The Hunt for the Falcon - April 18 - 27

Unknown

This is the first time I'm seeing a real separation between the levels of the nodes where I'm getting a good mix of easy -> hard nodes.

Unknown

Emeryt wrote:

the scAvengers just broke 1kk


http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/615 ... 089B2B885/

time to bed. good night.

show off


joking joking grats.

wish the all female alliance Im in could be that good to get up there. I haven't even touched the nodes in hours, trying to level up my heroes. Everything gets too difficult for me. So im using the prologue and shield training to help me out

daveomite

Phantron wrote:

daveomite wrote:

great. I have level 180 goon only nodes right now, and lucky if any DA nodes are less than 180 at all. Can only imagine what will happen once i get my first refresh. So does than mean if I deleted my 1/0/5 spidey that my nodes would reduce? I really doubt it would. But would consider it that would actually work.

The scaling goes up quickly if you're winning fights unreasonable successfully, which is almost always tied to the presence of Spiderman. But whatever scaling you already had is going to stick with you.

Keep in mind they're trying to make nodes, especially the hardest one, not reliably beatable so that there can actually be some separation between the players, so just because some missions seems unbeatable doesn't mean it's broken. A mission like Bullseye 3 is probably not meant to be beatable for the vast majority of players. Now if every mission is unbeatable then we got a problem, but from what I can tell this time around there's a pretty good mix of relatively easy nodes with the hard nodes.

I don't even use spiderman at all in any of the main/sub of this event, up until the last couple of matches I did because obw was downed and I was out of health packs.

so...If nodes are meant to be somewhat passable, true, possibly...once.

sounds like more separation for the top groups, meaning the rest of us, especially those under 60 days, basically have no chance to place that high as that is apparently "reserved" for the "elite". Just like the separation between the rich and poor. There's something inherently wrong with that.

I should, as anyone should, be able to play all nodes as part of each players progression; not be faced with the sky high mount st. Helens that they would have to try to scale with an ice pick instead of the proper tools.

sorry, but none of that makes any real sense to me whatsoever. All players should be treated equally, all facing their challenges as they can. If a level is too hard, they train/upgrade until they can beat that level; instead of not being able to beat a level, train, then find that level is now harder because you trained, you bought upgrades, and because other people in your bracket are trying to make their alliance #1 pushing up scaling for everyone.

again, sorry...D3, that is one really screwed up way of trying to have the perfect system that allows those who have played longer, that were able to get better covers on pulls before there were so many new characters, before all the alliance stuff started.... that the system allows them to excel rather than allowing new players the same opportunities you may have all had.

I'm fine with the challenge. I fight and match for hours a day. I've won brackets and matches that I barely walked out of. I may not have every 3 star character leveled up yet, but I can still hold my own in most situations. My problem is the over abundance of 3 star characters that I have managed to get a cover for, then paid to add them, that I never get another cover for.

Why? More characters since you originally started...meaning less and less chance on any cover pull. Less rewards for single players...less covers available unless you have paid through the nose to have an elite 20 person alliance, or manage to get on one.

All that does is boost said strong alliances, and limits growth of newer players overall, period. You can see it happening the more you read on this forum, or talk to other players. There is a clear line being drawn between the select few and the rest of us.

That is what is so disappointing about a game that I found, dove into, spent money on, only to realize that no matter what I do or how hard/good I may play... that I will still be confined in my choices, and facing walls that some elite player put in front of me with their 5 or 6 3 star characters that they have maxed out.

And yes, I honestly hope that someone like icex reads this and can understand. Maybe I wound up in this gray area because of some transition tatic, whatever it is, let me play how I play when I want to play. I have only just now become outspoken about it as I been watching this steady change happen. It is what it is, I'll just have to decide if I'm really willing to even care about my placement anymore, regardless of what rewards I may win for placing higher.

Unknown

daveomite wrote:

Phantron wrote:

daveomite wrote:

great. I have level 180 goon only nodes right now, and lucky if any DA nodes are less than 180 at all. Can only imagine what will happen once i get my first refresh. So does than mean if I deleted my 1/0/5 spidey that my nodes would reduce? I really doubt it would. But would consider it that would actually work.

