Brigby and Cthulu - when we will get feedback?

alphabeta

Brigby wrote:

- A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

As you can tell, these ideas are sparse in detail, as the team is still figuring out which could work the best. Once we have more information to provide, we'll be sure to update the community.

Since everyone else is weighing in with views on this list I will as well.

I really think D3/Demi aren't understanding how many long term players they are hanging on to by an ever decreasing thread.

These ideas are laughable - they are a clear attempt to turn a mistake into a money grab.

The solution here is so simple and obvious its laughable that its not even mentioned on the list above ....

Latest Legendary Store - Latest 3 5*s and 12 latest 4*s
Classic Legendary Store - Remaining 5*s and All older 4*s

Heroic Tokens - All 4*s and Half 3*s + 2*s
Elite tokens - the remaining 3*s +2*s

All of which should be achievable with the code in game today - if you can't hot fix that in via daily data push there is something seriously wrong

Crowl

alphabeta wrote:

The solution here is so simple and obvious its laughable that its not even mentioned on the list above ....

Latest Legendary Store - Latest 3 5*s and 12 latest 4*s
Classic Legendary Store - Remaining 5*s and All older 4*s

This has been suggested a number of times and is still as flawed as the first time it was suggested, forcing people to choose between which 5*s and which 4*s they want to collect is almost arbitrary and unnecessary a limitation as the vaulting decision when an even simpler solution would be two versions of each LT (one with newest 12 and one with all 4*s including that 12) as then people could get the 4*s and 5*s they want.

alphabeta

Crowl wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

The solution here is so simple and obvious its laughable that its not even mentioned on the list above ....

Latest Legendary Store - Latest 3 5*s and 12 latest 4*s
Classic Legendary Store - Remaining 5*s and All older 4*s

This has been suggested a number of times and is still as flawed as the first time it was suggested, forcing people to choose between which 5*s and which 4*s they want to collect is almost arbitrary and unnecessary a limitation as the vaulting decision when an even simpler solution would be two versions of each LT (one with newest 12 and one with all 4*s including that 12) as then people could get the 4*s and 5*s they want.

Except its how they treat 5*s today .......

And have for a long time now so to say that is the reason not to do it is a bit insane - where are the threads from before BH complaining all 5*s weren't in both tokens?

Crowl

alphabeta wrote:

Except its how they treat 5*s today .......

And have for a long time now so to say that is the reason not to do it is a bit insane - where are the threads from before BH complaining all 5*s weren't in both tokens?

5*s are the headline act in the tokens and the reason why people choose to pay a premium and people should be able to focus on the 5*s that they want without being forced to lose out on the 4*s that they also want.

alphabeta

Crowl wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

Except its how they treat 5*s today .......

And have for a long time now so to say that is the reason not to do it is a bit insane - where are the threads from before BH complaining all 5*s weren't in both tokens?

5*s are the headline act in the tokens and the reason why people choose to pay a premium and people should be able to focus on the 5*s that they want without being forced to lose out on the 4*s that they also want.

If you are in a 5* meta the 4*s are irrelevant but for the rewards they offer as championed levels - want to chase the new shiny thing at any level go chase latest - want to fill out existing characters in the game focus on classics.

May not be a perfect solution but its 1000 times better than any the devs seem to be considering from the post above.

Crowl

alphabeta wrote:

Crowl wrote:

alphabeta wrote:

Except its how they treat 5*s today .......

And have for a long time now so to say that is the reason not to do it is a bit insane - where are the threads from before BH complaining all 5*s weren't in both tokens?

5*s are the headline act in the tokens and the reason why people choose to pay a premium and people should be able to focus on the 5*s that they want without being forced to lose out on the 4*s that they also want.

If you are in a 5* meta the 4*s are irrelevant but for the rewards they offer as championed levels - want to chase the new shiny thing at any level go chase latest - want to fill out existing characters in the game focus on classics.

May not be a perfect solution but its 1000 times better than any the devs seem to be considering from the post above.

Better than the devs options is a fairly low bar to be aiming at though and an entirely unnecessary one when the vastly simpler option of two versions of each LT is there instead that avoids the issue entirely.

Dauthi

After playing with it thus far and giving it a chance (continuing to open tokens like crazy) it has ultimately harmed my progress forcing me to save CP instead of using it on my own terms.

