Upcoming Feature: Tournament Seasons Discussion

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

based off of the awards that iceIX mentioned, seems like this is just another minor carrot to incentivize people to play tournaments that they wouldn't have otherwise: I doubt we're getting a huge 5k hp reward for first (although I would probably expect 1-2k hp).

If it's just a 'thank you for continue to support the game' then I have no problem with it even if it's just effectively the same as giving out extra rewards on every existing tournament. I'd think it'd be easier to just simply give out more rewards every tournament but if this works better that's fine with me.

I was actually thinking the season winner should have stuff comparable to an elite tournament which is why I think it needs to use MMR as the score, and if you got elite tournament level prizes that'd hopefully give people an incentive to not tank and thus open up the regular PvP tournaments to more people, sinec the top players can compete in the season event instead.

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

based off of the awards that iceIX mentioned, seems like this is just another minor carrot to incentivize people to play tournaments that they wouldn't have otherwise: I doubt we're getting a huge 5k hp reward for first (although I would probably expect 1-2k hp).

If it's just a 'thank you for continue to support the game' then I have no problem with it even if it's just effectively the same as giving out extra rewards on every existing tournament. I'd think it'd be easier to just simply give out more rewards every tournament but if this works better that's fine with me.

I was actually thinking the season winner should have stuff comparable to an elite tournament which is why I think it needs to use MMR as the score, and if you got elite tournament level prizes that'd hopefully give people an incentive to not tank and thus open up the regular PvP tournaments to more people, sinec the top players can compete in the season event instead.

Ehh, I think psychologically it feels different. Doing it this way makes it so that the playerbase feels compelled to do their best in every tournament so that they can get their shiny reward at the end of the month. I doubt adding extra rewards to each tournament would have the same impact because it wouldn't change people's playing habits since there isn't an overarching goal looming over their heads.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phantron wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

based off of the awards that iceIX mentioned, seems like this is just another minor carrot to incentivize people to play tournaments that they wouldn't have otherwise: I doubt we're getting a huge 5k hp reward for first (although I would probably expect 1-2k hp).

If it's just a 'thank you for continue to support the game' then I have no problem with it even if it's just effectively the same as giving out extra rewards on every existing tournament. I'd think it'd be easier to just simply give out more rewards every tournament but if this works better that's fine with me.

I was actually thinking the season winner should have stuff comparable to an elite tournament which is why I think it needs to use MMR as the score, and if you got elite tournament level prizes that'd hopefully give people an incentive to not tank and thus open up the regular PvP tournaments to more people, sinec the top players can compete in the season event instead.

Ehh, I think psychologically it feels different. Doing it this way makes it so that the playerbase feels compelled to do their best in every tournament so that they can get their shiny reward at the end of the month. I doubt adding extra rewards to each tournament would have the same impact because it wouldn't change people's playing habits since there isn't an overarching goal looming over their heads.

Well none of this is going to matter if it's not bracketed as it would be top 20 every shield member , then the rest of us.

Unknown

sms4002 wrote:

Well none of this is going to matter if it's not bracketed as it would be top 20 every shield member , then the rest of us.

Give other players some credit. Shield just hand picked 20 psychos. There are more than 20 psychos available but they are not all in another rival alliance. That's the problem, there are one of the (maybe only) alliance who picked based on tourney performance. If it was top X players for the month I would guarantee the top 20 would not be all shield, but over half would be easily.

Katai

Chimaera wrote:

sms4002 wrote:

Well none of this is going to matter if it's not bracketed as it would be top 20 every shield member , then the rest of us.

Give other players some credit. Shield just hand picked 20 psychos. There are more than 20 psychos available but they are not all in another rival alliance. That's the problem, there are one of the (maybe only) alliance who picked based on tourney performance. If it was top X players for the month I would guarantee the top 20 would not be all shield, but over half would be easily.

Is that before or after the alliance kicks all low ranking members to recruit from the top 20? Alliance politics can be cutthroat >_>

Unknown

Katai wrote:

Is that before or after the alliance kicks all low ranking members to recruit from the top 20? Alliance politics can be cutthroat >_>

No alliance would ever do that........


maybe 1

Unknown

Katai wrote:

Is that before or after the alliance kicks all low ranking members to recruit from the top 20? Alliance politics can be cutthroat >_>

Nah man were cool

Just a little personally agitated with the changes. It is hard to strive for competition and community when the rewards are top heavy and exclusive to one alliance, or large alliances in general. Even consider 1/3 of the covers locked to the alliance bracket on a non rotating basis, members who cant get a large competitive alliance cannot even obtain those covers. We consistently get three covers which will put us farther ahead in events that use those characters next. Where shield members use (davecazz is on his what? 3rd shield so far? in the cap tourney) HP stocks from winning 500hp every 3 days to make sure they win again. Even if he doesn't want that that IW cover (he probably does) he needs to keep it from others to maintain ranking.