The scaling goes up quickly if you're winning fights unreasonable successfully, which is almost always tied to the presence of Spiderman. But whatever scaling you already had is going to stick with you.

Keep in mind they're trying to make nodes, especially the hardest one, not reliably beatable so that there can actually be some separation between the players, so just because some missions seems unbeatable doesn't mean it's broken. A mission like Bullseye 3 is probably not meant to be beatable for the vast majority of players. Now if every mission is unbeatable then we got a problem, but from what I can tell this time around there's a pretty good mix of relatively easy nodes with the hard nodes.

I don't even use spiderman at all in any of the main/sub of this event, up until the last couple of matches I did because obw was downed and I was out of health packs.

so...If nodes are meant to be somewhat passable, true, possibly...once.

sounds like more separation for the top groups, meaning the rest of us, especially those under 60 days, basically have no chance to place that high as that is apparently "reserved" for the "elite". Just like the separation between the rich and poor. There's something inherently wrong with that.

I should, as anyone should, be able to play all nodes as part of each players progression; not be faced with the sky high mount st. Helens that they would have to try to scale with an ice pick instead of the proper tools.

sorry, but none of that makes any real sense to me whatsoever. All players should be treated equally, all facing their challenges as they can. If a level is too hard, they train/upgrade until they can beat that level; instead of not being able to beat a level, train, then find that level is now harder because you trained, you bought upgrades, and because other people in your bracket are trying to make their alliance #1 pushing up scaling for everyone.

again, sorry...D3, that is one really screwed up way of trying to have the perfect system that allows those who have played longer, that were able to get better covers on pulls before there were so many new characters, before all the alliance stuff started.... that the system allows them to excel rather than allowing new players the same opportunities you may have all had.

I'm fine with the challenge. I fight and match for hours a day. I've won brackets and matches that I barely walked out of. I may not have every 3 star character leveled up yet, but I can still hold my own in most situations. My problem is the over abundance of 3 star characters that I have managed to get a cover for, then paid to add them, that I never get another cover for.

Why? More characters since you originally started...meaning less and less chance on any cover pull. Less rewards for single players...less covers available unless you have paid through the nose to have an elite 20 person alliance, or manage to get on one.

All that does is boost said strong alliances, and limits growth of newer players overall, period. You can see it happening the more you read on this forum, or talk to other players. There is a clear line being drawn between the select few and the rest of us.

That is what is so disappointing about a game that I found, dove into, spent money on, only to realize that no matter what I do or how hard/good I may play... that I will still be confined in my choices, and facing walls that some elite player put in front of me with their 5 or 6 3 star characters that they have maxed out.

And yes, I honestly hope that someone like icex reads this and can understand. Maybe I wound up in this gray area because of some transition tatic, whatever it is, let me play how I play when I want to play. I have only just now become outspoken about it as I been watching this steady change happen. It is what it is, I'll just have to decide if I'm really willing to even care about my placement anymore, regardless of what rewards I may win for placing higher.

I'm sure there are some high-level players crushing it with Spidey/Mags, and that is contributing a small amount to the problem you're experiencing. However, those player represent a tiny fraction of the overall player base. It's actually the low tier rosters who are grinding nodes against low level enemies en masse that are likely the biggest culprit here. The "1%ers" can only complete so many missions as a group. The large mass of newer players can beat nodes on an exponentially grander scale. I suspect your anger is misdirected - it's the current implementation of community scaling that's smacking everyone at all levels in the face.

Unknown

Ya I'm backing up WYP here. The established heavy weights are the ones more likely to be able to beat the level high level nodes, but they are also the ones to take the path of least resistance. I myself only join brackets with one refresh left and play as minimal as possible to a respectable finish. Holding 54th right now in my main bracket not joining any active subs yet. While the masses generally are going to be the ones hammering the nodes grinding them to nubs collecting all the rewards. As I understand it scaling is supposed to be the more people beat it, the harder it is supposed to get collectively. Well then it is obvious which group is to blame here. Probably the Dev's hah, but right after that its the low level rosters, aka unwashed masses, aka zombie horde.