On one hand I am developing new 4*s faster than ever before, which is really exciting. Usually it would take a lot longer. On this front they definitely solved the problem. Unfortunately because of this I am right back to having too many characters ready to be championed, but no ISO, when it used to be balanced (by the time I had ISO a 4* would be ready). This means it's right back to hoarding CP again. Opening tokens is fun, don't force me to stop or face penalties.

I'm also getting a lot more waste than I used to since I am pulling dupes of the new 4*s of colors I don't need constantly. In the previous system I would rarely pull a new character cover, so that gave me time to build them up through other means like vaults and events making their colors well rounded. Pulling old championed 4*s, while not exciting, was fine since they provided ISO, CP, HP, and tokens all needed to continue to finish 4*s and build champions even faster.

Right now I am stuck with 10 covers of 4* waste in my locker that will be sold for 1k ISO, which is a new high in a year or so, maybe longer. So, the new system has me building new 4*s faster, but diminished my resources to champion them in the process.

Daredevil217

Dauthi wrote:

After playing with it thus far and giving it a chance (continuing to open tokens like crazy) it has ultimately harmed my progress forcing me to save CP instead of using it on my own terms.

On one hand I am developing new 4*s faster than ever before, which is really exciting. Usually it would take a lot longer. On this front they definitely solved the problem. Unfortunately because of this I am right back to having too many characters ready to be championed, but no ISO, when it used to be balanced (by the time I had ISO a 4* would be ready). This means it's right back to hoarding CP again. Opening tokens is fun, don't force me to stop or face penalties.

I'm also getting a lot more waste than I used to since I am pulling dupes of the new 4*s of colors I don't need constantly. In the previous system I would rarely pull a new character cover, so that gave me time to build them up through other means like vaults and events making their colors well rounded. Pulling old championed 4*s, while not exciting, was fine since they provided ISO, CP, HP, and tokens all needed to continue to finish 4*s and build champions even faster.

Right now I am stuck with 10 covers of 4* waste in my locker that will be sold for 1k ISO, which is a new high in a year or so, maybe longer. So, the new system has me building new 4*s faster, but diminished my resources to champion them in the process.

This is something a lot of people predicted and were warning the people applauding the change about. 6th cover syndrome plus lack of Iso equals a lot of waste. Under the old system, dilution not only worked, but provided resources rather than sucking them dry in the form of champ levels for non-vaulted toons. Sad times indeed.

GurlBYE

As someone who never hoards, I've started hoarding CP too, the change is pretty poop.

I'm just gonna hoard CP buy out red Hulk and Iceman (will cost me roughly 1000) and then ride the rest of my transition out.

Maybe they should like multiple the CP rate by 1.5 till they come up with something?

Even the latest 12, I've already got spiderwoman at 4/5/1, so some wasteful pulls are coming soon.

(for reference she was roughly at 4/1/1 or so on the advent of the change)

Xenoberyll

It would be very helpful if new features where introduced with some time left to react instead of bringing the update to the game and then tell us on the forums about it.

I opened 264 latest legends tokens and had to sell at least 130+ 4 star covers. If i had known earlier i'd probably have opened my hoard before the update and most of those covers would be champ levels now.

Wumpushunter

Just boost the newest 12 in power levels so that they can compete with the old 4s this solves 1/2 your problem. But no nitpick small boosts that aren't even close to making them viable.

Hyposphere6234

Why would I care about being in a position of being able to max and champion the latest 12 4*s when the thirty that came before them has become so much harder?

My Nova is 2/1/2, the next LT token I open has a 1/12 chance of being a Mordo cover and zero chance on a Nova cover unless RNG x RNG = RNG.

I have six 4*s at 12 covers, I have many more not in the latest twelve needing a lot of covers. The latest twelve also needs lots of covers.

Why is vaulting a thing? My 2* to 3* transition involved none of this. It took me three months to get my thirteenth cover for 3* Cyclops after I had champed the last 3* in my roster before him (Before Thanos and the like before started to get introduced.)

My roster has developed pretty healthily before vaulting came into play. Of course during the 2* to 3* transition I got bad pulls. During the 3* to 4* transition I've gotten bad pulls. It's part of the RNG and I've learnt to accept that because of transitioning. Now I'm in the 3* to 4* transition you have nerfed and ruled out everything that went into the 2* to 3* transition because people act like they should be treated differently for getting a 4*/5* duplicate.

