd guess he will be over used in Webslinger. (End sarcasm)

It isn't the data, it is the interpretation of the data. It is the context of how the data is presented. You can make data show anything you want, depending upon how you present it. 

The developers have remained silent on almost everything since announcing the OML nerf. We won't know the goal of the nerf, or the context of their data set. The silence, however, speaks volumes.

killerkoala

i still think usage of OML didn't matter, it was the non buying of health packs.   as for thano5 as long as he makes everyone have to use health packs after  a battle or 2 he will be ok, i hope.

Phaserhawk

 Here's the reality phoenix Logan and silver surfer for the first three in anyone that was a veteran was able to obtain those easier than any other five star since that release because they were the only one so when you diluted the five star pool as it has been those three characters are going to have the highest concentration of covers as we all know  leveling a five star does  lot of match damage loss you want to have one Logan was unique in that he had a shield that was very useful Phoenix and silver surfer not as much but still I guarantee you those of the other more popular five stars because they were the easiest to obtain that is why Logan had such a high play rate he was the easiest to get for most of veteran players add to the fact that he healed and did tons of match damage and yeah he's going to get used but I guarantee you if I had better access to five star characters I wouldn't have been playing with Logan because I felt his mechanics were really hard to get off a majority of the time I would've been using Doctor Strange or sandals black panther that's what really sucks is he's not that great of a five star he just was useful if you didn't have very many five stars

Syleye

I really wish they would release these magic statistics with all the data for us. Of course they won't but one can hope.

byc

I'm just trying to enjoy my 5* Thanos before the nerf hammer come down.

Borstock

killerkoala said:

i still think usage of OML didn't matter, it was the non buying of health packs.   as for thano5 as long as he makes everyone have to use health packs after  a battle or 2 he will be ok, i hope.

Does OML really save that many health packs, though? When I use him to burn through lightning rounds and easy PvE nodes, I never have to heal him and mine doesn't have a Yellow cover. I think mine is at 2/0/5 and lvl 333. I can't use him in real PvP or PvE matches, because my boosted champ 4* roster is much stronger than he is. And a lot of people with rosters significantly better than mine have said they don't use him, anyway.

Bowgentle

Borstock said:

killerkoala said:

i still think usage of OML didn't matter, it was the non buying of health packs.   as for thano5 as long as he makes everyone have to use health packs after  a battle or 2 he will be ok, i hope.

Does OML really save that many health packs, though?

Yes, he did.
With a champed OML with 5 yellow you could eat Headbutts from a 440+ Juggs (18K damage per) all day and heal to full 4 turns after.
Many 5s are better in single matches, but for sustainability there was no one better.

killerkoala

scaled pve match damage can now dwindle down oml, let alone getting hit by powers. he had lower hit points cause he healed them back, now he is 2/3 the hit points for 5* compared to others and now heals 1/3 less to none if others are downed.  they should have adjusted his health to coincide his healing nerf.  as for transforming him, with his heals you could take ur time to gather the colors u needed, now it's a rush to not let him die for pve.