Unknown

So 8 or 12 hr resets?

daveomite

WYP and Chim....I can agree with both of you. I am 100% not blaming those of you that have been here from the beginning of the game, but mainly at how they have devised this scaling routine and rubber banding that seems to treat each player differently.

I too do not start any sub immediately, most at least one full day into the event before I even do one node. However, that doesn't seem to fix it, as I instantly have higher level nodes no matter when I walk in, all with semi mediocre point levels.

I'm aware that maybe my team is part of the issue, or my play style and how often I play. Like I said, I currently have over 50k in points at least, and that is with missing almost an entire day due to the business that I run related issues. So in a sense, I progressed faster than what the system may have expected in some areas, yet not fully prepared for the onslaught of higher and higher level nodes. Like the system views me as more powerful, even if I'm not. I win nodes with how I play, not by having the best and most powerful, full leveled up players.

I do have some that are leveled, and they help. But being a player on day 59 facing nodes that, unless I win a cascade landslide, I have very little shot of winning unless I max boost everything and have an absolutely perfect board with exactly what I need on the spot.

So, sorry if my post offended any long time, higher level player...believe me, it was not at all meant that way.

HailMary

daveomite wrote:

sounds like more separation for the top groups, meaning the rest of us, especially those under 60 days, basically have no chance to place that high as that is apparently "reserved" for the "elite". Just like the separation between the rich and poor. There's something inherently wrong with that.

I should, as anyone should, be able to play all nodes as part of each players progression; not be faced with the sky high mount st. Helens that they would have to try to scale with an ice pick instead of the proper tools.

I'm not a fan of the scaling, either, as L150+ Ares can one-shot most of my characters, and the AI seems to get massive cascades in every third villain fight.

But, here's a select sample of my main bracket's leaders:
#2 - no character higher than L66.
#4 - strongest character is also his only L85: AWolv.
#5 - 3 and only 3 L85's (one of them is MHawkeye). Nobody higher.
#9 - Again, 3 and only 3 L85's.
#10 - 1 L87 CMags, 1 L85 CStorm, everyone else below L74.

So, half of the top 10 I'm seeing do not have more than 3 L85's or even a single L100+. For the time being, scaling isn't locking out all under-60-day mid-tier players from high event placement.

daveomite wrote:

But being a player on day 59 facing nodes that, unless I win a cascade landslide, I have very little shot of winning unless I max boost everything and have an absolutely perfect board with exactly what I need on the spot.

As a Day 95ish player with neither stunlock nor infinite-turn capability, I feel ya. I've had a couple of nodes like that. I dread what scaling will look like 4 days from now... or tomorrow.

daveomite wrote:

Why? More characters since you originally started...meaning less and less chance on any cover pull. Less rewards for single players...less covers available unless you have paid through the nose to have an elite 20 person alliance, or manage to get on one.

...

That is what is so disappointing about a game that I found, dove into, spent money on, only to realize that no matter what I do or how hard/good I may play... that I will still be confined in my choices, and facing walls that some elite player put in front of me with their 5 or 6 3 star characters that they have maxed out.

And yes, I honestly hope that someone like icex reads this and can understand. Maybe I wound up in this gray area because of some transition tatic, whatever it is, let me play how I play when I want to play. I have only just now become outspoken about it as I been watching this steady change happen. It is what it is, I'll just have to decide if I'm really willing to even care about my placement anymore, regardless of what rewards I may win for placing higher.

I hear ya about the reduced cover rewards and cover pull probabilities. I want to see the 2-3 2* cover reward tiers reinstituted, and maybe a modification to tokens, esp. a return to guaranteed featured covers in 10-packs. I don't buy them, but it's a bit ridiculous for people to pay 3800 HP for no guarantee.

However, if you want to play in a significantly suboptimal way, that's entirely your choice. There seems to be a basic contradiction between your "no matter what I do or how hard/good I may play" statement and your "let me play how I play when I want to play" statement. The game still gives you rewards for playing suboptimally. Criticizing the game for not allowing a suboptimal player to progress as quickly as a near-optimal player is a bit silly.

Unknown

daveomite wrote:

So, sorry if my post offended any long time, higher level player...believe me, it was not at all meant that way.

I wasn't at all offended!