As I said, I'm in 3*/4* transitioning. I'm not complaining every time I receive a 2* from tokens. I'm just wondering why I've been debased purely because other people ahead of me are whining about not getting the toy they want.

I don't know why the development team need to discuss this. You have Classic tokens and Latest tokens.

Put the latest 5* and 4* in the Latest, put the rest in Classic. Rebalance the CP if necessary. If people are devoted to levelling up the new characters they will spend the few extra CP for it.

Also the inclusion of nerfing the Heroic Tokens has turned this from being a terrible decision into a down right idiotic one. I understand that you want to keep your current player base happy but you've also ensured that new players won't get the same experience that have kept many of us playing up until now. This decision has killed off potential and chance revenue. Myself, and I'm sure many others, have spent some investment to achieve a potential cover. Myself and many others have missed out.

What's the point when you're restricted in the covers that you will receive for the cover that you're aiming for? Especially when you're guaranteed a cover for the character you're not trying to recieve one for and only have a small chance of attaining of a bonus cover even though it's not guaranteed that it's the cover that you need.

Do whatever you want Demiurge, you need to pay your bills. I know the £8 I fund monthly has no voice over someone paying £80 on an almost daily basis makes me scum.

Alsmir

Any updates?

After discovering The Elder Scrolls: Legends, I'm down to just completing DDQ and even that starts to feel pointless.


It's really discouraging when devs are so quick to implement massive changes to the gameplay, but take a looong time to deal with issues that they created.



What's the status on shield intercepts (or something similar) for Steam users? Still under investigation? Intercepts made me go completely f2p, after spending money 2-3 times/month in the past. Vaulting might make me quit for good, nice job.

GrimSkald

Wumpushunter wrote:

Just boost the newest 12 in power levels so that they can compete with the old 4s this solves 1/2 your problem. But no nitpick small boosts that aren't even close to making them viable.

You're kidding, right? Peggy is arguably the best 4* in the game, Carol absolutely rocks, and Medusa is, almost certainly, the best at what she does (and what she does best is handle special tiles.) Wasp has been boosted to be nearly top tier, if not solidly top-tier.

Blade is solid (been playing him a lot in the PVE - he's got the strengths and weaknesses of the 3* Blade. If you can get a red-rich board, you'll destroy your opponent. Otherwise he kind of sits and whines. But still, that's solid.) Spider-Woman is ok - not great but good when boosted. Luke is also solid.

I don't have a firm idea on Riri, Mordo, Agent Venom, and Coulson, but my general impressions on them are is so-so, a bit better, not as bad as you think he is, and either really good or downright top-tier, respectively.

This is a pretty solid group of characters. Not all of them are winners, but about what you'd expect (if not more) out of a random set are. I'd say 60% of them are better than average.

Alsmir

GrimSkald wrote:

Wumpushunter wrote:

Just boost the newest 12 in power levels so that they can compete with the old 4s this solves 1/2 your problem. But no nitpick small boosts that aren't even close to making them viable.

You're kidding, right? Peggy is arguably the best 4* in the game, Carol absolutely rocks, and Medusa is, almost certainly, the best at what she does (and what she does best is handle special tiles.) Wasp has been boosted to be nearly top tier, if not solidly top-tier.

Blade is solid (been playing him a lot in the PVE - he's got the strengths and weaknesses of the 3* Blade. If you can get a red-rich board, you'll destroy your opponent. Otherwise he kind of sits and whines. But still, that's solid.) Spider-Woman is ok - not great but good when boosted. Luke is also solid.

I don't have a firm idea on Riri, Mordo, Agent Venom, and Coulson, but my general impressions on them are is so-so, a bit better, not as bad as you think he is, and either really good or downright top-tier, respectively.

This is a pretty solid group of characters. Not all of them are winners, but about what you'd expect (if not more) out of a random set are. I'd say 60% of them are better than average.

That's cool and everything, but if I'm looking for my first 4* champ (and scaling jump) I want a top tier, not just above average. Peggy might be good enough, but she will roatate out before I have the chance to cover her. Then what? Hoard or get stuck in endless cycle of almost covering latest characters?