I see shield use the argument that they need to push because it has been close race sometimes, but have they lost once? ?

I play diligently but am starting to resent needing to bring my A game every tourney because the devs keep developing ways to stop you from taking breaks. Burnout is going to become quite a threat in general to everyone.

Unknown

TheUnwiseOne wrote:

Katai wrote:

Is that before or after the alliance kicks all low ranking members to recruit from the top 20? Alliance politics can be cutthroat >_>

No alliance would ever do that........


maybe 1

think you meant 5

Unknown

beezer37_84 wrote:

TheUnwiseOne wrote:

Katai wrote:

Is that before or after the alliance kicks all low ranking members to recruit from the top 20? Alliance politics can be cutthroat >_>

No alliance would ever do that........


maybe 1

think you meant 5

oh yeah your right, my bad

NorthernPolarity

Chimaera wrote:

Just a little personally agitated with the changes. It is hard to strive for competition and community when the rewards are top heavy and exclusive to one alliance, or large alliances in general.

I'm guessing that the devs were thinking on the macro level: when you have 2.5k alliances in the game, adding separate reward tiers for 1, 2-5, 5-10, 10-20, etc seems miniscule in the grand scheme of things. However, it's obvious that most, if not all of the people that are in a top 20 alliance are on this forum, and so it would be a nice gesture from the devs to the forum community if they further broke down the rewards distribution so that the forumgoers can meaningfully compete with each other.

Chimaera wrote:

Even consider 1/3 of the covers locked to the alliance bracket on a non rotating basis, members who cant get a large competitive alliance cannot even obtain those covers.

Since these covers were taken away from the top 5 placement awards, I would imagine that anyone who was good enough to place top 5 in PvP events would be able to get into a large competitive alliance. I'm sure that there are obviously exceptions to this, but on a large scale I don't see this change meaningfully affect cover acquisition negatively for a majority of the playerbase. Not to mention that this also allows people who weren't strong enough to place in the top 5 a chance at these covers if their alliance can carry them.

Chimaera wrote:

I play diligently but am starting to resent needing to bring my A game every tourney because the devs keep developing ways to stop you from taking breaks. Burnout is going to become quite a threat in general to everyone.

Yeah, I worry about this as well.

Beast1970

What will the seasons be named? I can't wait to see the competition for first place in the Season of our Discontent...

Unknown

Chimaera wrote:

I see shield use the argument that they need to push because it has been close race sometimes, but have they lost once? ?

It's because of the push that we haven't lost, as far as I can see. 5DV tends to charge towards the end of a tourney, and has closed to 1K in the last 3 hours 2-3 times. FittedKitchens pulled it even closer not too long ago as well. That's only 50 pts. avg. per member, which they are more than capable of boosting through if needed. That cushion gives us the time we need to push a little further and maintain.

You're right, in other events the gap has been much larger, but we never know when someone is going to come charging at the end like these teams tend to, so it's just about being prepared.

As for HP towards shielding, I haven't seen the team's usual shielding habits change much since this all began. I personally budget myself 225HP towards shields on average (1x8hr. + 1x3hr, or 3x3hr), which would net me 25HP per tourney assuming Top 10 placement(100), 900 prog reward(50), and 2-50 Alliance HP prize(100). The few times I spend over that are when I know I'm going to be absent for the end of an event (1x24hr.), or if I'm scrambling to hit an 1100 prog cover like I did in Hotshot (4-5x3hr.). I would consider this to be roughly the approach/budget of most of the folks in the crew.

To be clear, I am not in favor of the 1/2-50 division of prizes at all, or of dividing cover prizes into alliance rewards. There's plenty that could be tweaked, and I'd really like to see the other teams on the leaderboard getting more tangible benefits for being there.

Linkster79

I'm going to make myself unpopular by hoping rewards for a months long acquisition of points are not too high.

There is already a feeling of resent that those who are in successful alliances are already getting advantages through cover and HP rewards than those who aren't, and if I am honest with myself I don't feel that it is fair that alliance rewads are top has a massive 500HP award compared to those who finish top 10 at just 100, that to me is too big a disparity. I know 2nd to 50th is the same reward amd that too is too big a grouping.

As a reward system a season long bonus should just be a little extra, a sort of thank you for all the time you the players invest and not something that could really unbalance the apple cart, be it either the I game economy or player morale.

Unknown

This sounds great and I'm excited for it.