I think players at all levels are experiencing a little (or a LOT) of consternation at PvE scaling. One of the reasons I've stuck with MPQ so long is because of the challenge of figuring out the meta-game for different events. Learning to play optimally is a great deal of fun (if you're a giant dork like me and my crew). With the advent of community scaling, there is no strategy to be found so far to compensate for the impact of the actions of others. With the community variable in the equation, it's nearly impossible to isolate which actions/approaches will be beneficial.

We've got a PvE R&D thread going constantly in our alliance group where different members are approaching PvE with different strategies and comparing notes to figure out if there's a way to stave off these impacts. While they collect data points, it's my job to fire sub-atomic Spider-Men at nodes at velocities approaching the speed of light and see what happens at the quantum level. So far, the only correlation I've found at the quantum level is that Spidey's webbing can also be referred to as super string.

We've come up with bupkus so far. Reckless is running the same team with the same number of clears and similar timing to other members in our group, and her levels are scaling above 230 while others with the same approach are getting 130s. I think that's the biggest frustration point for me - it feels like it pulls individual player agency out of the game design.

With PvP, the sliders may move, but an attentive player can adjust on the fly and still excel. With community scaling, you can play efficiently, tank, die alot, or rotate your roster, and you'll still end up with the same random weights around your neck. I've just reached the point where I've embraced the ridiculous scaling and just brute force my way through the scaling, but playing the fewest number of missions possible to get the new covers. It's not as fun as the old system (or at all), but I'mma get my Falcon.

Unknown

They really need to balance Daken for these high level scaling. The enemy teams that don't have Daken actually need the level 230+ stuff. Daken, on the other hand, most certainly doesn't need any more help.

Unknown

I wrote a longread on my thoughts on scaling over in the "Lifespan of MPQ" thread over in General, but the TL;DR version is this: The sole purpose of scaling is to create uncertainty and discomfort amongst players, to pressure them into cash shop purchases.


All of the recent changes in the game all serve to increase player discomfort:

-- Alliances and prizes moved to alliance-only placement in events
-- Lowering of MMR scaling to allow lower-tier players to score higher, forcing higher-tier players to score higher to maintain equal placement in Versus events
-- Removal of all guaranteed covers from tourneys except for Versus events
-- Removal of two of the three 2** covers from Versus tournaments
-- The upcoming Season-long tournaments
-- PvE scaling that is unmanageable by players.
-- Raising of the scaling cap to 400 to counter players who could manage level 230s (except maybe Daken)
-- Obsolescence of older characters with newer versions, which are either required characters or Powered-Up in events.

The only temporary panacea is to buy those missing covers and level them with ISO packs to temporarily keep up with the game. But, such comfort is only temporary, as the next event will restart the discomfort cycle once again.

Fun thought... Savage Lands round 2 doesn't start until Alaska ends, which should show the full effects of a few extra days of scaling. That round should knock out everyone short of well-rostered players, as at current pacing, nodes there should start in the 120s and only go up from there for the 2** and transition crowd.

Another fun thought... There are two more laps around the entire three-sub circuit left to go. By Lap 3 around the nodes, how many more players will cave in and finish covering their Lazy Caps and Thors to be able to even have a chance against level 200+ nodes everywhere to win Falcon covers?

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

They really need to balance Daken for these high level scaling. The enemy teams that don't have Daken actually need the level 230+ stuff. Daken, on the other hand, most certainly doesn't need any more help.

Sure, Daken will be balanced...

... to require a whole new set of characters at higher power/ability levels to combat him effectively. Daken will be the new Patch and will change the meta accordingly.

Unknown

Lyrian wrote:

Phantron wrote:

They really need to balance Daken for these high level scaling. The enemy teams that don't have Daken actually need the level 230+ stuff. Daken, on the other hand, most certainly doesn't need any more help.

Sure, Daken will be balanced...

... to require a whole new set of characters at higher power/ability levels to combat him effectively. Daken will be the new Patch and will change the meta accordingly.