Wjohnson992

An even simpler move would be to reduce the ridiculous 120CP cost of a 4* cover. Down to maybe 60CP? Since this came in my roster progression has smashed into a brick wall. Like yay Agent Venom and Riri got better but my Rulk and Iceman are abysmal and no real hope of improvement. I've only got one 4* Bonus (Jean which was welcome) since it came in so if this is meant to "help" it simply doesnt. Unless I'm willing to do multiple Stark buys I will never get the "best" characters.


The gap between vets and newer players became larger than ever. I accepted I'd never get a working OML but now 3/4 of 4*'s are unobtainable its depressing. Maybe vets can feel agrieved they cant add levels to their champed behomoths but for new players they will likely never even champ them, let alone get them near any competitive level. Your Rulk and 4clops will still keep you at the top while newbies are stuck at the bottom. This needs fixing.

NewMcG

Alsmir wrote:

That's cool and everything, but if I'm looking for my first 4* champ (and scaling jump) I want a top tier, not just above average. Peggy might be good enough, but she will roatate out before I have the chance to cover her. Then what? Hoard or get stuck in endless cycle of almost covering latest characters?

Then pick someone like Carol, who is a monster and isn't rotating out anytime soon. Would you really have a great chance of covering any particular older "top tier" character by drawing tokens that include 40+ 4*s? If you think you'll only get to "almost cover" when you pull from a pool of 12 characters, then I don't know what to tell you about trying to catch up on covering characters out of a group of 50 of them.

Magic

It's been another week and I still don't like the system. And my math is saying that dilution was not an issue if you played regularly. The issue was (for some) that you couldn't get the new and shiny fast enough, not overall dilution. Why do I claim that?

Kate and Moonknight rotated out first. I have Kate championed and Moonknight at 5-2-5. He will stay there till his cover is not part of PvP or PvE progression.

Peggy will rotate out next. She is championed (granted I have emptied taco vault to get final two covers but I have her championed for a while).

Wasp and Spider-Woman will rotate next. Wasp is championed (had her covered, championed after the buff) and Spider-Woman is maxed covered (with 2 more dying on the vine now as I doubt I will champion her).

After that it's Luke Cage and Gwenpool. Cage is max covered (with 14th on the vine and ready to champion) and Gwenpool is 5-3-4 - so almost max covered.

After that it's the more recent ones:
Blade 2-3-3
Agent Venom 1-5-5
Medusa 5-3-3
Captain Marvel - championed (but i went all in for release event with top5 finish and then some)
Riri Williams 1-4-4
Mordo 1-1-4
Agent Coulson 1-2-3

See the trend? They are getting well and evenly covered by playing regularly. How many did I get since the vaulting - just a couple as I had no luck with the heroics and didn't have a big hoard to open with CP. I guess I've got an extra Medusa, Blade, couple of Venoms and Riri (on top of the SW and Cage on the vine currently that could have been something else.

I was getting the covers in a good rate compared to the ISO needs. Now I have to sell covers or hoard. Don't like it!

Daredevil217

Magic wrote:

And my math is saying that dilution was not an issue if you played regularly. The issue was (for some) that you couldn't get the new and shiny fast enough, not overall dilution.

Truth.

I'm an early to mid 4* transitioner and never had a problem with dilution. I had zero chance at the new shiny being usable but i was still collecting covers faster than characters were being released while amassing almost THREE MILLION ISO (at one point... now it's down to around 750k). When I got my 13th Falcap I leveled him to 270 and he was a new shiny toy for me as I had never played him before. Same for one I got Hulkbuster WAY after his release. Same for X-Force. And as an added bonus I got to read well-formed opinions on them as the whales (and even non-whales for the older toons) have had them for a long time and they were in the character rankings, etc.

The best solution for the problem of dilution and gotta have it now is to keep the latest legends as it is and everything else as it was. Problems solved. Those who want the new shiny or to draw from a smaller pool have a direct access route and those who don't can keep playing the way they have enjoyed.

Uthgarprime

Vaulting was done solely to generate sales of ISO or HP, or both. They are hoping we are enticed to buy ISO to champion a character before they leave the current token or covers expire. If you think they are going to change this in a manner that in anyway benefits the players you are not going to be happy. Their solution will involve monatization in some manner. That is if they even change anything. I wouldn't be surprised if they just keep feeding us the "we are looking into it" line until we stop complaining. I can see that happen since they act like this is real complicated when its really simple.