I agree with some others that this won't really remove tanking. At least not with how I see it being implemented.

However, I think it should make alliances more active/competitive which is good. Sometimes a member doesn't feel the need to contribute to the alliance score because they don't personally need the cover rewards. Now they have a reason to do so.

Even for me, personally I slack off and just skate by top 10 because I don't think top 5 is worth it. With this change, I will likely aim for 1st every time. I'm still gonna tank prolifically though.

mischiefmaker

walkyourpath wrote:

As for HP towards shielding, I haven't seen the team's usual shielding habits change much since this all began. I personally budget myself 225HP towards shields on average (1x8hr. + 1x3hr, or 3x3hr), which would net me 25HP per tourney assuming Top 10 placement(100), 900 prog reward(50), and 2-50 Alliance HP prize(100). The few times I spend over that are when I know I'm going to be absent for the end of an event (1x24hr.), or if I'm scrambling to hit an 1100 prog cover like I did in Hotshot (4-5x3hr.). I would consider this to be roughly the approach/budget of most of the folks in the crew.

This is really interesting, thanks for sharing! It sounds to me like the gap between #1 and #2-50 is not as big as we might think:

#1: 500 alliance + 100 personal placement + 50 progression - 225 shields = 425 hp
#2-50: 100 alliance + 100 personal placement + 50 progression = 250 hp (assuming that you can manage a top 25 personal and top 50 alliance placement without using shields)

So yeah, it's still a 175 hp gap, which isn't nothing, but it's less than half of the 400 hp gap that we might otherwise think.

Soitswritten

I feel like the end of a season is guarenteed to be new character release. Fact? Fiction? What do you guys think?

Unknown

mischiefmaker wrote:

walkyourpath wrote:

As for HP towards shielding, I haven't seen the team's usual shielding habits change much since this all began. I personally budget myself 225HP towards shields on average (1x8hr. + 1x3hr, or 3x3hr), which would net me 25HP per tourney assuming Top 10 placement(100), 900 prog reward(50), and 2-50 Alliance HP prize(100). The few times I spend over that are when I know I'm going to be absent for the end of an event (1x24hr.), or if I'm scrambling to hit an 1100 prog cover like I did in Hotshot (4-5x3hr.). I would consider this to be roughly the approach/budget of most of the folks in the crew.

This is really interesting, thanks for sharing! It sounds to me like the gap between #1 and #2-50 is not as big as we might think:

#1: 500 alliance + 100 personal placement + 50 progression - 225 shields = 425 hp
#2-50: 100 alliance + 100 personal placement + 50 progression = 250 hp (assuming that you can manage a top 25 personal and top 50 alliance placement without using shields)

So yeah, it's still a 175 hp gap, which isn't nothing, but it's less than half of the 400 hp gap that we might otherwise think.

Yeah - as long as I am gaining HP every tournament then I am happy.

Unknown

One way or another, it would seem this is going to have a huge effect on MMR and tanking. You could just nab progressions and then tank Shield Vs. (if it will still even work) and go for a better chance in PVP events, or go for placement rewards and watch your MMR skyrocket.

Just a theory for good or for bad, and without knowledge of how they will implement it there is no way to tell.

The best way to do it would probably be to give it its own independent MMR based purely on your current progression level. That way no one could put the fix in and everyone would finally be on equal footing, at least for one game mode.

NorthernPolarity

Sugarman wrote:

One way or another, it would seem this is going to have a huge effect on MMR and tanking. You could just nab progressions and then tank Shield Vs. (if it will still even work) and go for a better chance in PVP events, or go for placement rewards and watch your MMR skyrocket.

Just a theory for good or for bad, and without knowledge of how they will implement it there is no way to tell.

The best way to do it would probably give it its own independent MMR based purely on your current progression level. That way no one could put the fix in and everyone would finally be on equal footing, at least for one game mode.

Wait what? Your final score in each tournament will count towards your overall progression score. Say you get up to 900 and lose 400 points down to 500 points, and thats where you end the tournament. You would only get 500 points (not 900) that counts towards your progression score, so you always just want to maximize your final tournament score for both placement and progression awards. I don't see how this would change MMR or tanking at all, since to do well in this season, you just need to do well in the individual tournaments, and the strategy for that remains the same.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Wait what? Your final score in each tournament will count towards your overall progression score. Say you get up to 900 and lose 400 points down to 500 points, and thats where you end the tournament. You would only get 500 points (not 900) that counts towards your progression score, so you always just want to maximize your final tournament score for both placement and progression awards. I don't see how this would change MMR or tanking at all, since to do well in this season, you just need to do well in the individual tournaments, and the strategy for that remains the same.

I can't find a way too assume that much without further data.