Daken has always been way stronger than the rest of the DAs, sometimes combined, at high levels. I don't think there's any secret plan to make a special character that can handle Daken. At level 280, a lot of the time it feels like you just got hit by a Berserker Rage, except there are no strike tiles for you.

daveomite

HailMary wrote:

I hear ya about the reduced cover rewards and cover pull probabilities. I want to see the 2-3 2* cover reward tiers reinstituted, and maybe a modification to tokens, esp. a return to guaranteed featured covers in 10-packs. I don't buy them, but it's a bit ridiculous for people to pay 3800 HP for no guarantee.

However, if you want to play in a significantly suboptimal way, that's entirely your choice. There seems to be a basic contradiction between your "no matter what I do or how hard/good I may play" statement and your "let me play how I play when I want to play" statement. The game still gives you rewards for playing suboptimally. Criticizing the game for not allowing a suboptimal player to progress as quickly as a near-optimal player is a bit silly.

Thanks for the comments... good ones too

About the "contradiction" - part due to frustration... part due to trying to make my finger work for hitting small keys on my phone... and part due to the frustration of trying to do that with my phone... (fun times). What I was trying to get across - I am trying to do the same as others, I mean, learn the best ways of playing and when - and still learning about the "meta" involved. But, those times that I do play, I do my best to play as good as I can, and as smart as possible about characters/nodes, etc. That is "how I play" - so, I didn't mean a contradiction, rather, every person probably plays the game differently, in their own way. So, my way may be identical to how others play, then again, maybe not at all.

I'm in the top 50 in my main bracket now, could probably be higher but have been pacing myself waiting for closer to the end, and hopefully some reduction in some node levels.

walkyourpath wrote:

I wasn't at all offended!

Thank goodness. Last thing I need is for anyone on the S.H.I.E.L.D. team to come gunning after me right now, lol.

walkyourpath wrote:

I think players at all levels are experiencing a little (or a LOT) of consternation at PvE scaling.

I'm gathering that from posts/comments on the forum, believe me.

walkyourpath wrote:

...it's my job to fire sub-atomic Spider-Men at nodes at velocities approaching the speed of light and see what happens at the quantum level.

um... ker-splat happens? lol. Interesting visual indeed.

walkyourpath wrote:

We've come up with bupkus so far. Reckless is running the same team with the same number of clears and similar timing to other members in our group, and her levels are scaling above 230 while others with the same approach are getting 130s. I think that's the biggest frustration point for me - it feels like it pulls individual player agency out of the game design.

Completely agree. I'm seeing the same type of things, where I know I'm getting hit, and some others I read on here are too... but then others with similar characters/teams are passing right through with -150 level nodes.

walkyourpath wrote:

...but I'mma get my Falcon

Tis my goal too. You know, this "Hunt for the Falcon".... too bad they didn't wait closer to October, considering his main costume color is red... then it could have been named "Hunt for Red October" - which it pretty much seems like we're all doing anyway, but in April.

Phantron wrote:

They really need to balance Daken for these high level scaling. The enemy teams that don't have Daken actually need the level 230+ stuff. Daken, on the other hand, most certainly doesn't need any more help.

Here, here... and then some. Damn, when he's 230+, my team gets the full on slice and dice treatment handed to them.

Lyrian wrote:

Fun thought... Savage Lands round 2 doesn't start until Alaska ends, which should show the full effects of a few extra days of scaling. That round should knock out everyone short of well-rostered players, as at current pacing, nodes there should start in the 120s and only go up from there for the 2** and transition crowd.

Another fun thought... There are two more laps around the entire three-sub circuit left to go. By Lap 3 around the nodes, how many more players will cave in and finish covering their Lazy Caps and Thors to be able to even have a chance against level 200+ nodes everywhere to win Falcon covers?

Agreed. That was the main thought I was having when writing the post. If I'm already facing an average of 150+ nodes, some already in the 190-220 range, then wow. In one day, how much higher will it get? That's the scary part, and part of why I stated I've already put my money in and leveled up who I could. Happy I did as I wouldn't have much of a chance now at all. But paying more to buy more covers for characters right now, not sure I can justify that. Not because I couldn't afford it, but because I shouldn't have to just to play a game that I love.

Unknown

One of the biggest problem of scaling is that this game is very poorly balanced at certain places. If you are to make a power level chart for the level 200+ DAs + affiliates, it'd probably look like this:

Daken tier - Daken

Broken - Juggernaut

Very good - Ares, The Hood

Okay - Moonstone, Venom, Ragnarok, Dr. Doom

Kind of weak - Bullseye

Yelena tier - Yelena

The problem is that these guys are mixed assuming everyone is roughly equally powerful, so you get say a level 230 Ares/Moonstone/Bullseye which is definitely doable, and then next fight you get Juggernaut instantly killing a guy with 6 red (at least he's not a choice in this event), and he isn't even the strongest guy in the enemy list.

They really need to change it so that lower * characters don't get a disproportional buff for the +level effects beyond their cap. If there was a level 300 Modern Storm running around, that'd be pretty scary too.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Lyrian wrote:

Phantron wrote:

They really need to balance Daken for these high level scaling. The enemy teams that don't have Daken actually need the level 230+ stuff. Daken, on the other hand, most certainly doesn't need any more help.

Sure, Daken will be balanced...

... to require a whole new set of characters at higher power/ability levels to combat him effectively. Daken will be the new Patch and will change the meta accordingly.

Daken has always been way stronger than the rest of the DAs, sometimes combined, at high levels. I don't think there's any secret plan to make a special character that can handle Daken. At level 280, a lot of the time it feels like you just got hit by a Berserker Rage, except there are no strike tiles for you.

Umm... that character is called Falcon?

Inspiration boosts defense tiles to mitigate any strike tiles Daken has already deployed.
Redwing seeks out and disarms Daken's strike tiles.
Bird Strike floods the board with Protect tiles, in what appears to be a similar manner to MStorm's Hailstorm; thereby denying red tiles for Daken to place his strike tiles.

Falcon screams "Anti-Daken" across all of his abilities.

You are correct in stating that Daken did not need to be more powerful than he already his. Yet, he is definitely receiving a power upgrade. Depending on what that Blue active skill actually does, Daken is either going to be extremely annoying if the Blue skill is weak, or outright torturous if his Blue skill is strong. Which one do you think would generate more cover sales for him?

Trust me, I would love to be very wrong on Daken. Given the precedent by Gold Cap and Gold Thor, I very strongly doubt that Gold Daken is going to be any less powerful from than these two, which are already a cut above most 3*** characters that are not semi-broken.

daveomite

Phantron wrote:

One of the biggest problem of scaling is that this game is very poorly balanced at certain places. If you are to make a power level chart for the level 200+ DAs + affiliates, it'd probably look like this:

Daken tier - Daken

Broken - Juggernaut

Very good - Ares, The Hood

Okay - Moonstone, Venom, Ragnarok, Dr. Doom

Kind of weak - Bullseye

Yelena tier - Yelena

The problem is that these guys are mixed assuming everyone is roughly equally powerful, so you get say a level 230 Ares/Moonstone/Bullseye which is definitely doable, and then next fight you get Juggernaut instantly killing a guy with 6 red (at least he's not a choice in this event), and he isn't even the strongest guy in the enemy list.

They really need to change it so that lower * characters don't get a disproportional buff for the +level effects beyond their cap. If there was a level 300 Modern Storm running around, that'd be pretty scary too.

agreed. And right, ares/yelena/bullseye at 230, probably doable...but ares/rags/daken or venom at 230+, they can all cause massive hp issues quickly.

daveomite

Oh...and don't even freak me out about some 300 storm of any kind, lol. That would be insane.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

One of the biggest problem of scaling is that this game is very poorly balanced at certain places. If you are to make a power level chart for the level 200+ DAs + affiliates, it'd probably look like this:

Daken tier - Daken

Broken - Juggernaut

Very good - Ares, The Hood

Okay - Moonstone, Venom, Ragnarok, Dr. Doom

Kind of weak - Bullseye

Yelena tier - Yelena

Only point I think I'd disagree on is Bullseye. At high levels his protect tiles pretty much shut down match damage. I think he rates an 'okay'.

kensterr

What are your "Top of the World" levels in the main bracket? Mine has gone up from 161/162/161 to 183/184/184 overnight. I just go through the nodes once per refresh, sometimes not even completing all the nodes if i'm already in the top 10 for the sub-bracket. And I only used Spidey stunlock once, and I came out of that match without healing, with Spidey almost dead. Gah!